Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[medeni73]

Ferrari broke curfew again... If anything they're giving it all in order to make that car competitive...

[gjoko-mkd]

That are god news,must be there something when a tim broke the curfew

[Rosso Corsa]

The RB car's T-tray is almost touching the floor. The RB cars have been able to use much more rake angle due to their effective blown diffuser. This shows that their solution is still much better than McLaren's coanda effect exhaust (which everyone else use) although they sacrifice straight line speed.

It's fascinating that the front of their t-tray doesn't seem to get further from the ground as fuel is burned off, or when they have no fuel on board for qualifying runs. If anything, the front of their t-tray seems to get even closer to the ground as fuel is burned off, as seen by the sparks that have been kicking up recently on low fuel.

The point about which the car should pivot as the rear end gets lighter should be the front suspension. It's the only physical pivot. Ergo, anything and everything behind that pivot point should climb higher as weight is lost, including the front of the t-tray. But that doesn't happen for them. With the Red Bull, the car behaves as if the pivot point is the front of the t-tray. The only way I could think of to duplicate that in a model would be to design the front suspension to un-twist as load at the rear is reduced, which would have the effect of creating a virtual pivot point further back than the physical pivot point. Which would be incredibly trick indeed. The rake and ride height at the virtual pivot point could be maintained whatever the fuel load or downforce level, or even increased depending on how the twist in the front suspension is tuned to load/unload. That's just a theory. They might be achieving the effect another way, but they do seem to be achieving the effect somehow. Physics simply says says the t-tray should get higher as weight is lost, and the only physical pivot is the front suspension about which the rake should rotate. Wouldn't break any rules I'm aware of either.

Sorry to go off-topic with Red Bull.

[Forzi]

Seeing this not for the first time. Vettel, Webber, Lewis, Button, Kimi, Maldonado improved from going to the softer tire by 0.8-1 sec. We managed to improve 0.1-0.3 sec. What gives?

[Kyss4k]

So many straight line aero tests, 2 broken curfews and nothing... The guys in the factory just don't know, they are absolutly lost about what the car needs. They can work as hard as they want, but without an idea they will just kill themselves from exhaustion. This is not the way.

[stefa]

So many straight line aero tests, 2 broken curfews and nothing... The guys in the factory just don't know, they are absolutly lost about what the car needs. They can work as hard as they want, but without an idea they will just kill themselves from exhaustion. This is not the way.

That or maybe this car cannot be upgraded any more whatever they put on it...

[Red passion]

So many straight line aero tests, 2 broken curfews and nothing... The guys in the factory just don't know, they are absolutly lost about what the car needs. They can work as hard as they want, but without an idea they will just kill themselves from exhaustion. This is not the way.

That is painful as a ferrari fan to read.

[dmkevin]

That or maybe this car cannot be upgraded any more whatever they put on it...

100% agree with you. The car has reached its development ceiling... If only Tomba had the vision of newey, we would have long change radiator/sidepod after first test!!! The sidepod is the main problem - change that and we probably could have had the fastest car but Tomba and his gang thought otherwise. I believe they count too much on the result from the wind tunnel rather than going back to the drawing board and look at the theory of aero again!!! The fundamentals of it... if they did that maybe they would have changed the sidepod and see that they bloody big belly was in the way of the airflow. But anyway, i hope next year that we are either really good or totally rubbish, cause i cant keep on watching us finishing second year after year starting with a mediocre design!!! Hope that the engineers have learnt a lot this season and hopefully with 1 year under pat fry... the fundamental issues with the processes & people would have improved a lot and get us somewhere better next year... hope they don't come up with the wind tunnel crap again for next year.
On the good side they did turn a donkey into a good horse but shame they have hit the ceiling with this car!!!! that shows that their development avenues didnt work out. On the bad side others have turned there horses into a fast racing horses...

[Curbs]

100% agree with you. The car has reached its development ceiling...

At the launch of the F2012 this inovative car was supposed to have a much higher potential (higher ceiling) than the others who "just developed" last years designs.

[wacc]

Nobody on this forum can know anything about the F2012's developement potential. They are one of the teams that made the biggest improvement. Dunno why but they went wrong way with the developement of the car somewhere in June-July-August which compromised their performance after the summer break. Even so they were faster than McLaren during some races. Ferrari is a great team with great peope, but so is RB.

[Jas]

I'm slighltly worried next year we will hear the wind tunnel excuse again if we dont perform...this time along the lines, "we only got our wind tunnel in January and we are currently working to understand it more and caliberate it etc etc"...lets hope not!!

[wacc]

[wacc]

According to Felipe, the new front wing works as well as the wind tunnel prediction, but the new rear wing brought only half of the expected improvement.

Source Auto Motor und Sport

[Golfsmith]

Guys,just want to say what I think after reading through all the posts (had missed the P1/P2/P3 and Quali) and I now some of the moderators will hit me on the fingers again that since 2005 the team lost it's ability to build a good car (08 was a mere exception) some personnel was moved to other departments other left the team and I still think it's the management that's our problem from developing a very good all round car and the team not investing in better tools to reach the top of the development game.We must no base our luck on somebodys misfortune we need to beat them at there own cheating game,LETS GO FERRARI DO IT.

[giodap]

Guys,just want to say what I think after reading through all the posts (had missed the P1/P2/P3 and Quali) and I now some of the moderators will hit me on the fingers again that since 2005 the team lost it's ability to build a good car (08 was a mere exception) some personnel was moved to other departments other left the team and I still think it's the management that's our problem from developing a very good all round car and the team not investing in better tools to reach the top of the development game.We must no base our luck on somebodys misfortune we need to beat them at there own cheating game,LETS GO FERRARI DO IT.

since 05 ferrari have not built a really bad car out of the box apart from this year IMO. 2009 we got caught out with the double diffusers, and from then on we have battled with adrian newey and his obsession with blowing exhausts. if we took newey away, we would have been reasonably competitive in 2010 till now.

[Golfsmith]

According to you 'giodap' South African Rory Byrne built cars up to 05 and in the same period Newey could not match Rory,then I don't know why did Ferrari win so much with Schumi in that period and it was not just Shumi as the cars was good for all the drivers that were at Ferrari in that years,according to me Rory kicked Neweys behind in that period an he was the best there was even with Newey in the picture.

[diesel08]

where is now Rory?He beat Newey all the time

[Massimo181]

I think Ferrari are copying RB and looking what they have on the car copy it turn up with what the RB has and then if it does not work then blame it on the wind tunnel!?!

I was reading the above article about the turning vains noticed it says that they have new turning vanes like on the RB.

It would be nice to say that Ferrari have new aero package that is Unique in design but we just have to copy RB or Macca!?!

[wacc]

There was probably a small refinment in the exhaust channels area.
Abu Dhabi:

India:

[FrankAlfa]

LOL, the car HAS NOT Reaached Any Development Ceiling! These cars are modular and many things can be revised and applied! The issues are that Ferrari have problems with the Wind Tunnel and they have not Track Testing as well! This is purely about no being able to test a design and see if they are hitting the target for downforce! The car is VERY FAR from its Development limit! The car has not been developed since Spain! Ferrari just can't make headway with so little testing permited and the have to rely on a faulty windtunnel. This is their problem and there is nothing they can really do about it.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Hornet]

where is now Rory?He beat Newey all the time

He retired from F1 side of things, though I think he still act as an adviser or something. He's living in Thailand last I heard.

Actually Rory Bryne retired after Schumi left Benetton. Having won the WCC with Schumi's 2nd world title, he decided to retire after that. Ferrari manage to persuade him to come back to F1 again after Ferrari started building a new team with Schumi.

I don't think he want to return again.

[DIEK]

Mclaren mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead

Redbull mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead

Lotus mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead.


Ferrai mount DDRS ---> In 2013 may be?

[rossopervincere]

source :

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...2-5818138.html

' das neue Chassis von einer Gruppe aus Spezialisten unter Leitung des Formel 1-Chefdesigners Rory Byrne von Hand laminiert'

it says that the chassis of the new enzo road car was developed by a group of specialists headed by Rory byrne : see photo :


http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/b...otoshow_item=3

[DIEK]

New signing for the aerodynamic team:



Loïc Bigois, was the Head of Aerodynamics at Mercedes GP, he leave the team in June 2012, would join Ferrari as Head of Aerodynamics before the end of the year, after a long gardening leave period.

[FerrariF60]

Mclaren mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead

Redbull mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead

Lotus mount DDRS ---> qualify ahead.


Ferrai mount DDRS ---> In 2013 may be?

the DDRS will be banned for 2013...we had our chance to do it/work on it from at least couple months back, but for whatever reason (maybe wind tunnel issues) we didn't
let's hope 2013 will be better for the prancing horse

[Rob]

the DDRS will be banned for 2013...we had our chance to do it/work on it from at least couple months back, but for whatever reason (maybe wind tunnel issues) we didn't
let's hope 2013 will be better for the prancing horse

DDRS is not banned next year. The system like Lotus was trying to develop is banned, but the RBR system isnt banned. We will have 1.

[Kyss4k]

source :

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...2-5818138.html

' das neue Chassis von einer Gruppe aus Spezialisten unter Leitung des Formel 1-Chefdesigners Rory Byrne von Hand laminiert'

it says that the chassis of the new enzo road car was developed by a group of specialists headed by Rory byrne : see photo :


http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/b...otoshow_item=3

Yep, Byrne is working in the Ferrari road cars division, sadly... He still has it.

[giodap]

According to you 'giodap' South African Rory Byrne built cars up to 05 and in the same period Newey could not match Rory,then I don't know why did Ferrari win so much with Schumi in that period and it was not just Shumi as the cars was good for all the drivers that were at Ferrari in that years,according to me Rory kicked Neweys behind in that period an he was the best there was even with Newey in the picture.

your absolutely right, but the sport has changed since this period. with a freeze on everything apart from aero. ferrari are in desperate need of a "rory byrne" type character to really push the aero side of things because at the moment we are the followers and not the trend setters. we seem to lack the innovation that we once had when rory was around

[Catalan]

What can I say after today´s race. First of all and again ... Alonso is GOD ( at least to me ). Now, with 2 races to go, looks like Fer will start behind Vettel both in USA, Brazil. I don´t know what the team has for Austin and for Sao Paulo in terms of development, but apparently, we´ll have to play offense desperately, otherwise it will all be over in the US. Maybe the upgrades will bring some tenth(s), but Red Bull is consistently half second ahead of Ferrari on Saturdays, and that´s a big gap. So, keep the faith and hard work, push to put pressure on Vettel and hope this time the fortune smiles to us. No doubt that Kimi in 2007 or even Vettel in 2010 were in a far worse position 2 races before the end of those championships, and they both got it. ( By the way, those 2 titles could have been for ALO ).

[Gerhard Berger]

What can I say after today´s race. First of all and again ... Alonso is GOD ( at least to me ). Now, with 2 races to go, looks like Fer will start behind Vettel both in USA, Brazil. I don´t know what the team has for Austin and for Sao Paulo in terms of development, but apparently, we´ll have to play offense desperately, otherwise it will all be over in the US. Maybe the upgrades will bring some tenth(s), but Red Bull is consistently half second ahead of Ferrari on Saturdays, and that´s a big gap. So, keep the faith and hard work, push to put pressure on Vettel and hope this time the fortune smiles to us. No doubt that Kimi in 2007 or even Vettel in 2010 were in a far worse position 2 races before the end of those championships, and they both got it. ( By the way, those 2 titles could have been for ALO ).

They both had to rely on something serious happening to the then championship leader. I think with the car we have, we have to rely on something like that happening to Vettel.