Japanese GP- Race Thread

[Tifosi]

Since the accident in Budapest in 2009, and loosing WDC in last race in 2008, he has been different person. I don't find him strong enough like he was, for example when he was driving with Michael. At that time, I would say that Massa had better driver, but it is always hard to compare drivers, as a team mate in Michael than it is with Alonso. Not saying that Alonso is not great driver. He is. But he is regularly better positioned than Massa. He is always pulling that little more from car than Massa is doing. How come? Massa was there when great Michael was driving and winning five consecutive titles. Has he learned something from him? As I remember he was good at that time. He was beating Michael couple of times. It is hard to drive when is raining. Couple of them are real maestros. Massa definitely not! Remember British GP from couple a years ago? He had like 10 spins in one single race?!?!? How can remember everything. Any way, yes I confess I am little carried away with emotions, because we are collecting bigger points (podiums) with just one driver! Massa is really nice guy, and I like him, but he is a different driver now than he was before accident in Budapest in 2009.

When someone mentions Silverstone and Massa spinning as evidence of his supposed inability to drive in the wet I lose all respect for them as a fair-minded critic.

If you watch the replay of that race (have you?) you will find that Massa was not the only driver doing this. Also, it is clear that he had no grip on those tyres that day and that this was nothing to do with his wet race skills - which is born out by evidence of his other wet races as has been mentioned. Ironically - if he'd parked it instead of relentlessly trying at the risk of his own reputation - then maybe people like you wouldn't unjustly drag it out every so often to bash him other the head with it!

If you are such a keen Ferrari supporter I would have expected you to know that because it's usually the kind of thing a driver fan or McLaren fan would say - seeing as it an unfair representation, where the driver is not given the benefit of the doubt based on the available evidence.

Reminds me a little of Monaco this year when we had people ranting about Massa's crash whilst oblivious to the video evidence which showed that Lewis had pushed him onto the marbles in the tunnel and that there wasn't much he could realistically do to stop it as a result.

Massa outqualifying Fernando on occasion this year is obviously another example of his slowness and lack of commitment i guess. Quite difficult when the team sends you out to use your drag to try to "sling shot" their No. 1 driver up the grid during qualifying!

I know its easy to get emotional about the results of our team (although why you are aiming this at Massa at this point in time is a mystery to me) but it's always better to look at the balance of the issue really before calling for heads without reason.

We ALL know that Fred is the better driver but you won't find many people who are prepared to detail another driver who can better Massa as his team mate at the moment with solid reasoning behind it (the fact that you suggested Lewis is somewhat disturbing too).

Anyhoo, we all know what it's like to get emotional about Ferrari (except Kimi Raikkonen of course - but he had an excuse )

[stefa]

When someone mentions Silverstone and Massa spinning as evidence of his supposed inability to drive in the wet I lose all respect for them as a fair-minded critic.

If you watch the replay of that race (have you?) you will find that Massa was not the only driver doing this. Also, it is clear that he had no grip on those tyres that day and that this was nothing to do with his wet race skills - which is born out by evidence of his other wet races as has been mentioned. Ironically - if he'd parked it instead of relentlessly trying at the risk of his own reputation - then maybe people like you wouldn't unjustly drag it out every so often to bash him other the head with it!

If you are such a keen Ferrari supporter I would have expected you to know that because it's usually the kind of thing a driver fan or McLaren fan would say - seeing as it an unfair representation, where the driver is not given the benefit of the doubt based on the available evidence.

Reminds me a little of Monaco this year when we had people ranting about Massa's crash whilst oblivious to the video evidence which showed that Lewis had pushed him onto the marbles in the tunnel and that there wasn't much he could realistically do to stop it as a result.

Massa outqualifying Fernando on occasion this year is obviously another example of his slowness and lack of commitment i guess. Quite difficult when the team sends you out to use your drag to try to "sling shot" their No. 1 driver up the grid during qualifying!

I know its easy to get emotional about the results of our team (although why you are aiming this at Massa at this point in time is a mystery to me) but it's always better to look at the balance of the issue really before calling for heads without reason.

We ALL know that Fred is the better driver but you won't find many people who are prepared to detail another driver who can better Massa as his team mate at the moment with solid reasoning behind it (the fact that you suggested Lewis is somewhat disturbing too).

Anyhoo, we all know what it's like to get emotional about Ferrari (except Kimi Raikkonen of course - but he had an excuse )

ou are right about having two world class drivers at same team. That's why In Schumacher era we had EI and RB. Simply it is easier with them to obey team rules and let 1st driver take all the glory. Although Ferrari never said, and never will that there is No 1 sand No 2 driver in team. Even without saying that, it is obvious with whom there are aiming to win WDC. About having to top drivers in same team... It would be interesting to see how would Alonso and Vettel get along together. All of them are saying now that they don't have an problem with other one (Except obviously Masa and Hamilton ), but put them in same team, sparks will fly every where.
I am emotional about Ferrari, and I am sick of being smashed by Red Bulls, and now McLarens. I take it very hard, and very personal, both in winning and loosing. But now we are loosing quite often. I don't want Ferrari to get back in those dry ears (last WDC 1973 - year when I was born, up to Schumacher era). No! Call me pessimistic, but things don't look good now! This is our 4 consecutive year without title... I am sick of being told next year we will be prepared to fight back. This is Ferrari. They need to be prepared every year. These are high hopes, someone will say. Yes they are. And Ferrari is GREATEST F1 ever!
Once again I am apologizing to everyone to whom I have offended with my comments about Massa!!!

[Ant Raikkonen]

I thought the conversation between Vettel & Button was funny, in that room they go into to back-slap, back-stab eachother/other drivers & collect their Pirelli hats & expensive casio watches.

Actually, is there a name for that room i'm referring to? I'll call it the "canteen".

Lol @ Button "Oh, so that's how we're racing?" in response to Seb putting him onto the green stuff at the start. I though that SV was fine in doing that....it was fair game imo, it's good, clean-enough racing, just like i thought it was fair game at Monza when Fernando put SV on the grass .

The only difference was that there was more dust kicked up by Vettel at Monza

[Tifosi]

ou are right about having two world class drivers at same team. That's why In Schumacher era we had EI and RB. Simply it is easier with them to obey team rules and let 1st driver take all the glory. Although Ferrari never said, and never will that there is No 1 sand No 2 driver in team. Even without saying that, it is obvious with whom there are aiming to win WDC. About having to top drivers in same team... It would be interesting to see how would Alonso and Vettel get along together. All of them are saying now that they don't have an problem with other one (Except obviously Masa and Hamilton ), but put them in same team, sparks will fly every where.
I am emotional about Ferrari, and I am sick of being smashed by Red Bulls, and now McLarens. I take it very hard, and very personal, both in winning and loosing. But now we are loosing quite often. I don't want Ferrari to get back in those dry ears (last WDC 1973 - year when I was born, up to Schumacher era). No! Call me pessimistic, but things don't look good now! This is our 4 consecutive year without title... I am sick of being told next year we will be prepared to fight back. This is Ferrari. They need to be prepared every year. These are high hopes, someone will say. Yes they are. And Ferrari is GREATEST F1 ever!
Once again I am apologizing to everyone to whom I have offended with my comments about Massa!!!

I think we have suffered with rules changes since the Glory years. It seems to be tyres for us. We built a good car in 2005 IMO but the tyres stopped its true potential from being realised and it seems we have been relatively on the back foot ever since (including 2007) - when compared to those years. Obviously this is not just to do with tyres but the Pirellis seem to have caused us much grief too this season or at least in the early part of it.

You are sick of being told next year we will be prepared to fight back but at least it's true . I know what you mean with the frustration though. Personally i'm sick of us being unable to get heat into our tyres - that seems to have been going on for years It's hard to take as a fan but i'm sure it's harder for the team because we all know they don't take it easy and they know what is at stake.

The issue is that just because we had some glory years does not mean that we are entitled to more when other teams are doing a better job. Red Bull had a better car out of the box this year and McLaren did a better job turning theirs into one. Great teams have their blips - McLaren, Williams, Ferrari.

Whether or not we have addressed our issues with the new rules next season and have sussed out why we have the third fastest car can only remain to be seen but one thing is for sure IMO - we have the right drivers for 2012.

Let's hope it's a good one

[Tifosi]

I thought the conversation between Vettel & Button was funny, in that room they go into to back-slap, back-stab eachother/other drivers & collect their Pirelli hats & expensive casio watches.

Actually, is there a name for that room i'm referring to? I'll call it the "canteen".

Lol @ Button "Oh, so that's how we're racing?" in response to Seb putting him onto the green stuff at the start. I though that SV was fine in doing that....it was fair game imo, it's good, clean-enough racing, just like i thought it was fair game at Monza when Fernando put SV on the grass .

The only difference was that there was more dust kicked up by Vettel at Monza

it's called the "Annex to the totty corridor". You go up the steps, turn right past the 40 smiling women in tight lycra clapping at you in a confined space and you'll find it on the left just before the exit. It should be called the "Bling, water and sarcasm" room IMO.

One thing you have to say about JB is that he knows how to come across as a cool guy on camera (as opposed to a petulant arrogant rapper's groupie)

[Greig]

Seb seemed to mention Monza 400 times at least on the F1 forum

[epiclyaddicted]

One thing you have to say about JB is that he knows how to come across as a cool guy on camera (as opposed to a petulant arrogant rapper's groupie)

[stefa]

I think we have suffered with rules changes since the Glory years. It seems to be tyres for us. We built a good car in 2005 IMO but the tyres stopped its true potential from being realised and it seems we have been relatively on the back foot ever since (including 2007) - when compared to those years. Obviously this is not just to do with tyres but the Pirellis seem to have caused us much grief too this season or at least in the early part of it.

You are sick of being told next year we will be prepared to fight back but at least it's true . I know what you mean with the frustration though. Personally i'm sick of us being unable to get heat into our tyres - that seems to have been going on for years It's hard to take as a fan but i'm sure it's harder for the team because we all know they don't take it easy and they know what is at stake.

The issue is that just because we had some glory years does not mean that we are entitled to more when other teams are doing a better job. Red Bull had a better car out of the box this year and McLaren did a better job turning theirs into one. Great teams have their blips - McLaren, Williams, Ferrari.

Whether or not we have addressed our issues with the new rules next season and have sussed out why we have the third fastest car can only remain to be seen but one thing is for sure IMO - we have the right drivers for 2012.

Let's hope it's a good one

Let's hope we built SPEED DEVIL!!!

[scuderiafan]

maybe cause Alonso had been taken out by Button

i suppose , but even before that.

[Suzie]

Actually, is there a name for that room i'm referring to? I'll call it the "canteen".

It's the room where we get to see a sweaty Fernando pour a bottle of water over his head.
...That's all I need to know

[schumi1]

In the end it was a good result for Fernando.

[SanderV]

I just finished watching the BBC F1 Forum. We may be critical of the forum sometimes, but this time I thought it was fantastic. At some circuits, there are barely any fans, but in Japan they were still there even in the dark. Fantastic stuff. This race meant a lot to them, especially after the Fukushima disaster. Great to see Jenson win it to be honest, as it's like his second home country. And once again I have to say what a nice guy Jenson is. If we could have 3 drivers in the team, I would pick Jenson.

Also a very good interview with Vettel. I believe he is a very humble and modest guy. We should not forget he is only 23 (?) years old. I didn't witness Schumacher's first seasons in F1, but I think Vettel has a lot of potential for the future... We should keep an eye on him. All in all, I think a great day for the sport, especially for the Japanese people.

I think next year could be very close between Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren. I just hope we won't lose out.

[schumi1]

BBC F1 Forum is fantastic they do a great job not sure if it will be back next year.

[M.K]

Seb seemed to mention Monza 400 times at least on the F1 forum

Yeah, so impressed with Alonso start he was...

[siberianlady]

Why don't we get the idea of hiring a tyre specialist like Macca did? They say it really helped them since they bought in an ex Bridgestone man to help them understand compunds and how they work etc......

[Nova]

^They "bought" an ex BS man? Wow..wonder how much he cost?
Just kidden..actually a great idea...

[siberianlady]

^They "bought" an ex BS man? Wow..wonder how much he cost?
Just kidden..actually a great idea...

They just kept going on about in on German Sky this weekend.......maybe Ferrari do need a tyre man........dunno!

[Greig]

How would a Bridgestone guy know so much about Pirelli?

If we don't understand tyres by now then I don't think we ever will lol

[SanderV]

In his Ferrari years Schumacher worked intensively with Bridgestone engineer Kees van de Grint. I don't know if such a situation would be effective today, as Ferrari's relation with Bridgestone was probably different. If McLaren works with a Pirelli engineer, I'm sure Ferrari would also consider hiring one if they thought it could be useful.

[Rob]

Why don't we get the idea of hiring a tyre specialist like Macca did? They say it really helped them since they bought in an ex Bridgestone man to help them understand compunds and how they work etc......

think it was to get him in, to help build modelling programes for the CFD and wind tunnel. He doesnt know the Pirelli compound structure of tyres, its fact that he has years of CFD and modelling experiance.

[Tifoso]

think it was to get him in, to help build modelling programes for the CFD and wind tunnel. He doesnt know the Pirelli compound structure of tyres, its fact that he has years of CFD and modelling experiance.

Very interesting info. Thanks mate

[Rob]

Very interesting info. Thanks mate