Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

That is very interesting..but why would they let something like that out?

could be just the media spin there so interested in what were gonna come up with next year!

[Hornet]

That is very interesting..but why would they let something like that out?

Venturi effect is nothing new in autoracing as far as I know. Cars run closer to ground to create that pinching effect to accelerate the air flowing below the car, so that the pressure below the car would be lesser than that above the car, creating downforce.

The term venturi effect certainly isn't referring to any particular technique invented in F1. Its a physical phenomena, not a race car's technology or design technique.

My best guess would be, that it is referring to a certain technique that utilizes venturi effect. I'm sure there are many technique that make use of venturi effect. We can't tell what it is really referring too.

[scuderiafan]

Venturi effect is nothing new in autoracing as far as I know. Cars run closer to ground to create that pinching effect to accelerate the air flowing below the car, so that the pressure below the car would be lesser than that above the car, creating downforce.

The term venturi effect certainly isn't referring to any particular technique invented in F1. Its a physical phenomena, not a race car's technology or design technique.

My best guess would be, that it is referring to a certain technique that utilizes venturi effect. I'm sure there are many technique that make use of venturi effect. We can't tell what it is really referring too.

so the tweet could be referring to a new 'solution' to aid venturi effect that was in Rory Byrne's B195? Tombazis was also at Benetton then, wasnt he?

[burak karakutuk]

According to AMuS, Mercedes is developing a FW F-duct for their 2012 car, which they have tested in Suzuka
http://forums.autosport.com/index.ph...ic=155944&st=0

What say you about this?I know it is for Mercedes but i wanted to post it here.Please give your valuable ideas

[Tifoso]

According to AMuS, Mercedes is developing a FW F-duct for their 2012 car, which they have tested in Suzuka
http://forums.autosport.com/index.ph...ic=155944&st=0

What say you about this?I know it is for Mercedes but i wanted to post it here.Please give your valuable ideas

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...nt-wing-F-Duct

[burak karakutuk]

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...nt-wing-F-Duct

Oh thank you how could i miss it.You had already started this thread

[Hornet]

so the tweet could be referring to a new 'solution' to aid venturi effect that was in Rory Byrne's B195? Tombazis was also at Benetton then, wasnt he?

Perhaps. The tweet is very vague. It just sounds like they are reviving an idea Byrne came up with for the B195 back then. Anyone remember if there's anything special with that car?

Yeah, you're right, IIRC, Tombazis was in that team too that year. Interesting

BTW, I tried searching online to see if there's anything special with that B195, and I found quite a few reference to McLaren's current sidepod.

There is no doubting the new MP4-26 is very different from all the other 2011 cars. Technical director Paddy Lowe has exploited to the extreme the idea of higher outer sidepods, last seen on the likes of Benetton's B195 from 1995 and Ferrari's F310 from 1996. The aim is to clean up and better direct the airflow to the beam wing at the rear of the car, an area now even more important thanks to the ban on double diffusers. This solution also gives McLaren the possibility of running Renault-style forward exhaust exits.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2011/0/833.html

If anyone knows anything else that was special with the B195, do share with us :p

[Homan13PSU]

a what? lol please explain :)

i know it's something to do with gas and pressure :s

The Venturi effect is in general what creates the ground effect scenario. When F1 cars ran with ground effects they had two tunnels on either side of the underside of the body called venturi tunnels that created the effect. It will be interesting to see (if we ever even get to see it) if they do implement something like this how they would work it within the restrictions of the cars underbody.

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

The Venturi effect is in general what creates the ground effect scenario. When F1 cars ran with ground effects they had two tunnels on either side of the underside of the body called venturi tunnels that created the effect. It will be interesting to see (if we ever even get to see it) if they do implement something like this how they would work it within the restrictions of the cars underbody.

ahhh thank you! what will that create more mechanical grip or just create more downforce?

[Jose Lorca]

Excellent thread.

I am very optimistic about 2012 and the first results (front wing changes) are very encouraging. No more subtle changes to an already conservative design. The new front wing proves that we are taking the risks and this is the right approach to take us back to the top. I can't wait to see what other 2012 parts will be tested.

Everything is looking good so far - wind tunnel is good, Byrne is back, Fry is taking more risks and EBD's are banned. We will surely be a strong force next year - I'm starting to believe Newey's time at the top may come to an end next year.

ahhh thank you! what will that create more mechanical grip or just create more downforce?

Downforce

[scuderiafan]

iirc rory was writing up new regs for 2013 with emphasis on ground effects.
maybe he found something?

I think the ground effect is a great way for getting downforce without getting much drag, but don't know why

[M.K]

Great thread scuderiafan

Not the first time i hear Ferrari working on Venturi effect on 2012 car...and I hope Rory find something

[Hornet]

The Venturi effect is in general what creates the ground effect scenario. When F1 cars ran with ground effects they had two tunnels on either side of the underside of the body called venturi tunnels that created the effect. It will be interesting to see (if we ever even get to see it) if they do implement something like this how they would work it within the restrictions of the cars underbody.

I think the current rules is pretty clear about no any shaped underbody. Its impossible to get around it at the moment

iirc rory was writing up new regs for 2013 with emphasis on ground effects.
maybe he found something?

I think the ground effect is a great way for getting downforce without getting much drag, but don't know why

So ground effect is coming back after all?

I remember it was proposed along with the new engine rule, but I'm not sure whats the status now

[Rob]

f1enigmaDimitris PAPADOPOULO

Domenicalli confirmed that the data gathered from the last GP on the new front wing matches the data from the windtunnel which is a gd sign

1 hour ago

[Rob]

I think the current rules is pretty clear about no any shaped underbody. Its impossible to get around it at the moment


So ground effect is coming back after all?

I remember it was proposed along with the new engine rule, but I'm not sure whats the status now

The Red Bull RB7, has sort of a ground effect already using the exhaust gases, thats why have the high rear rake. The EBD helps with that.

[scuderiafan]

I think the current rules is pretty clear about no any shaped underbody. Its impossible to get around it at the moment


So ground effect is coming back after all?

I remember it was proposed along with the new engine rule, but I'm not sure whats the status now

kind of, i guess but not anywhere like back then. those first rule changes were cancelled by the teams i think, and they will just be changing the wings.
Maybe Rory found something while writing up the rules?

[Ken]

This is a great idea and will probably be the most entertaining thread to watch through the off season months

And no doubt will include some Ferrari-red herrings for complete entertainment

[Hornet]

The Red Bull RB7, has sort of a ground effect already using the exhaust gases, thats why have the high rear rake. The EBD helps with that.

I see. Yeah, that EBD thing.

I thought you were referring to the old shaped floor thing, which as far as I know, current rules require the floor to be flat and it leaves no room for any other way.

kind of, i guess but not anywhere like back then. those first rule changes were cancelled by the teams i think, and they will just be changing the wings.
Maybe Rory found something while writing up the rules?

I see.

I really hope they will compensate somewhere, allowing more aggressive diffuser or shaped floor. I don't want to see the cars getting slower each year

[scuderiafan]

This is a great idea and will probably be the most entertaining thread to watch through the off season months

And no doubt will include some Ferrari-red herrings for complete entertainment

luckily for us, since the year finishes in November, and the launch will be January, so it is only 2 months! compared to around 3-4 months before.

EDIT:

Ferrari manages the wind-tunnel

"The data obtained in Maranello coincide with those seen in race," said Domenicali.

There are several, very different and many causes that Ferrari has been, once again, after Red Bull and McLaren, but in the top of the list appears Maranello wind tunnel. In the team realized when already several races that data from that installation of the factory, vital in the current F-1 dominated by aerodynamics, did not coincide with that were recorded in the track, still less in the races were contested.

The proportion of the car was not correct and that has burdened throughout the season for the red team. As a workaround, it threw hand of the tunnel of the former team Toyota in Cologne, but the damage was done, he had to change the entire car, make a new one so that all would be well. Under this premise, too good went 150 ° Italy.

But at the end, when there are only three races to finish this Championship, Ferrari has managed the wind tunnel. Stefano Domenicali said: "the data collected by the team in the Gallery of the wind in Maranello coincide with which we have seen in the race and in the Grand Prix of Korea on the new front wing, so it's a good sign." "Without doubt".

Now only lack the team captain Pat Fry, with Rory Byrne as Advisor and Nicolas Tombazis as a designer, make a car champion or at least one single-seat fast. "Don't need the best car, only a car competitive to win the world", said Alonso in Japan. Then that Ferrari can build it... - Manuel Franco

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...6np%2525253D22

so that is already a big step for next year. sod the aggressiveness, we actually have a working wind tunnel this time

[burak karakutuk]

luckily for us, since the year finishes in November, and the launch will be January, so it is only 2 months! compared to around 3-4 months before.

EDIT:

Ferrari manages the wind-tunnel

"The data obtained in Maranello coincide with those seen in race," said Domenicali.



http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...6np%2525253D22

so that is already a big step for next year. sod the aggressiveness, we actually have a working wind tunnel this time

well then can we use Toyota windtunnel again or we do use it already?because they are preparing for Le Mans and going to change their F1 facility

[scuderiafan]

Now this isnt 2012 yet, but going by what we saw, we will probably see these tested by Ferrari in India

Formula 1 technology of spy photos: Red Bull secrets unmasked

Highest level of secrecy prevails in F1. In terms of technique are particularly closed to Red Bull. All the more the competition was, as the RB7 at Monza suddenly unprotected stood on the platter. We have the pictures of photo spies.


Every Grand Prix weekend starts the hide-and-seek game again. If all the cars on the grid is, at Red Bull always most los. Here, the engineers of the competition, cavort to use the only chance of the weekend, look at the RB7 in the stand up close. As a defensive team principal Christian Horner, can be put up his mechanics before the particularly sensitive rear area in a semi-circle, to avoid too deep insight.


Copying is part of formula one to the good craftsmanship. And Red Bull it is as you know, always something to discover. Especially the "watchmen" sensitive, when approaching the rear a photographer. There is also coaxed and gepöb meet, if the lens in the direction of tailpipe or diffuser is directed. The cat and mouse game was Red Bull mostly the upper hand. If you wanted to photograph the delicately shaped air ducts in the rear, had to lie in the pitlane on the Lauer and be fast on the trigger.

Red bull RB7 is ready for launching on the hook


But the tide turned in Monza. Mark Webber crashed his car in the Parabolica in the tyre stack and the photographers had suddenly easy. The car was unprotected on the platter. To the delight of the spies, the marshals helped with. The Red Bull was shoehorned by crane into the air and once a few minutes left of the slopes, were all shot in the chest.


Our large photo gallery, we can give you now for the first time exclusively the Red out Bull show all perspectives in detail. Special interest in the competition arouses the wooden plate to the underbody. The front part is in the unusual traces of wear. The first 30 cm of the splitter seem to grind evenly on the road while driving. In other cars, the scores is rather irregularly distributed over the entire base.


Red bull underlay at the front of flexibly?


The competition thought that the front part of the plate is flexible, to bring closer to the tarmac the front wing. That would be however illegal. But so far the car in the FIA testing was not negative. The British technology expert Craig Scarborough has written an interesting theory to on its website, such as Red Bull get the feat. In his view the sub-floor with an axle-bearing suspension with the chassis is connected.


The system works like a reverse seesaw his opinion: at higher speeds, the downforce draws the splitter on the asphalt of the front wing. The front part of the subfloor is pressed through the loops on the slope to the top. The part behind the axle is pressed at the same time in a see-saw as down. Thus the floor in the front part is located on plan on the asphalt, the forces are better distributed and the wooden not too worn out.


The FIA checks the flexibility of the splitter with hydraulic punches. The sub-floor with the total length on a flat surface is provided in the Testanordnnug. The stamp try then to press the front part with specified powers up. Because the rear section behind the axis of rotation in the initial position is already flat on the ground, the see-saw is blocked. Thus also the front part can bend no longer.


See-sawing solution would be illegal


On demand of auto motor und sport, believes in principle, the FIA such a system possible, stressed at the same time but once again, that it would be illegal. Also the competition got wind of the theory. Allegedly, a top team has made even an official request to the guardian of the rule. Also the photo spies cannot find out what lies under the disguise. The FIA could however change its testing procedures.


With the images from Monza, auto motor und sport technology expert Giorgio piola has created a new 3D animation. The video, we have once again explained the most important elements in our photo gallery.

The Original AMuS article in German, with Video.

Scarbs also tweeted on it. The guys in Maranello should enjoy this, and i expect to see these same parts next week.
i bet Mark is getting badly scolded by newey now

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/b...t-4052416.html
and the photo gallery for the engineers.

EDIT: Autosport on the new front wing

[Hornet]

Thanks for the share, interesting read about Ferrari's front wing.

Love those RB pics too, LOL. Nice view of their diffuser, they have a flap around the diffuser. Which if I'm not mistaken, Scarbs mentioned that its an improvement over the gurney with a slot gap like what Ferrari is using right now.

[zakfourie]

ahhh thank you! what will that create more mechanical grip or just create more downforce?

More downforce. Downforce is king in F1...but I won't bore you with the maths explaining it...

The way the car utilizes the tyres has to do with the mechanical grip.
This is mainly influenced by the suspension geometry and design,
and further but not so big is also centre of gravity, centre aero pressure point/balance
and the weight distribution (which is now fixed by regulation).

This is how I understand it, I may speak under correction.

[Nova]

Great post ScuderiaFan..or do you prefer Vadar?

[scuderiafan]

Great post ScuderiaFan..or do you prefer Vadar?

I love it!

[05alonso06]

hello everyone

fantastic thread

any news Scuderiafan?

[scuderiafan]

it's pretty quiet righ now, but I think we will be getting sone news in the next few days, as they have their racing news vids on their website.

[05alonso06]

it's pretty quiet righ now, but I think we will be getting sone news in the next few days, as they have their racing news vids on their website.

that "venturi efect" rumor is very intersting to me
those kind of things i meam major things can be decisive
front wing f-duct may be merc.way to speed up that air below the car but i hope we have something better
we need to look at all of the pictures on the upcoming races not to miss anything
also in the previus years Newey seamed to be much more confident about their new car now he's saying ebd ban will hurt us......this that

[scuderiafan]

that "venturi efect" rumor is very intersting to me
those kind of things i meam major things can be decisive
front wing f-duct may be merc.way to speed up that air below the car but i hope we have something better
we need to look at all of the pictures on the upcoming races not to miss anything
also in the previus years Newey seamed to be much more confident about their new car now he's saying ebd ban will hurt us......this that

yeah. Newey also said that the EBD ban would hurt them in SIlverstone, but then they took front row.
I would not trust what even he says.
i also hope that we have something better.

[05alonso06]

yeah. Newey also said that the EBD ban would hurt them in SIlverstone, but then they took front row.
I would not trust what even he says.
i also hope that we have something better.

yes but if they had the EBD in Silverstone they would destroy us there
EBD ban will defently hurt Mclaren the most,remember pre-season testing before they switched to redbull-exoust system