Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 09:45

I don't care if some people agree with me or not, but I stand by my opinion that were at least some new parts on Felipe's car. The 1,5 second gap in lap times during the race was just too much for it to have been merely caused by Alonso being on tyre saving mode or differences in car setup. I have the right to my opinion, and if someone don't like it...well then you can just go ______

And besides, I'm not the only one who thinks like that.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion and that's mine. Unless you work at Ferrari, you can't deny it or confirm it.

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 09:58

Oct.19 (GMM) Two tenths of a second could ensure that Fernando Alonso is able to win the 2012 Formula One World Championship, according to the team’s boss.

“We need to find at least two tenths,” Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali told Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport.

Although Alonso’s fastest race lap in Korea last time out was four tenths off the fastest Red Bull, Felipe Massa was just two tenths adrift the ultimate pace in the sister F2012.

Reports have indicated that the Brazilian was at the wheel with a new exhaust layout that will be added to Alonso’s red car in India next weekend.

Domenicali said the step needed by Ferrari to compete with Red Bull and track down Sebastian Vettel’s 6-point lead is small.

“We do not need to reinvent our car,” said the Italian.

Red Bull’s advantage has looked significant at the last few races, but designer Adrian Newey is cautious.

“It is not certain that we will maintain this advantage over Ferrari,” he is quoted by Italy’s La Stampa.

“No team this year has dominated for more than two consecutive grands prix,” added the Briton. “In Korea we were very concerned about the excessive consumption of tyres.”

Alonso is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace: “Five races ago McLaren was the favourite to win everything else this year but in Korea they were almost out of the points.

“We are six points behind but there are still 100 in the game. We have a good chance of winning the championship.”

Source: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/10/19/fe...st-two-tenths/

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 10:01

IMHO a mere 2 tenths of a second doesn't quite cut it for us to win the WDC.

But Mr. Domenicali surely knows what he's talking about?

**Ken** · 19th October 2012, 10:08

There have been many posts here on the subject of mysterious new parts on a car in the Korean GP.

The many posts containing that opinion and defending that opinion to my way of thinking have derailed this thread.

This argument has run long enough as those making the claim, those countering the claim and those defending the claim have absolutely no evidence to offer one way the other, over this protracted debate

Further we have a "Technical" forum on these boards where this discussion should be held in my opinion.

I would request that the moderators now close this thread and we all use the the proper forum for future debate on car updates.

I would prefer those who speculate on changes to the cars try and find solid reasons for their claims and present the evidence they use to support their claims.

Thank you if you read this and agree

**Kingdom Hearts** · 19th October 2012, 10:09

Stefano is crazy

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 10:15

Originally Posted by Ken

There have been many posts here on the subject of mysterious new parts on a car in the Korean GP.

The many posts containing that opinion and defending that opinion to my way of thinking have derailed this thread.

This argument has run long enough as those making the claim, those countering the claim and those defending the claim have absolutely no evidence to offer one way the other, over this protracted debate

Further we have a "Technical" forum on these boards where this discussion should be held in my opinion.

I would request that the moderators now close this thread and we all use the the proper forum for future debate on car updates.

I would prefer those who speculate on changes to the cars try and find solid reasons for their claims and present the evidence they use to support their claims.

Thank you if you read this and agree

I would agree with you mate, but it's just that it's rare when someone here can provide some solid evidence on anything. Most of the comments are pure speculation, cause none of us actually work at Ferrari and all our info is based on the stuff we hear from other people or find on the internet.

But I do agree with the rest of your comment

**Greig** · 19th October 2012, 10:18

Originally Posted by Ken

Further we have a "Technical" forum on these boards where this discussion should be held in my opinion.

I would request that the moderators now close this thread and we all use the the proper forum for future debate on car updates.

Move the most popular thread on the forum to the technical graveyard?

Probably not the best of ideas

**Ken** · 19th October 2012, 10:20

Originally Posted by Tifoso84

I would agree with you mate, but it's just that it's rare when someone here can provide some solid evidence on anything. Most of the comments are pure speculation, cause none of us actually work at Ferrari and all our info is based on the stuff we hear from other people or find on the internet.

But I do agree with the rest of your comment

There in is my point if one of makes a speculative claim, and it gets countered (hope in a non confrontational manner ), read the answers and only reply if there are further facts that can be offered to enhance the speculation. Defending without any further substance is pretty useless as is countering repeatedly for the same reason.

**Ken** · 19th October 2012, 10:24

Originally Posted by Greig

Move the most popular thread on the forum to the technical graveyard?

Probably not the best of ideas

Popular Threads like this could bring it back to life and give the forum back its purpose ?

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 10:26

Originally Posted by Ken

There in is my point if one of makes a speculative claim, and it gets countered (hope in a non confrontational manner ), read the answers and only reply if there are further facts that can be offered to enhance the speculation. Defending without any further substance is pretty useless as is countering repeatedly for the same reason.

Yea I agree completely. We should be able to express our opinions and thoughts without someone trying to ridicule someone's opinion and try to turn it into a pointless comment war.

If someone has had a bad day, then go flame somewhere else, but not here! This is supposed to be a friendly place, isn't it?

Well said Ken!

**Greig** · 19th October 2012, 10:36

Originally Posted by Ken

Popular Threads like this could bring it back to life and give the forum back its purpose ?

Probably not as many would just not see it, better idea would be removing technical forum.

**Greig** · 19th October 2012, 10:37

Originally Posted by Tifoso84

Yea I agree completely. We should be able to express our opinions and thoughts without someone trying to ridicule someone's opinion and try to turn it into a pointless comment war.

If someone has had a bad day, then go flame somewhere else, but not here! This is supposed to be a friendly place, isn't it?

Well said Ken!

Indeed hopefully you practice what you preach

Love when new members come along and try to tell us how to run the forum.

**Tifoso84** · 19th October 2012, 10:38

Originally Posted by Greig

Indeed hopefully you practice what you preach

Oh I will, don't you worry about me. The question is are you?

**Greig** · 19th October 2012, 10:39

Originally Posted by Tifoso84

Oh I will, don't you worry about me. The question is are you?

Nah don't think I will, especially when someone is just posting fantasy. But if you want to carry on then do so via PM as you are ruining this thread now

**Rosso Corsa** · 19th October 2012, 10:58

If I can be excused a retort to the 'having a bad day' assumption.

You basically claimed that someone at Ferrari whispered in your ear. It's there on page 129. Turning this into being about opinions, comment wars and flaming (like you're the victim here) is a wonderful defence mechanism. We're the victims of you spreading mis-information. You can try and claim all the moral highground you like, because that's a figment of your imagination too. Somewhere for your little bird to flutter around.

**anialonso** · 19th October 2012, 11:07

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

Folks, we're on page 130. If those pages have taught us anything, it's that the ONLY truly reliable source of info throughout the season has been Ferrari. They've been honest and factual throughout. The only other sources who have been correct have been journalists who got a quote from Ferrari before Ferrari made their own announcement/confirmation of updates. Not a single rumour, mole, whispering bird or [insert your favourite talking animal here] has been correct. The evidence is in the thread. Go back and read it.

And Ferrari can't do a single thing at the circuit without people knowing about it. It's the most photographed car on the grid. Felipe did not run with new exhausts or suspension in Korea. Period. Felipe and his side of the pit garage did an excellent job. Congratulate them for it like a true Ferrari fan.

I may as well say what most people seem not to want to. Most 'rumours' actually start with some of you. You imagine something in your head that could almost be plausible, and then type it on the forum. What's the purpose? So that another forum member you've never met gives you a good old ego massage because they think you know a Ferrari insider? It's pathetic. Step away from the keyboard and take a look at yourself. It's rediculous. And some of you are so gullible. The same people week in week out 'if these rumours are true, then I'm so excited'. Do you learn nothing? Again and again you're taken in by it, and again and again your disappointed that these miraculous updates don't appear. What's worse, most of you seem like clever people too. I don't understand how you get suckered in.

Buried away in this thread is the real life development of our car, and it's been far more interesting than you give credit for. Our team have worked their socks off to give us a chance, and the story behind them and our successes and failures is being lost in a tide of lies and makebelieve. They don't deserve that, they deserve celebrating and supporting for their efforts, and the fans don't deserve being deceived.

In summary, please, back up and give the true Ferrari fans a chance to read factual information about their team. It's getting more than frustrating. Ferrari will show us what updates we have when we have them. Then we'll see how the updates perform. That's how it goes.

Well said..

**anialonso** · 19th October 2012, 11:08

Originally Posted by Ken

There have been many posts here on the subject of mysterious new parts on a car in the Korean GP.

The many posts containing that opinion and defending that opinion to my way of thinking have derailed this thread.

This argument has run long enough as those making the claim, those countering the claim and those defending the claim have absolutely no evidence to offer one way the other, over this protracted debate

Further we have a "Technical" forum on these boards where this discussion should be held in my opinion.

I would request that the moderators now close this thread and we all use the the proper forum for future debate on car updates.

I would prefer those who speculate on changes to the cars try and find solid reasons for their claims and present the evidence they use to support their claims.

Thank you if you read this and agree

Totally agree with you...

**anialonso** · 19th October 2012, 11:14

I seriously dont think we are 2 tenths slower than RB..Massa did his fastest lap on lap 48 whereas Web did his on lap 54 and that we have not considered Vettel who was way faster than Web in the race..
Even in the first and second stint Alonso was roughly losing 0.3-0.5 per lap..so Ferrari need a gain of 0.3-0.5 to challenge the Bulls..

**Greig** · 19th October 2012, 11:22

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/10/1...-fastest-laps/

You can select Alonso and Massa only for laptimes, struggling to see where Massa was lapping over 1 second faster than Alonso was over any sort of period of laps, maybe someone can tell me?

**Ken** · 19th October 2012, 11:31

Originally Posted by Greig

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/10/1...-fastest-laps/

You can select Alonso and Massa only for laptimes, struggling to see where Massa was lapping over 1 second faster than Alonso was over any sort of period of laps, maybe someone can tell me?

Thanks Greig for the new toy to play with post race, it certainly shows how each car performed and the ability to compare any choice of car with another is superb.

**Tobes** · 19th October 2012, 11:36

I'm confused, did Felipe have an identical car to Fernando or not...?

There would appear to be a number of reports that suggest Felipe had a new exhaust solution, I do seem to keep reading that Felipe was running different parts, and not just here on the forum, indeed in the 'we need to find 2/10's' thread it says...

Reports have indicated that the Brazilian was at the wheel with a new exhaust layout that will be added to Alonso’s red car in India next weekend.

**zakfourie** · 19th October 2012, 11:37

I personnaly think we need a lot more...........

But I won't give up hope!

**Hornet** · 19th October 2012, 11:38

Its hard to judge on our race pace because of the tires situation, where the drivers are only going as fast as their tire condition allows. Everyone is tiptoeing around.

Qualifying will be the only time we can compare the pure performance pace.

**F2002** · 19th October 2012, 11:48

They know what they're doing, so we need to trust these numbers.

Of course, one would have to assume that RBR itself doesn't progress even further.

**Rosso Corsa** · 19th October 2012, 12:00

Originally Posted by Tobes

I'm confused, did Felipe have an identical car to Fernando or not...?

There would appear to be a number of reports that suggest Felipe had a new exhaust solution, I do seem to keep reading that Felipe was running different parts, and not just here on the forum, indeed in the 'we need to find 2/10's' thread it says...

The cars look identical in photos, but that's not to say they actually were identical. No idea where the evidence is if it exists.

**Jose-Lorca Fan** · 19th October 2012, 12:12

It could be engine maps or something. But honestly the only way we will find out is in India.

**mark p** · 19th October 2012, 12:36

Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan

It could be engine maps or something. But honestly the only way we will find out is in India.

Exhaust position is likely optimal for f2012 design. A few races ago McLaren were the best and theirs and Ferraris were the best exhaust then Sauber invented the ramp only to switch to Ferrari style. Depends on your aero concept as to whats best they must be close it's how much you can optimise your solution. Whether Massa had different exhaust? Not on exterior exhust design and direction. Engine maps have to now be from a choice of 3 or so from start of year so not that. Maybe manifold changes aloowing more pressure from exhaust exits? Any photos of both cars in the pits without bodywork showing details of the manifolds?

**NickEice** · 19th October 2012, 13:13

Here is a cooler lap time site. It updates after every GP. You can click the flag of the race you want to look at and hit the drop down for the 2 drivers to analyze.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...a#.UIFRK2_R6zk

Lap 37, Massa's first full lap after his last Pit Stop was the only time that he lapped faster than Alonso. The next largest was lap 41 where Massa was 0.65 faster.