Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[FrankAlfa]

The Mini Wing just forward of the Sidepod is exactly what I have been saying they do! Smooth Out and Control the air flow by adding samll wing or vane. The downforce can be drawn in and applied to the race car. They just have to channel it better and make the air flow work for them. Remember that they still have to fight drag but they are doing it! They are adjusting the race car to gain more downforce! They need more elements!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Jose Lorca]

We are making good progress. The best qualifying lap from each team compared:

Mercedes +0.000
McLaren +0.505
Red Bull +0.579
Sauber +0.663
Lotus +0.777
Ferrari +0.861

This comes on a track that does not suit our car. Not only is this a good sign for the future, but the updates are even more encouraging. The old winglet has been replaced with 2 smaller wings in a higher position...looks to me like those are designed with a Sauber-style exhaust in mind. As for the engine cover seen on Thursday that wasn't used - we wouldn't need it because the hot air comes out of the acer ducts... so this new engine cover would suggest the acer ducts won't be around for much longer and the radiator position may change.

Sounds like we are designing a Ferrauber.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

We are making good progress. The best qualifying lap from each team compared:

Mercedes +0.000
McLaren +0.505
Red Bull +0.579
Sauber +0.663
Lotus +0.777
Ferrari +0.861

This comes on a track that does not suit our car. Not only is this a good sign for the future, but the updates are even more encouraging. The old winglet has been replaced with 2 smaller wings in a higher position...looks to me like those are designed with a Sauber-style exhaust in mind. As for the engine cover seen on Thursday that wasn't used - we wouldn't need it because the hot air comes out of the acer ducts... so this new engine cover would suggest the acer ducts won't be around for much longer and the radiator position may change.

Sounds like we are designing a Ferrauber.

Yup maybe that's the best way to go, look at Red Bull they copied it and look at how dramatically it bettered their car compared to the old one Vettel used today. Ferrari should gain a significant amount of lap time from it, but just how much is anyone's guess. Once they get that exhaust on and find the right setup, they can choose a development path for the rest of the season. But something tells me that Ferrari will persist with the old design in the form of the Acer ducts...I don't know why but i think it might make a reappearance in Mugello.

[Jose Lorca]

IIRC Whitmarh said his 2012 exhaust recovers 25% of the downforce produced by the EBD. So I'd guess the McLaren/Sauber exhausts would be worth somewhere between 3-5 tenths. Fry says here that "we now understand that and are on top of that" - referring to the exhausts we struggled with in testing. So I'm confident our exhausts will work in Mugello, however the exhaust is just one of the problems we have.

The biggest issue as mentioned by the team is poor aero-efficiency, which in turn gives us poor straight line speed and poor traction from the slow and medium corners. A revised cooling system and the subsequent removal of the acer ducts should those problems - and the exhaust will give us some extra rear downforce.

[scuderiafan]

@Crucial. Nice picture, thanks. Looks like 3 or 4 of 5 updates have been seen now.

IIRC Whitmarh said his 2012 exhaust recovers 25% of the downforce produced by the EBD. So I'd guess the McLaren/Sauber exhausts would be worth somewhere between 3-5 tenths. Fry says here that "we now understand that and are on top of that" - referring to the exhausts we struggled with in testing. So I'm confident our exhausts will work in Mugello, however the exhaust is just one of the problems we have.

The biggest issue as mentioned by the team is poor aero-efficiency, which in turn gives us poor straight line speed and poor traction from the slow and medium corners. A revised cooling system and the subsequent removal of the acer ducts should those problems - and the exhaust will give us some extra rear downforce.

Interesting, because that is what Fry said of the original exhaust solution on the Ferrari as well. He said that they can get back at least 25% of it. Here is the article.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formu...rformance.aspx

And on the top speed, if you look at the size of rear wing Ferrari have, it is massive! Compare that to the Sauber and Lotus, and you see how much wing Ferrari seem to have to put on their car, and RedBull's wing is also pretty large. Sems like the teams with 'bad' exhausts are having to compromise their drag. But looking at the figures, it seems the Ferrari's speed trap is not so bad compared to McLaren, who are only abou 0.7km/h faster. The main problem IMO is traction or lack of it. I wonder how they will solve that.

[F1NAC]

hm if they solve the problem known as acer ducts , our rear end would be lower and suspension would be softer ?

[Nova]

I saw the vid of Matchet explaining a few things today, he touched on the Mercs wing inlets, and mentioned how he thinks the tubing goes to the front of the car to stall the front wing..then got into the slot on the RB nose, and how that tubing goes to the rear of the car for down force. Im wondering why more teams arent utilizing a slot on the step nose.
I mean, its simply a blunt step. It cant be good aero wise.

I also mentioned in a previous post on how the Sauber changed their rear susp to a pullrod concept to lower the rear of the car, tidy it up. I think they still use a pushrod for the front, as does everyone except Ferrari. If there is a sweet spot to using pullrod on the front, I sure hope Ferrari find it, as I think it causes balance problems. Matchet has mentioned a few times about the problems of using it.

Something I dont understand is how the different configs of exhaust are effecting RB and Ferrari, where Sauber and Mac appear to have that in hand.

[Omegablue]

Something I dont understand is how the different configs of exhaust are effecting RB and Ferrari, where Sauber and Mac appear to have that in hand.

It's basically how the deviated air from over and around the bodywork doesn't cause turbulance when reaching the hot air from the exhausts. That turbulance breaks the downforce gathered. RB and Ferrari have yet to find their sweet spot.
The cars before 2008 didn't have these issues, as the wings from over the sidepods to the inner rear wheels flatten whatever turbulance into downforce, as well the exhuasts then were allowed at a higher and more central position, but that's gone to prevent dirty air against the cars following them.

[Alfa159]

lotus and mclaren brought updates here, especially mclaren who brought an 'extensive package'

how come ferrari was closer then? especially on a track that doesn't suit them? do Ferrari upgrades > McLaren upgrades?

Yep, like I said before playing catch up!!!

[scuderiafan]

Yep, like I said before playing catch up!!!

In terms of pace, It wasn't bad. Felipe had a good race. He finished in front of the lotus he was racing - raikkonen
Alonso was with Hamilton until he went off.

[Alfa159]

In terms of pace, It wasn't bad. Felipe had a good race. He finished in front of the lotus he was racing - raikkonen
Alonso was with Hamilton until he went off.

So if you think finishing behind a Mercedes, McLaren Mercedes, Red Bull, Lotus, Williams, Sauber and Force India but finishing in front of Raikkonen, whose tyres were gone, isn't a bad result then you're easily pleased!

The fact that Alonso went off may have changed just one position .... like I said before we are playing catch-up, all these teams in front of us are developing their cars too!

[scuderiafan]

So if you think finishing behind a Mercedes, McLaren Mercedes, Red Bull, Lotus, Williams, Sauber and Force India but finishing in front of Raikkonen, whose tyres were gone, isn't a bad result then you're easily pleased!

The fact that Alonso went off may have changed just one position .... like I said before we are playing catch-up, all these teams in front of us are developing their cars too!

Before the mistake Alonso was 4th, fighting Lewis. That is 1 Merc and 2 Mclarens. IMO, for most of the race the pace was there with the bulls. Just one mistake, and it went away.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Before the mistake Alonso was 4th, fighting Lewis. That is 1 Merc and 2 Mclarens. IMO, for most of the race the pace was there with the bulls. Just one mistake, and it went away.

Alonso was not fourth before the mistake, he was much lower than that, there were 2 Williams and other cars ahead of him. To say that he was fourth would mean to say the cars in front were about to be lapped, which they weren't. The pace was their at the start, there is no doubt about that but i think as the race went on that pace diminished and had the front runners not been held up by traffic and every car was running in clear air, Alonso would not have been close enough to capitalize on any mistakes.
Having said that, I do wonder what may have been if Alonso was not pitted with Hamilton...

[scuderiafan]

Okay then before they both went into pits. Luckily for Lewis he had nice top speed, so he could overtake the 2 Williams and get back to where he was, but Alonso IMO had the pace to be thee, but not the top speed.

[Jose Lorca]

In terms of pace, It wasn't bad. Felipe had a good race. He finished in front of the lotus he was racing - raikkonen
Alonso was with Hamilton until he went off.

I'm not sure about our pace. We were close to Hamilton and nearly passed him on the out-lap but after that he was pulling away from us. I'm still trying to make sense of that race - how did that train of drivers make their tyres last? I was sure they were going to pit again.

Looking at the Championship, I'm glad Rosberg won because it means nobody is dominating so when we will finally get our car on the same level as the leaders, the gap in the championship shouldn't be too far.

[Gerhard Berger]

Okay then before they both went into pits. Luckily for Lewis he had nice top speed, so he could overtake the 2 Williams and get back to where he was, but Alonso IMO had the pace to be thee, but not the top speed.

we were only about 1km/h slower than the Mclarens in the speed trap.

[Klutch]

I'm not sure about our pace. We were close to Hamilton and nearly passed him on the out-lap but after that he was pulling away from us. I'm still trying to make sense of that race - how did that train of drivers make their tyres last?

That was possible because the track was cold.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

The important thing though is that the car looks better now.

[scuderiafan]

we were only about 1km/h slower than the Mclarens in the speed trap.

With drs though. I bet without, the car is much slower. The team said as much that top speed hurt them.
I'm not gonna lie, I think Bahrain could be bad for Ferrari. More traction corners and turns 9-10 could be a killer.

[Gerhard Berger]

With drs though. I bet without, the car is much slower. The team said as much that top speed hurt them.
I'm not gonna lie, I think Bahrain could be bad for Ferrari. More traction corners and turns 9-10 could be a killer.

There is also a huge bump where our drivers will probably have to lift because we run our suspension so stiff.

[Kyss4k]

Before the mistake Alonso was 4th, fighting Lewis. That is 1 Merc and 2 Mclarens. IMO, for most of the race the pace was there with the bulls. Just one mistake, and it went away.

He was fighting Lewis on the outlap. After that Lewis started to disapearing from Alonso and if there wasn't the pack of +-10 cars on one pile, he would have flew away from him.

[burak karakutuk]

"And then we will improve for Barcelona, but we will improve three of four tenths. That's the improvement most teams have for Europe. So if we improve five or six tenths and the rest four, then we'll gain two tenths."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98874

[Kyss4k]

"And then we will improve for Barcelona, but we will improve three of four tenths. That's the improvement most teams have for Europe. So if we improve five or six tenths and the rest four, then we'll gain two tenths."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98874

In the other words: "No way we can catch those guys ahead..."

[burak karakutuk]

In the other words: "No way we can catch those guys ahead..."

Yeah unfortunately,or we may be closer in Europe but 0.2s nothing more.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

You know, i miss seeing a Ferrari on pole...I don't remember how it feels

[FrankAlfa]

All this negative speak! Why? 6 / 10's, 2 / 10's, etc. Understand that there is no finite speed to be gained and every team will have incrimental gains at any given time. No one team owns the market on Race Car development. All teams are racing towards greater downforce but the gains are not linear and are not even for even when comparing one team's development to another. The whole idea here is every team must work hard to opimum each respective conceptual design. So in the end, the design with the greatest room for improvement to gain the most downforce will be the fastest. Ferrari are developing their very new, different race car and it may take many races for them to get the most out of the Race Car but the end product could be the best tool lap times. Only time will tell. We do not know how much development is possible in any of the other design and that is the real question. Ferrari's developemnt of the F2012 vs. the development of the other teams is the real unknown. Do not dispair, for Ferrari are a very skilled bunch and they have always known how to develop a race car. 2010 was a perfect example. Ferrari will get back to winning and that is for certain.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[burak karakutuk]

All this negative speak! Why? 6 / 10's, 2 / 10's, etc. Understand that there is no finite speed to be gained and every team will have incrimental gains at any given time. No one team owns the market on Race Car development. All teams are racing towards greater downforce but the gains are not linear and are not even for even when comparing one team's development to another. The whole idea here is every team must work hard to opimum each respective conceptual design. So in the end, the design with the greatest room for improvement to gain the most downforce will be the fastest. Ferrari are developing their very new, different race car and it may take many races for them to get the most out of the Race Car but the end product could be the best tool lap times. Only time will tell. We do not know how much development is possible in any of the other design and that is the real question. Ferrari's developemnt of the F2012 vs. the development of the other teams is the real unknown. Do not dispair, for Ferrari are a very skilled bunch and they have always known how to develop a race car. 2010 was a perfect example. Ferrari will get back to winning and that is for certain.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Generally,i am a patient person and dont react negative but if someone especially a team member like Alonso says that we will improve 0.3-0.4s it's normal that i begin to worry.We need much more this 0.4 or whatever it is.The confusing thing is Alonso saying at the end if we can do it 0.2s more?And i wonder what is this,isnt update clear or planned before?So team must know how much performans we can gain with an update.They have a lot of tools to measure.And we all know every team bringing some updates and gain some performans.How could i be optimistic while team members are not?

[burak karakutuk]

You know, i miss seeing a Ferrari on pole...I don't remember how it feels

yeah me too.two years have passed without a pole position.time will tell if we can fight pole and victories again

[Hornet]

Only time will tell, but there is a possibility that certain development path Ferrari choose may not have worked out as expected.

Scarb's twitter asked that could the Sauber's downwash exhaust concept be a template for many team in Spain? That may prove to be the most effective exhaust design this year. Red Bull are pursuing that path too, and I believe McLaren is using that concept too.

Ferrari needs to comfirm their exhaust design as soon as possible so that if its not working as expected, they should quickly abandon it and start working on the downwash concept.

[TheProdigalSon]

Only time will tell, but there is a possibility that certain development path Ferrari choose may not have worked out as expected.

Scarb's twitter asked that could the Sauber's downwash exhaust concept be a template for many team in Spain? That may prove to be the most effective exhaust design this year. Red Bull are pursuing that path too, and I believe McLaren is using that concept too.

Ferrari needs to comfirm their exhaust design as soon as possible so that if its not working as expected, they should quickly abandon it and start working on the downwash concept.

Marc Gene said Ferrari will have Sauber style exhaust's for Mugello/Spain.