Williams to run seamless gearbox in Bahrain

[Greig]

Williams have given the green light to running their seamless shift gearbox from the start of the season, autosport.com has learned. The team originally designed their new Cosworth-powered FW28 with the system, which allows gear changes to take place with minimal power loss, but were unsure about whether it would be reliable enough to start the season with.

Technical director Sam Michael made it clear at the launch of the team's new car in January that the team would only race the seamless shift gearbox if it was sure it would last a full Grand Prix distance. Following extensive testing, the team have been convinced about the gearbox's durability and sources have revealed that they have opted to use the system from the season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix.

"We are comfortable with its progression," said a Williams insider.

As a back-up, the team had the option of reverting to a standard gearbox if the seamless system was not reliable enough.

Team co-founder Patrick Head said at the car launch: "It is new technology for us and we are debugging it. "We have got a backstop which is the same gearbox but in a slightly different configuration, but because the seamless is faster that is what we are planning to be racing."

[Greig]

Ok is this a new thing in F1, are they the first to run a race with it? I guess other teams have probably tried this, also how much of a gain will this bring?

Or scrap all that if everyone else has it :

[coysht]

It's not new at all.

Team have been playing with the concept for 3 or 4 years and I'm sure BAR had one of these last season or before.

Plus the Williams one has been cooking itself on a regular basis in Winter testing.

[S.F. 1]

What about Ferrari and McLaren ? Certainly the latter has been doing some research in it.

[TO FAST]

does anybody know how they work in detail?

[coysht]

Originally posted by S.F. 1
What about Ferrari and McLaren ? Certainly the latter has been doing some research in it.

McLaren had their twin clutch pre-selector on the 18, and I believe had some sort of seemless or semi-seemless shift 'box on the 20 (posibly the 19 as well).

There have been rumours that Ferrari have had something in this area (hence the gearbox failiures on the F2005) but noone really knows.

[Tobes]

Is it the same principle as the Audi DSG.....?

[Cavallino Rosso]

Originally posted by Tobes
Is it the same principle as the Audi DSG.....?

I thought Ferrari's was a DSG type system with 2 clutches? I may be wrong though!

[coysht]

I thought the DSG type double cutch thing had been abannoned by most if not all teams as it was not hugely effcient, bit on the heavy side and didn't actually work that well.

The 'seemless' shift 'boxes they have now work reasonably differently, but I'll have to find out exactly how they work.

[Greig]

So if it aint new and BAR has ran it, does that mean its not going to gain them anything? or is it just very tricky to make it reliable therefore meaning the gain is not worth the risk? And yeah how do they work?

[S.F. 1]

Michael at the launch of the FW28: ''Most teams are moving towards having a seamless gearbox and a lot of them will use it in races in 2006. I think that in twelve months time we are all driving it, that's why this step in this area isn't too big''

It's said the gain is 4 tenths a lap !

[Greig]

4 tenths a lap!! thats massive gains

[coysht]

Originally posted by Greig
So if it aint new and BAR has ran it, does that mean its not going to gain them anything? or is it just very tricky to make it reliable therefore meaning the gain is not worth the risk? And yeah how do they work?

If it works it will gain time for Williams, but its not a new concept.

There is talk of them gaining 0.4 seconds per lap from it, and if they're actually getting it to last now, it sounds like its worth racing with.

[Rudilio]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know anything more about the seamless gearbox? What is the technical concept behind it? How much does it improve laptimes?

And how far is Ferrari from developing one they can use during races? Williams are going to bring theirs to Bahrein, and perhaps even use it during te race!

Does anyone know??

Thanx
Rudilio

[Greig]

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...threadid=13320

[Tobes]

So how does it work.....?

[Luca de Montezuma]

Seamlessly.

[Tobes]

Originally posted by Luca de Montezuma
Seamlessly.

: : :


I s'pose you think you're funny.....

[Luca de Montezuma]

Couldn't resist!


OK, try this.

http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cf...7&view=low_res

Answers on a postcard.........

[Tobes]

Originally posted by Luca de Montezuma
OK, try this.

http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cf...7&view=low_res

Answers on a postcard.

Does it have two clutches....?

One for the odd gears and reverse and one for the even gears...?

If so, very similar to the DSG then...?

[Luca de Montezuma]

T'was just a suggestion.

I have as many questions as you.


I'd be surprised if it gives 0.4 secs per typical lap. Surprise me, someone, please.

Then there's the reliabilty question.

[MrMan]

I was under the impression a twin clutch setup is banned in F1 by the rules? Plus I thought the FIA said gearboxes have a minimum time to make gearshifts?

[coysht]

Originally posted by MrMan
I was under the impression a twin clutch setup is banned in F1 by the rules? Plus I thought the FIA said gearboxes have a minimum time to make gearshifts?

They're not, and I'm sure we went through this before and found that there isnt.

[coysht]

Originally posted by Luca de Montezuma
Couldn't resist!


OK, try this.

http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cf...7&view=low_res

Answers on a postcard.........

Judging by the URL, I'm guessing that actually is a DSG.

Still pretty sure that alot of (if not all of) the F1 gearboxes that achieve near to seemless shifts don't use two clutches.

[Tobes]

Originally posted by coysht
Still pretty sure that alot of (if not all of) the F1 gearboxes that achieve near to seemless shifts don't use two clutches.

Can i ask you why you're pretty sure about that.....?

[MrMan]

Originally posted by Tobes
Can i ask you why you're pretty sure about that.....?

Simply because a twin clutch gearbox would be bigger than a single clutch because you need 2 clutch packs and 2 barrels. The gearboxes have been getting smaller and smaller, we'd notice in pics if it got bigger or wider.

[coysht]

Martin Brundle just seemed to indicate (on quali coverage) that twin clutch gearboxes are not allowed.

[hudson77]

Did he not also mention that even with seamless gearboxes the teams have to show a loss of power during a gear change ? I will go watch again but either brundle or allen sain that am sure.......

[coysht]

Originally posted by hudson77
Did he not also mention that even with seamless gearboxes the teams have to show a loss of power during a gear change ? I will go watch again but either brundle or allen sain that am sure.......

Not a loss in power, but a brake in it.
ie there must be some small interuption to the drive to the rear wheels - in alot of cases this is literally as long as it takes the gears to move from one ratio position to another.

[hudson77]

Sorry about that coyhst yes you are right he does say that there has to be a small interuption, but is hardly recognisable.