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Thread: Exotic engine maps to be banned from 2012

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    Exotic engine maps to be banned from 2012

    In the last 24 hours it appears that a clarification has gone out from the FIA’s Charlie Whiting to all teams regarding exotic engine maps, to the effect that they aren’t allowed after the end of this 2011 season.
    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/1...-to-designers/


    Of course, teams could ask for 'reliability upgrades'.

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    hope ross is happy now.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    hope ross is happy now.
    well.. if Merc get a 1-2 in Aus.. then maybe
    Michael Schumacher - the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    well.. if Merc get a 1-2 in Aus.. then maybe
    lol hope not. maybe 3-4


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    Good news, and sensible approach to change the rules prior to the racing starting and not having the usual soap opera during the season But I am sure there will still be something appearing that causes a fuss. Interesting comments about the tractors front wing too
    Forza Ferrari

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    I guess the engine reliability concern for Red Bull and Renault will magically disappear next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Interesting comments about the tractors front wing too

    The future is RED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Good news, and sensible approach to change the rules prior to the racing starting and not having the usual soap opera during the season But I am sure there will still be something appearing that causes a fuss. Interesting comments about the tractors front wing too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Good news, and sensible approach to change the rules prior to the racing starting and not having the usual soap opera during the season But I am sure there will still be something appearing that causes a fuss. Interesting comments about the tractors front wing too
    There's a good quiz question. What was the last year that no technical scandal errupted or technical rule clarification was required during the whole season?

    Answers on a plain postcard (280 gsm non laminated) with no staples or folds please!

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

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    So, this means no throttle on the way the reno/rb have been using it? If thats the case, then that sort of shoots the exhaust thread thing to bits, dont it?
    Didnt merc oppose this also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    So, this means no throttle on the way the reno/rb have been using it? If thats the case, then that sort of shoots the exhaust thread thing to bits, dont it?
    Not necessarily so. If RB can hide some sort of cheat for the start of the 2012 season, then, for the rest of the year, Horner would probably run the same line as this year - you can't enforce anything until the following year. Although I'd hope this time they wouldn't succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    Not necessarily so. If RB can hide some sort of cheat for the start of the 2012 season, then, for the rest of the year, Horner would probably run the same line as this year - you can't enforce anything until the following year. Although I'd hope this time they wouldn't succeed.
    It's embarrassing reading your posts
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    Not necessarily so. If RB can hide some sort of cheat for the start of the 2012 season, then, for the rest of the year, Horner would probably run the same line as this year - you can't enforce anything until the following year. Although I'd hope this time they wouldn't succeed.
    He does have a point, if you look at the past few seasons, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    It's embarrassing reading your posts
    people entitle to have opnion and you need to learn polite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagi58 View Post
    He does have a point, if you look at the past few seasons, eh?
    Give me some examples of other teams cheating then?

    Quote Originally Posted by peta_w View Post
    people entitle to have opnion and you need to learn polite.
    Not when it's constant allegations against others cheating without foundation, embarrassing.

    But as you say people are allowed to have an opinion and that is my opinion on his posts ever since Silverstone.
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    well.. if Merc get a 1-2 in Aus.. then maybe
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    Not necessarily so. If RB can hide some sort of cheat for the start of the 2012 season, then, for the rest of the year, Horner would probably run the same line as this year - you can't enforce anything until the following year. Although I'd hope this time they wouldn't succeed.
    They will not be able to hide any sort of exotic engine mapping or use it for the EBD. As, the exhausts got to exit top of body work away from the diffusser or even the rear beam wing. So, they cannt cheat or hide any sort of EBD or anything like that to give them an advantge by using the diffuser.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    They will not be able to hide any sort of exotic engine mapping or use it for the EBD. As, the exhausts got to exit top of body work away from the diffusser or even the rear beam wing. So, they cannt cheat or hide any sort of EBD or anything like that to give them an advantge by using the diffuser.
    Well, I'd agree that right now the FiA is stating that's their intention, and, I hope they execute it. But I don't share your faith. They stated the intention to ban DDD's in '09 and EBD's were supposed to be ended this year.

    I read what you say the new exhaust rules will be next year, but, as of now the specifics of how the new rules are not defined. And even when there are rules that appear to be specific, and even when the FiA comes out and states rules are being broken, we have seen that does not necessarily mean the FiA will take action. Remember this year the FiA have a rule that requires them to introduce further load and deflection tests on any part that appears to move or is even "suspected" of moving.

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    DDD's were all new in 2009 the FIA did not state to ban them for 2009 in fact Ferrari went to court and the FIA ruled them legal (but you will say others cheated), they did for 2010, again the facts seem lost when it comes to your allegations and bitterness. Again the FIA did not attempt to ban EBD's in the 2011 rule book until Silverstone, but nevermind carry on embarrassing yourself, sad to see really.

    Off course you will ignore this as the truth does not fit in well with your FIA is evil and all the rest cheat paranoia, totally childish from a grown man
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    Well, I'd agree that right now the FiA is stating that's their intention, and, I hope they execute it. But I don't share your faith. They stated the intention to ban DDD's in '09 and EBD's were supposed to be ended this year.

    I read what you say the new exhaust rules will be next year, but, as of now the specifics of how the new rules are not defined. And even when there are rules that appear to be specific, and even when the FiA comes out and states rules are being broken, we have seen that does not necessarily mean the FiA will take action. Remember this year the FiA have a rule that requires them to introduce further load and deflection tests on any part that appears to move or is even "suspected" of moving.
    with the exhaust exiting the top of the body work, there will be no need for off throttle mappings, as they will not (allowed, banned) feeding the diffusser. Hence no more EBD and "cheating"
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    To be fair to Red Bull, blown diffuser is nothing new. Teams used to use it before they were forced to use the higher exit exhaust due to reliability problem. Its interesting to note that Newey, then at McLaren, was among the last to stop using blown diffuser, only stopping at the request of the engine manufacturer for reliability concerns according to an article at Scarbs. You could say Newey is one of the veteren blown diffuser designer around.

    Anyway the blown diffuser we see today is merely revisiting an old idea, an idea that was never illegal or ever an issue until recently. Its not even a gray area as far as I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    with the exhaust exiting the top of the body work, there will be no need for off throttle mappings, as they will not (allowed, banned) feeding the diffusser. Hence no more EBD and "cheating"
    I do hope you are right, but it will be interesting to see what the rule actually says. As I mentioned earlier, they said they were ending EBD's this year and said they were closing the front of the diffuser where the exhaust is blown in, yet, when they unveiled the new rules for this year, the diffuser front was closed, but there was an inexplicable 5cm opening left on either side. I hope when the actual rules come out they don't leave another 5cm opening somewhere in the exhausts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    there will be no need for off throttle mappings
    Surely you couldn't possibly mean these exotic engine mappings are using the moving engine to create an aero effect? I thought they were needed for reliability

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    I do hope you are right, but it will be interesting to see what the rule actually says. As I mentioned earlier, they said they were ending EBD's this year and said they were closing the front of the diffuser where the exhaust is blown in, yet, when they unveiled the new rules for this year, the diffuser front was closed, but there was an inexplicable 5cm opening left on either side. I hope when the actual rules come out they don't leave another 5cm opening somewhere in the exhausts


    Surely you couldn't possibly mean these exotic engine mappings are using the moving engine to create an aero effect? I thought they were needed for reliability
    Both, of course.

    I'm quite sure Newey is already working on a solution around this little 'handicap'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, they said they were ending EBD's this year
    More lies, ignore ignore ignore LOL
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    To be fair to Red Bull, blown diffuser is nothing new. Teams used to use it before they were forced to use the higher exit exhaust due to reliability problem. Its interesting to note that Newey, then at McLaren, was among the last to stop using blown diffuser, only stopping at the request of the engine manufacturer for reliability concerns according to an article at Scarbs. You could say Newey is one of the veteren blown diffuser designer around.

    Anyway the blown diffuser we see today is merely revisiting an old idea, an idea that was never illegal or ever an issue until recently. Its not even a gray area as far as I know.
    As you say the blown diffuser has been around for a long time, and wasn't illegal. I think the issue with it has been best put in LCdM's general argument that aeros form too much of F1. And I tend to agree on that point.

    On the other hand, I tend to agree with the position Charlie Whiting took on the extreme overruns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
    Both, of course.

    I'm quite sure Newey is already working on a solution around this little 'handicap'.
    That's what I fear. saying your going to end something and doing it are different things. I remember reading an article on Scarbs that specifically mentioned the rule changes implemented at the start of this year to end EBD's. Found the article and here's the quote:-
    Although the rules were revised for 2011 to try to prevent double diffuser and openings to allow the exhaust to blow inside the diffuser.

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    So you will take back your earlier comments with said quote nowhere did the FIA ban EBD's as they are doing this year, thanks
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    That's what I fear. saying your going to end something and doing it are different things. I remember reading an article on Scarbs that specifically mentioned the rule changes implemented at the start of this year to end EBD's. Found the article and here's the quote:-
    Although the rules were revised for 2011 to try to prevent double diffuser and openings to allow the exhaust to blow inside the diffuser.
    OH CMON!
    Why on earth are you qouting another mans opinion as the truth? EBD's where NEVER banned. What was banned where the open fronted diffusers. Get your facts straight.

    Read here for the difference of open and closed EBDs:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/1...lown-diffuser/

    Read here for what is legal and what is not for 2011:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...and-diffusers/

    Bonus read since you seem to believe only RBR used EBD at the start of this season:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...lown-diffuser/

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    Quote Originally Posted by kazi View Post
    OH CMON!
    Why on earth are you qouting another mans opinion as the truth?
    Because I respect Scarbs knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazi View Post
    EBD's where NEVER banned. What was banned where the open fronted diffusers. Get your facts straight.
    I was bemoaning that they weren't banned. When they stated they were closing the front of the diffuser. Had they actually done that it would have ended blowing through the diffuser. But instead they left those 5cms on each side.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazi View Post
    Read here for the difference of open and closed EBDs:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/1...lown-diffuser/

    Read here for what is legal and what is not for 2011:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...and-diffusers/

    Bonus read since you seem to believe only RBR used EBD at the start of this season:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...lown-diffuser/
    Good articles, enjoyed them the first time round. I think that fire for Felipe was the only serious problem we had during the pre-season, back when things looked so much more promising for us

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    Quote Originally Posted by kazi View Post
    OH CMON!
    Why on earth are you qouting another mans opinion as the truth? EBD's where NEVER banned. What was banned where the open fronted diffusers. Get your facts straight.

    Read here for the difference of open and closed EBDs:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/1...lown-diffuser/

    Read here for what is legal and what is not for 2011:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...and-diffusers/

    Bonus read since you seem to believe only RBR used EBD at the start of this season:
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...lown-diffuser/
    Indeed but be as well talking to a brick wall
    Forza Ferrari

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