Ferrari says only small improvements needed to fight for 2012 F1 title

**medeni73** · 10th October 2011, 12:43

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95238

"Ferrari has no doubt that it will take only a small improvement in pace with next year's car to get itself back into world championship contention, following its strong performance at the Japanese Grand Prix.
"I am convinced about it," Domenicali said. "If you look at the way of what happened in Japan, there was not such a huge gap to overcome, I must say.

"So we need to be spot on in the preparation of the car without getting too anxious of being so far behind. That means we are maybe closer than what we were thinking and we need to, on the other side, make sure everything is under control in terms of development and in terms of the baseline of the car."...

So untill today we wanted to present a revolution and a car with "WOW-effect" and now we're back to "productive evolution" AGAIN....

**hogo** · 10th October 2011, 12:51

Originally Posted by medeni73

So untill today we wanted to present a revolution and a car with "WOW-effect" and now we're back to "productive evolution" AGAIN....

lol yeah, was ideal track and conditions for our car and now he thinks that usual gap (over 1s) is gone...

**Hornet** · 10th October 2011, 13:12

I hope this is just a "poker face" talk

We need to thrown in any and every improvement we can find. Stay on that WOW effect car, don't go back to whatever we did for 2011

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 13:17

Stefano is right, we are not far away, wow effect cars are rarely all that good and seem to suggest you have ran out of idea's and throw it on, thinking about the chin-wing, Williams walruss nose.

Red Bull does not say wow to me, what we need is a racing car wow or not

**medeni73** · 10th October 2011, 13:28

I dont think F150 is a good platform to build 2012 car on... Even with 2011 versions of RB and Maccas we dont stand a chance and they will raise a bar even higher for 2012 so I think a platform "from a scratch" although risky, could bring more results, and if it doesnt who cares then if we're "just a split of second" away with "evolutionized" F150 or a whole second with revolutionized 2012...So be first or die trying...I dont like mediocrity... :)

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 13:33

If the EBD was banned now we would be up front as Silverstone showed with our only win, so in essence the base is there to build on.

**Nova** · 10th October 2011, 13:35

I think there is still a gap to mac, and a larger gap to RB...I dont know what SD is talking about, but lets not get ahead of ourselves..
If the Ferrari was that good we shouldve won..since when is an ok finish good enough...I like this years car, but it has only equaled
the 1 win of the F60. Add to that we dont know how the tires at the next race will react, we still struggle on the hard compound.
Did anyone also notice when Vettel was behind Nando, in braking area's, how quickly the RB simply caught right up to the Ferrari?
I was amazed and it looked to me like Vettel couldve passed Nando if he had to. If Vettel didnt have to simply get points to achieve
the WDC, we wouldnt have done 2nd.
Why settle for "not so far away"? 2nd is great, but you still lost.

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 13:42

I maybe misread but I don't think he is saying they are going to accept 2nd?

The rules being so strict then there really is not much room for wow these days, what car has made anyone go wow from looks in recent times?

wow comes in the form of laptimes to me

**medeni73** · 10th October 2011, 13:44

Originally Posted by Greig

If the EBD was banned now we would be up front as Silverstone showed with our only win, so in essence the base is there to build on.

Yes the essence is there, the essence that is 1 sec slower than competition. And do not forget, Maccas and RBs wont just sit around and cry over banned EBD, they will have better essence to start with despite EBD...
And I dont think that Silverstone race could show some trend "What would it be like without EDB"...
And I dont want to see some Space Ship Ferrari too, for me is Wow effect fast car too BUT F150 just isnt that fast (or should I say fast enough) car...

**Tifosi** · 10th October 2011, 14:03

Originally Posted by medeni73

Yes the essence is there, the essence that is 1 sec slower than competition. And do not forget, Maccas and RBs wont just sit around and cry over banned EBD, they will have better essence to start with despite EBD...
And I dont think that Silverstone race could show some trend "What would it be like without EDB"...
And I dont want to see some Space Ship Ferrari too, for me is Wow effect fast car too BUT F150 just isnt that fast (or should I say fast enough) car...

However, Ferrari have been designing and building F1 cars for a lot longer than we have(!!) and they also have access to ALL the data - so in essence and in light of this - if you don't trust them to know if it is better to work from the F150 or to do a complete redesign then how can you trust them to redesign from scratch a better car than the F150 - logically?

The idea of them "starting again" may sound nice in the head but on what evidence is the logic of that idea based?

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 14:10

Originally Posted by medeni73

Yes the essence is there, the essence that is 1 sec slower than competition. And do not forget, Maccas and RBs wont just sit around and cry over banned EBD, they will have better essence to start with despite EBD...
And I dont think that Silverstone race could show some trend "What would it be like without EDB"...
And I dont want to see some Space Ship Ferrari too, for me is Wow effect fast car too BUT F150 just isnt that fast (or should I say fast enough) car...

We have said for a long time that we would be using the rest of this season to test 2012 issues and learn from what we have, Red Bull have a car designed around EBD so they are going to be hard at work off course, they won't be starting from scratch though and neither will McLaren.

We might be 1 second in qual, we are not in racing which is what we need really, if we can get the tyres to work in all temps and up to temp quicker then this would have a great impact already on our car.

**Jose Lorca** · 10th October 2011, 14:10

The only reason why we looked so good in Japan was because of Alonso's supreme driving. We were probably about 3-4 tenth slower than McLaren and Red Bull. Martin Brundle noted how much better the RB7 looked when Vettel was trying to pass Alonso and Brundle also noticed how the McLaren looked better through 130R towards the end when Alonso was catching Button.

Big improvements are needed next year. Thats the only way we'll win.

**NJB13** · 10th October 2011, 14:27

Originally Posted by medeni73

I dont think F150 is a good platform to build 2012 car on... Even with 2011 versions of RB and Maccas we dont stand a chance and they will raise a bar even higher for 2012 so I think a platform "from a scratch" although risky, could bring more results, and if it doesnt who cares then if we're "just a split of second" away with "evolutionized" F150 or a whole second with revolutionized 2012...So be first or die trying...I dont like mediocrity... :)

1) The 2012 design starting point for SF, Mc & RB is our current cars with zero Extreme Overrun (EO) and zero EBD effect.
2) At Silverstone we saw the closest comparison to that situation. What we had was full EBD's and half EO.
3) At Silverstone we were clearly fastest in race trim and, most importantly over all 3 days we were fastest through sector 2, Copse, Maggots and Becketts (and I'd add it was BOTH Nando and Felipe that were fast through there)

We can be optimistic about the fact that taking "part" of the EO and EBD's away had enough effect to make us fastest. Take all the EO and EBD away and things should swing more in our favour. Which also means the underlying car that we (SF) begins the 2012 design process from, is ahead of Mc and RB.

So, I'll just say that I'm optimistic about our prospects for next year, in fact, I think we are starting from a very good position. I just hope that the ban really happens.

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 14:34

You need to understand how the EBD works, it works from the over run, so reducing the over run at Silverstone meant the diffuser was not working at 100%, but you will ignore anyone setting you right

Taking them away does not equate to us being quickest next year, McLaren and Red Bull will not just turn up with the same car without it lol, and neither will we as it also helps us just not as much

**Hornet** · 10th October 2011, 14:40

Originally Posted by Greig

Red Bull does not say wow to me, what we need is a racing car wow or not

Yeah, I do agree that visually, there's nothing "wow" about Red Bull. But what really WOW me about their car is how Newey makes it work on the finer level. Its all the small details like the EBD which we can hardly see where the exhaust are, let alone tell exactly where the hot air is flowing to and what kind of effect its creating under the diffuser. And yet, RB are able to tune those fine details to a great advantage.

I also remember they sacrifice their KERS unit to shape the rear section more to the way they wanted, I'm sure it was a huge risk but ultimately it paid off. This is the kind of risk that I think Ferrari needs to take.

I agree F2012 doesn't need to be visually "WOW". But I'd like to hear similar kind of things being said about it like what we've heard this year about RB. We've heard during the testing about how they just have so much more downforce through the corners, how they can open the DRS earlier and so on. Even though they did not put the lap times together to show the real picture, all the tell tale sign was there that it was going to be a dominating car.

**PURE PASSION** · 10th October 2011, 14:41

All i care is p1 in australia and after!!!!!!Is this will came with a wow car or not i dont care at all!!!!!!

**Sempre_Ferrari** · 10th October 2011, 14:41

Originally Posted by Greig

If the EBD was banned now we would be up front as Silverstone showed with our only win, so in essence the base is there to build on.

My thoughts exactly....

**Nova** · 10th October 2011, 15:11

I still dont get why they werent allowed to use their "stuff" at Silverstone, then they were allowed for the rest of the year...So is everyone saying that without RB
running their stuff at SS, we are as fast or faster? We won, which is always good.
Someone will exploit whatever loophole there is for next years regs...I do hope Ferrari pushes it to the limits, finds that loophole n exploits it.
And that the car works fine on any compound tires.

**bobi_ve** · 10th October 2011, 15:25

only HUUUUGEEEEEE,GIGANTIC,GALACTIC improvements,R-E-A-L IMPROVEMENTS (not "encouraging" results from wind tunnel,damn empty hopes or beliefs/opinions from anybody inside the team)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't believe any word on this incapable "spaghetti man"!!!
He costs us 3 years without any Title!!!Its all about his fault...we need us one capable,strong-hand,genius man who will lead our team ahead.

**Greig** · 10th October 2011, 15:26

angry or what lol

**epiclyaddicted** · 10th October 2011, 15:30

Jeez, some people need to take a chill pill!

**bobi_ve** · 10th October 2011, 15:41

Yeahh that's because I'm very tired from our huge defeats 3 years in a row and empty hopes,promises and false еncouraging statements!!!

**Kingdom Hearts** · 10th October 2011, 15:42

I really hope they don't think this way at all, or we are understimating RB.

**Hornet** · 10th October 2011, 15:42

Originally Posted by Nova

I still dont get why they werent allowed to use their "stuff" at Silverstone, then they were allowed for the rest of the year...So is everyone saying that without RB
running their stuff at SS, we are as fast or faster? We won, which is always good.
Someone will exploit whatever loophole there is for next years regs...I do hope Ferrari pushes it to the limits, finds that loophole n exploits it.
And that the car works fine on any compound tires.

FIA wanted to ban those engine mapping that the teams are using to ensure the diffuser is still being blown even when the driver is not pressing the throttle, but the whole thing turned into a mess because Mercedes was allowed to do something with their engine off-throttle, can't remember what it was, but they claim it was important for their engine reliability, so Red Bull went to the FIA to argue that they too need their off-throttle thing for reliability.

All of this happened at Silverstone weekend itself. So FIA decide to revert the ban, but only the following race, so for that one race, they could not effectively use their EBD concept.

**ferrari4life** · 10th October 2011, 15:46

i used to love the time when ferrari were silent and spoke on track rather than all this hog wash.. lets just see where we stand at the start of next year because we have been "fooled" a few times in the last couple of years

**prancing horse** · 10th October 2011, 16:00

back in the old days of Schumi, when we were winning, there were never any talk about future performance. Just promise of hard work.

i have been reading what has been coming of Ferrari all this year before the season started, and it has just all been cheap talk.

the guys at the helm need to get their head down and just get on with it and stop making headlines on Mondays. they need to do their talking on Sunday afternoons on the track.

**fonza alonso** · 10th October 2011, 17:06

well more interesting thing is ferrari doing their stuff without discussing what others are doing at this stage, which is more encouraging....

**scuderiafan** · 10th October 2011, 17:28

I remember a few years ago, Ferrari promised a big improvement on 'next years' car after they struggled with tyres a little that year also.

after that season was finished Ferrari promised a revolutionised front wing among other things on the car.

when the car was unveiled many thought it looked the same as the one that went before, and with other teams making big improvements, and the tyre situation remaining the same, that Ferrari would struggle.
there wasn't really any change on the front wing either, iirc.

of course we are talking about This

**marsvolta** · 10th October 2011, 17:31

What is really worrying is that they made improvements for Spa and Monza and that just did't work out so now they go back to a car spec that was in Hungary and everything is fine. So it looks like they have no idea why something is working or not. In Canada in qualy Ferrari where only 0,2 tenths behind Red Bull. All the talking by Fry in the summer that they finally know why the tyres where not working was bullcrap.