Is RedBull & McLaren teaching a lesson to Ferrari?

[LeonKennedy]

If I myself had to define the approach that every of these teams has to the sport, I would say that Ferrari has a "competitive, classic, historical, passional, conservative" approach, while I would put McLaren and specially RBR in a more "innovative, fresh, young, technologic, brave" approach.

And I feel like this formula of ours has to change. It seems to no longer work. I feel RBR & McLaren are having the right approach.

They risk it, they are being brave in pushing the rules to the limit, they are being creative and innovative, I don't know, they have this "young" team aura.

I envy that. I would rather have a bad season for trying to innovate too much, or risking it too much than for being "conservative". I think the latest innovation we did was to change the lollypop for a lightstop...

Hell, we are Ferrari, we must be teaching them how it's done, and it is being otherwise right now. My personal view anyway.

Am I right or what?

[scuderiafan]

Agree, but what would you take?

MP4 18, or F2004

Cos the McLaren was so innovative it could never be raced, while the F2004 was quite conservative. But the reason being, why change what works?

so, yes. I agree completely with you. if we have problemor defecit, we should be trying everything, and not just copying.

[burak karakutuk]

Yes right,i totally agree with you mate.As i said before old days we were teaching how does a f1 car desing,latest techs,inventions...Ferrari has to change their approach with taking risks.But not su much risk a little is enough.Because the biggest risk is dont take any risk.

[burak karakutuk]

To be creatitive,to see what they cant see,to find what they cant,to have what they dont...
Not tobe agresivve a lot.We are not in a competition like car's beauty.So all we need is to be creatitive just it

[tifosi_kaka]

I have to object against it, sometimes bearing too big an 'ego' can pull you back. Of course Ferrari has been the most successful name in F1, but that doesn't mean that it must keep winning all the time. There must be ups and downs. Think back, before 2000, we even had a 21-year drought without a single Championship. So during those 21 years did Williams, Renault, Honda, McLaren etc 'taught us many lessons'?

I agree that the team did not exploit the rules enough, or did not manage to come up with bright ideas. But these things are easier said than done. I would rather say that the team did not analyse the situation correctly. It has been obvious now that despite the ban of the DD, higher weight limit and weight distribution rules, the cars are actually going as fast as last year, if not faster. The team had said that they are satisfied with winter testing, and they were happy with the car, but what was the benchmark that they used to compare the car's performance to? It could have been that the problems were there since day 1, only that the team used a benchmark that was too low so that the car looked ok. So it is again another lesson for the team, that they should always look for solutions to recover the lost time due to rule changes, and unless practically impossible, always look to make a car go faster than last year, as is the case with most teams this year.

[TIFOSI_FERRARI]

Really, I'm missing Rory Byrne Very match, all what This Happened to us , is because of Aldo Costa , we need to cut off his head

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Really, I'm missing Rory Byrne Very match, all what This Happened to us , is because of Aldo Costa , we need to cut off his head

Please lets get a sense of perspective this is a sport, you do not need to go around cutting off people's heads

[Sianellen]

Really, I'm missing Rory Byrne Very match, all what This Happened to us , is because of Aldo Costa , we need to cut off his head

We're not the Tudors hehe.

[xpman]

if you gona lose people like rory and gilles you MUST replace for like .They better get this car sorted or 2012 will be down the .... as well coz if they cant get 2011 car to work with 5 K of Track testing then something Seriouly wrong.

[aroutis]

Off with their heads then?



It's nice to read these threads, get a chuckle off some of the posts...

But seriously, some truth does come out of them. Yes, we do miss the brilliance of Rory Byrne and there 's no reason in denying it. And while at it, I have to admit that we , being the team with the most mileage and having worked with the 2011 car the most should have put our heads in gear around concepts regarding the rules a bit more. Be bold. And while -perhaps, I am not that sure- the F2004 was a bit on the concervative side , the F2002 which was "plain" to the looks was ANYTHING BUT that and even Michael came to say that it was like a UFO in regards to the competition.

What I am trying to say is that if we want to get back to the winning ways (and by that I mean WDC AND WCC) we do need an F2002 and NOT an F2004...

[burak karakutuk]

What is your ideas about new tyres?Is there any possibility that we are in a danger with Pirelli's?Because gap is huge,look at top two teams,they are close but rest?.Maybe they find a way to setup better than everyone else especially in qualy.Race stinst are not too slow.I remember Jenson said "we have succeed to run new tyres in simulations"

[crewskas]

I miss the Rory-Jean-Ross combination...
Smart decisions in and out of track and smart design...

Anyway, won't happen again though, so I hope Luca will find fresh blood...

[luicchi]

Yes. Red bull teach the lesson of being not conservative , not being afraid to take risks and be creative. MCL teached us that yes we must be proud even if it goes against our preconceived ideas , if we cannot do it then learn with the others and upgrade their ideas.

[Greig]

What do Red Bull have that is considered a risk and creative?

[Agron]

I wish they were teaching lessons, that would mean we learn and can match them soon, what they are doing now is pasting Ferrari. Anyway, the fact they hired McLaren's chief developer points to them realizing they need to make changes in their approach to management and development.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Ferrari will fight for both championships.

[luicchi]

What do Red Bull have that is considered a risk and creative?

The risk to flex the wing andnot being afraid of FIA rules, and the creation of that development for instance.

[Greig]

flexing wings are hardly new though, been around long before Red Bull

[luicchi]

flexing wings are hardly new though, been around long before Red Bull

Yes but did anyone else did it this year early or last year early???Go flexing as hell???

[Phantom]

What I miss MOST are the years we would start races with our previous year car and still win a few races. They were the most awesome years !!!

[steelstallions]

What I miss MOST are the years we would start races with our previous year car and still win a few races. They were the most awesome years !!!

Now those are years when you really teach the rest a lesson. Ferrari's old car was still better than the others latest offering and the others wet themselves knowing that an even faster Ferrari is soon going to make its maiden race ..............YEP I miss those years big time

[FerrariF60]

Now those are years when you really teach the rest a lesson. Ferrari's old car was still better than the others latest offering and the others wet themselves knowing that an even faster Ferrari is soon going to make its maiden race ..............YEP I miss those years big time

+1....those were the good old years; don't think we'll see those again, for a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time, not if unlimited testing is still BANNED...

[Corey]

+1....those were the good old years; don't think we'll see those again, for a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time, not if unlimited testing is still BANNED...

Sorry, but I forgot. Why was unlimited testing banned? Was this another one from Stephen Hawking's mastermind?

[vcs316]

Sorry, but I forgot. Why was unlimited testing banned? Was this another one from Stephen Hawking's mastermind?

Cost cutting

[antitomm]

yes but most teams abandoned the flexi wing idea after more stringent rules kicked in this year... redbull did not. Besides that Redbull are running more rake than anyone else which is accentuating the effect of their wing... i think its a new direction that they have taken.

[chris26]

Really, I'm missing Rory Byrne Very match, all what This Happened to us , is because of Aldo Costa , we need to cut off his head

+1000

sigh... those years are history but i hope history will repeat itself again.,, please bring back testing.. i think this rule was a made especially for ferrari because we can test at our own track without paying for the track itself, other teams are just envious..