German GP Race Thread

**Greig** · 24th July 2011, 18:43

Originally Posted by Tech_Skill

Felipe is still getting outqualified by the same margin nearly every week isnt he, which is at the moment about 0.5 of a sec on average.

And about the mark liking the harder tyres.....he is outqualifying/neck and neck seb on the soft tyres no? even before they slightly tweaked the compound for this race? Not sure how much of it can be explained away with tyres.

From what I have heard. and mark kind of sliently hinted at it today in his interview with Jake, he is happy to stay at RB, but he wants assurances he is getting 100% equal treatment, they may have the same parts on the car, but you wonder about the mapping settings and how much of an advantage they are to vettel rather than mark.

There was no tweak for this race, Webber said he wanted harder tyres as it helps him on the BBC pre-race so I dunno if he was being stupid or not

**Tech_Skill** · 24th July 2011, 18:45

Originally Posted by scuderiafan

did the protests last year stop Ferrari having a bendy wing, but RB managed to find something smart? i seem to remember this was when the bendy wing stopped.

Red bull seemed to be able to keep beating the FIA load test when it comes to the front wing. Im non technical, but a freind of mine is techy, he said something about the way in which red bull layer the carbon fibre sheets which make up the wings that allows it to flex under load or something like that.

Then, you also have the rake the red bull has also, which I think means air pushes the front wing down when it travels over it????

**Tech_Skill** · 24th July 2011, 18:48

Originally Posted by Greig

There was no tweak for this race, Webber said he wanted harder tyres as it helps him on the BBC pre-race so I dunno if he was being stupid or not

Ahhh they only used the new tyres for practice and not the race then?
http://www.formula1onlive.com/2011/0...-tyre-for.html

Even so, webber is still outqualifying seb on the soft tyres, the same soft tyres he was getting beat up by vettel earlier on the year.

**FerrariF60** · 24th July 2011, 18:49

Originally Posted by scuderiafan

fun fact!

Ferrari have outscored McLaren in the WCC since Valencia now, and RedBull since Silverstone!

good job guys. if this was may, Ferrari would have been lapped twice probably. this was bad, bad conditions, and McLarens best conditions. well done on them to win, but to be just as fast means that the Ferrari is extremelt fast, and it WAS the upgrades in Silverstone.

Hungary, should be good, but correct me if im wrong.

did the protests last year stop Ferrari having a bendy wing, but RB managed to find something smart? i seem to remember this was when the bendy wing stopped.

Mechanicla grip, the car is good there, and aero is almost there with the bulls.

i think with the better and warmer temps in hungary, along with teh soft and supersoft tires as well as some new upgrades we're gonna have ( on an already fast car) we should be good for a podium there
and if Alonso smells a WIN, we all know he's gonna drive the heck outta of those wheels and Ferrari of his...

**Tech_Skill** · 24th July 2011, 18:50

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

i think with the better and warmer temps in hungary, along with teh soft and supersoft tires as well as some new upgrades we're gonna have ( on an already fast car) we should be good for a podium there
and if Alonso smells a WIN, we all know he's gonna drive the heck outta of those wheels and Ferrari of his...

Does anyone know what upgrades are planned for next week and what upgrades we had this week?

**scuderiafan** · 24th July 2011, 18:52

Front wing, i think. maybe some rear wing/diffuser, but i doubt it.

only Spa could be a problem for Ferrari now. and that surely wont be as cold as this.

**Greig** · 24th July 2011, 18:55

Originally Posted by Tech_Skill

Ahhh they only used the new tyres for practice and not the race then?
http://www.formula1onlive.com/2011/0...-tyre-for.html

Even so, webber is still outqualifying seb on the soft tyres, the same soft tyres he was getting beat up by vettel earlier on the year.

Maybe it's just taken him this long to adapt, cause he is not that good

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 19:04

Good day for Ferrari. Stop crying about the bad pitstop time of Massa in the end. happens, but overall pitstop times of Ferrari today were very good. It is always quite a lottery when 2 drivers pitting in same lap. Fernando 2nd race in a row infront of the 2 Red Bulls is the fact that should make every fan of the Scuderia smiling. Hungary, Belgium, Italy are races where Ferrari will dominate RBs. Let the season begin :)

**Tech_Skill** · 24th July 2011, 19:09

Originally Posted by FER

Good day for Ferrari. Stop crying about the bad pitstop time of Massa in the end. happens,

Massa has been getting screwed on stratedgy for a while now, very bad to continuously see this kind of thing time and again from Ferrari. Anything other than a bone dry sunny race with no major changes in stratedgy and you expect us to mess up at least once per race. NOT acceptable.

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 19:17

Originally Posted by Tech_Skill

Massa has been getting screwed on stratedgy for a while now, very bad to continuously see this kind of thing time and again from Ferrari. Anything other than a bone dry sunny race with no major changes in stratedgy and you expect us to mess up at least once per race. NOT acceptable.

I only wrote about the bad pitting of Massa and nothing else. Sorry, but the situation was pure lottery, where 1-2 tenths are crucial. I insist Ferrari crew did great job today.

**scuderiafan** · 24th July 2011, 19:18

Originally Posted by FER

Good day for Ferrari. Stop crying about the bad pitstop time of Massa in the end. happens, but overall pitstop times of Ferrari today were very good. It is always quite a lottery when 2 drivers pitting in same lap. Fernando 2nd race in a row infront of the 2 Red Bulls is the fact that should make every fan of the Scuderia smiling. Hungary, Belgium, Italy are races where Ferrari will dominate RBs. Let the season begin :)

i agree somewhat, but it is getting frustrating.

**Tech_Skill** · 24th July 2011, 19:19

Originally Posted by FER

I only wrote about the bad pitting of Massa and nothing else. Sorry, but the situation was pure lottery, where 1-2 tenths are crucial. I insist Ferrari crew did great job today.

Hey, you are very welcome to your opnion, I just think that Ferrari have been poor in the pits for a while now, this isnt a one off, red bull is more reliable in this area than us by some distance imo, despite being prone to the odd mistake themselves.

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 19:23

Getting frustrating? We struggled behind hopelessly for some races and now Alonso is somehow back in the fight.

**Greig** · 24th July 2011, 19:24

Pit stop should not be a lottery, Felipe had defended that position so well it's such a shame to lose it in the pitlane

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 19:30

But it is a lottery in such situations, when 2 drivers are pitting in the same time. Mechanics are humans and cannot be so consistently to ensure relialble times within 0.1 sec, no matter how good they are.

**MRRabbit** · 24th July 2011, 19:32

not many years ago that i dreaded warm temperatures now it's the other way around

**epiclyaddicted** · 24th July 2011, 19:33

Brilliant race today. In terms of pure pace, we out-raced both the Red Bulls today, which in those cold conditions is not a light achievement.

Shame about the botched pit stop at the end, but I thought this was by far Massa's best race drive this season. He overtook both the Red Bulls, fought hard with Vettel most of the race, and without the mistake by the pit crew, managed to hold him off.

Another faultless drive from Alonso. What made the difference between him and Hamilton in my opinion was Ferrari's inability to switch the tyres on straight away in those conditions, something which McLaren is very good at. Despite that, the fact that he finished a strong 2nd shows how much the car has improved over the last few races. With Fry and Tombazis saying there are more upgrades in the pipeline, we are certainly looking very good for the remainder of this season.

As much as I hate him, credit where credit's due, Hamilton drove brilliantly today and deserved to win the race. And as Alonso said, the McLarens taking points off Red Bull is no bad thing for us.

In terms of sheer pace, third was the best Red Bull could have hoped for today, and Webber made the most of what he could. However, I thought Vettel's drive was pretty poor today. After the race, when I tweeted that Vettel can't handle traffic, it generated some mixed responses, but I still think that Vettel has a lot to prove yet about his race-craft skills, when he is not just running away in the lead with a car that's easily a second a lap quicker than the rest of the field. I don't rate him as an ordinary by any means, he certainly is a special talent, but there is still a lot to be desired. I'm talking of Button's drive at Interlagos 2009 for instance, something like that from Vettel would certainly make me warm up to him much more. Time will tell.

Going back to Ferrari, and the car in particular, it's interesting to see how we have caught up on Red Bull. For the last year and a half, they have had an aerodynamic advantage over us, but we have had some strengths over them, for instance in straight line speed. But it's now clear that with us having caught them on the aero side, we can challenge and push them at any track. If the Championship was to start at Valencia, there only could have been one World Champion this season, and that would be Alonso. Plus, with EBDs banned for next season, we are certainly looking good there because unlike Red Bull, our car was not originally designed around the EBD, so it wouldn't be as much of a change for us as it would be for them. That's my opinion anyway.

Looking forward to Hungary next weekend, I cannot wait! With the warmer temperatures there, we should very much be able to challenge for pole and possibly a double podium finish, if not a 1-2 victory. It certainly doesn't look impossible by the evidence of the last three races!

So roll on Hungaroring, and Forza Ferrari!

**Poltergeistes** · 24th July 2011, 20:05

You know it's bad and not up to ferrari's standards when you see fans saying that they "expect" the pit stop crew to make at least one mistake per race, ok Felipe isn't fighting for a championship right now, but the fact remains, ferrari used to be the most reliable team when it came to pitstops, yes we understand they are only humans, and on that aspect i for one would expect and accept if our pit crew isn't the fastest, if they are maybe half a second slower than mclaren and redbull, but what's really troubling is the amount of mistakes, where something will be stuck, or a tyre isn't tight enough, or when they release the car when they shouldn't.

Right now these mistakes aren't costing us championships, but at the rate this is going, it's only a matter of time before it happens. we can't have the drivers driving perfect races, making daring overtakes like felipe did today, or extracting the max from the car like fernando did today, and then they go to pit, and they make a mistake, and suddenly all the hard work they've been putting together for some 20 laps is all thrown away.

Again yes it's human to make mistakes, but we are doing it far too often, during pit stops we have been behaving like minardi rather than ferrari.

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 20:22

Excuse my english, obviously too bad for the standard here, but i try to explain one more time. Pit times can vary within 1 second, 3.2 to 4.2 are good to normal times. And think about how crucial are only 0.1-0.2 sec. lost when 2 drivers are pitting in the same time. You cannot put it on the mechanics. At least this time. I noticed very positive trend of our crew getting 3.2-3.5 pitstop times all the race.

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 20:26

Originally Posted by Poltergeistes

Again yes it's human to make mistakes, but we are doing it far too often, during pit stops we have been behaving like minardi rather than ferrari.

Remember Button last race, Vettel last race, Hamilton was screwed by his crew 2 times for some races. Dont be that dramatic, more pitstops mean more human mistakes and they happen everywhere, not only in our box.

**REDARMYSOJA** · 24th July 2011, 20:44

Originally Posted by FER

. Mechanics are humans and cannot be so consistently to ensure relialble times within 0.1 sec, no matter how good they are.

Hmmm...Maybe if they design robots to change the tires.

**Sianellen** · 24th July 2011, 20:53

Originally Posted by Poltergeistes

You know it's bad and not up to ferrari's standards when you see fans saying that they "expect" the pit stop crew to make at least one mistake per race, ok Felipe isn't fighting for a championship right now, but the fact remains, ferrari used to be the most reliable team when it came to pitstops, yes we understand they are only humans, and on that aspect i for one would expect and accept if our pit crew isn't the fastest, if they are maybe half a second slower than mclaren and redbull, but what's really troubling is the amount of mistakes, where something will be stuck, or a tyre isn't tight enough, or when they release the car when they shouldn't.

Right now these mistakes aren't costing us championships, but at the rate this is going, it's only a matter of time before it happens. we can't have the drivers driving perfect races, making daring overtakes like felipe did today, or extracting the max from the car like fernando did today, and then they go to pit, and they make a mistake, and suddenly all the hard work they've been putting together for some 20 laps is all thrown away.

Again yes it's human to make mistakes, but we are doing it far too often, during pit stops we have been behaving like minardi rather than ferrari.

I read this quote from Pat Fry suggesting that it is the nut that has been giving the pit crew a lot of issues this season, as apposed to multiple reasons for bad stops.

A shame, but we know we must work a lot on certain aspects of the car like the wheel nut, which has given us problems this season

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 20:58

Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA

Hmmm...Maybe if they design robots to change the tires.

The human factor is always good for a better show.

**Nova** · 24th July 2011, 21:14

Bernie's manipulating the whole show so we have a 5 way shootout for the WDC

**Greig** · 24th July 2011, 22:04

Originally Posted by FER

But it is a lottery in such situations, when 2 drivers are pitting in the same time. Mechanics are humans and cannot be so consistently to ensure relialble times within 0.1 sec, no matter how good they are.

other teams seem to manage quick consistent pit-stops to be fair

as it is then it was a problem with the wheel nut anyway which can happen to anyone, but on the whole our pit-stops do not need to be a lottery at all.

**FER** · 24th July 2011, 22:18

Quick consistent pit stops are those between 3 and 4 sec. 2 drivers fighting for position who both get in in the same lap can both have "quick consistent" pit stops and the one got in behind still can get out in front of the other, because his crew got 3.2 and the other guys "poor" 3.8. All the explanation in terms of you misunderstand my definition of "lottery". Ferrari mechanics did consistent 3.2-3.5 which is more than good and I notice a huge improvement in this area.

So there is no reason for blaming them

**FrankAlfa** · 25th July 2011, 00:14

Overall, Ferrari are very strong now and only lack in Qualifying a bit. Race Pace was very strong and Ferrari only lost time on the Medium Compound (Option) tire. Tire wear was very good and the Engine is very strong. Red Bull looked slightly down on race pace and Vettel was hampered by Brake troubles. In the end, any one of the top three had a shot at victory. Very Good race for Hamilton to show he can be more under control. Alonso drove a VERY STRONG race and he looks like the VERY BEST DRIVER on the race track. The Pitstops were just slightly imperfect for Ferrari and Ferrari seems no worse off then any other team. In the last few races, both Red Bull and McLaren have both had the same kind of variations and even worse, made clear errors in McLarens case, that have led to their driver retiring form a race.

So Ferrari had a very strong race and McLaren have proven their ability to fight back. On to Hungary where, if temperatures will be higher, should give Ferrari the edge.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!