Massa speaks about Hamilton

[Poltergeistes]

But that is also one of his faults.



Which is exactly why he has lacked the opportunity to develop in certain areas. I have no intention of starting a discussion on child psychology, but you might agree that in some cases, someone who "has things their way" all the time will grow up with certain character flaws.

And I did not mean lack of opportunities in terms of racing career alone, I meant in terms of life in general.

I understand you now! finally huh? lol yes i have to agree, having dad making decisions for him all his life, having mclaren making sure he always had the cars and series and costs he would need. he never b4 had to take responsibility at anything wrong he's done. i think your right. he is probably growing up in that aspect only in the last 2 seasons, funny thing about is that it happens as soon as button came to the team, hamilton was no more the sum of everything, and he just cant deal with it, he's never been in a position where he had to share the attention, remember when fernando was there, hamilton even managed to cry so much, that mclaren kicked sand on the face of a 2 times champion just in order to make lewis happy.

[Sha1]

I understand you now! finally huh? lol yes i have to agree, having dad making decisions for him all his life, having mclaren making sure he always had the cars and series and costs he would need. he never b4 had to take responsibility at anything wrong he's done. i think your right. he is probably growing up in that aspect only in the last 2 seasons, funny thing about is that it happens as soon as button came to the team, hamilton was no more the sum of everything, and he just cant deal with it, he's never been in a position where he had to share the attention, remember when fernando was there, hamilton even managed to cry so much, that mclaren kicked sand on the face of a 2 times champion just in order to make lewis happy.

[Ferrari_gal]

Don't be so harsh. Lewis has PERSONAL PROBLEMS THAT NO-ONE ELSE HAS EVER HAD BEFORE.
How insensitive are you?
GET A GRIP.

What a joke ... (hope it is)

[dicec2]

Not to get off track, but the American Speed commentators were questioning Massa's suspensions problems this weekend. They mentioned that with all the vibrations that experimental wing was putting on the car, did it weaken the suspension in a critical area, so that when he hit the curb (which almost every driver was doing today), was his extra fragile? When you look at the wing, it's vibrating tremendously and I know that can't be good for the rest of the car. I'm a pilot of a propeller plane, and if one blade is even just 1 degree out, it'll shake the plane so bad, I can't even read any of the gauges. At that point, the only thing I can do is shut an engine down and hope I got the correct engine off. I can't imagine the vibrations of that car at 200 mph. What do you think?

[Rishu]

Not to get off track, but the American Speed commentators were questioning Massa's suspensions problems this weekend. They mentioned that with all the vibrations that experimental wing was putting on the car, did it weaken the suspension in a critical area, so that when he hit the curb (which almost every driver was doing today), was his extra fragile? When you look at the wing, it's vibrating tremendously and I know that can't be good for the rest of the car. I'm a pilot of a propeller plane, and if one blade is even just 1 degree out, it'll shake the plane so bad, I can't even read any of the gauges. At that point, the only thing I can do is shut an engine down and hope I got the correct engine off. I can't imagine the vibrations of that car at 200 mph. What do you think?

Interesting. Could be possible

[Ferrari_gal]

I don't think it's necessary to bring Hamilton's personal life into racing discussions, as it seems to be happening quite frequently now. No celebrity deserves enough of your attention to have their personal life spoken about. Just my opinion.

So why then does he bring his personal problems to a race ?

[giodap]

forgive me if this has already been spoken about but we have had two deaths in motorsport recently, all the drivers made the effort to have something on their car, helmet or race suit to honour and remember them this weekend....... lewis hamilton has bob marley???........im sorry but whatever is going on in his personal life at the moment is not even on the same scale as to what has happend recently. In my opinion he now looks even more selfish and more stupid than usual. WELL DONE LEWIS

[F2008]

I would rather Felipe turned in every single time, rather than jump out the way for someone, that is just me though maybe

Next time Lewis might not be so confident he can make Massa move over and get out his way, he sees Massa as a easy target IMO

Very true.

I don't understand Hamilton, he has DRS available yet he tries to overtake him in (like DC said) "a one car corner".

[Stormsearcher]

Very true.

I don't understand Hamilton, he has DRS available yet he tries to overtake him in (like DC said) "a one car corner".

Thats cause it will then make him look like Senna.

[F2008]

Thats cause it will then make him look like Senna.

Probably, he was like or you let me through, or we both crash. So they gave way.

[NJB13]

Thats cause it will then make him look like Senna.

A lobotomy would have a better chance of making him like Senna

[Stormsearcher]

Probably, he was like or you let me through, or we both crash. So they gave way.

That has been his philosophy since day 1.

[Tifosi]

I think he (alonsomaniac) is making a valid point in saying that when dealing with lewis at least for a while maybe it's better for felipe to easy up on him, all of the times this season felipe fought for the position, and everytime he did, lewis pretty much put him in a position where, either felipe gets out of his way or he will destroy massa's race, and lewis has succeded in every single time, he might have not succeded himself cause he was punished, but he surely destroyed every race felipe was going good.

By "easy up on him" do you mean "defer to him for an easy life?"

Is it wiser to abandon your racing principles and the rights given to you by the rules of racing just because one driver cannot be trusted? Maybe if Lewis is wreckless long enough (and lucky enough with the stewards afterwards) he can strike enough fear into most drivers to just let him by. That way he wont have to learn to race properly again and Massa will be happy because he finished the race but will never be able to win it if Hamilton choses to come anywhere near him.

Is it more important that Felipe maximises his chance of finishing the race by calculating the margins of error likely to be thrust upon him by each guy behind him and letting some of them through as a result or that he races to his maximum ability?

I appreciate that i'm sounding sarcastic and facetious here and I apologise but isn't this asking a driver to go against what he is there for? Unless Felipe was fighting for the points necessary to win the WDC or WCC for Ferrari at that particular race - and could affort to let Lewis through and STILL maintain his goal - why should he just give in to the idiot behind him in case he causes him trouble?

I'm glad that Massa chooses to be a racer and not a fall guy for everyone else that has a problem with it Good job I say

[Fyre]

If this incident happened on some other turn, maybe this should be a penalty for Massa, but this particular turn had one clean line with only enough room for 1 car. Can't understand why the stewards believe Massa shouldn't have turned in or should've left space for Hamilton as that would've meant Massa would've taken to the dirty (sorry, make that filthy) line around the turn. Why should he take the dirty line just because someone else is making half a move on him? Hamilton should've lifted for Massa knowing there was no space for him. Hamilton should've waited for a better corner to make the pass, but as usual he doesn't think before attempting the overtake. From my armchair this was avoidable, Massa had the line and Lewis had the opportunity to back off, Massa had no other option IMO.

[epiclyaddicted]

If this incident happened on some other turn, maybe this should be a penalty for Massa, but this particular turn had one clean line with only enough room for 1 car. Can't understand why the stewards believe Massa shouldn't have turned in or should've left space for Hamilton as that would've meant Massa would've taken to the dirty (sorry, make that filthy) line around the turn. Why should he take the dirty line just because someone else is making half a move on him? Hamilton should've lifted for Massa knowing there was no space for him. Hamilton should've waited for a better corner to make the pass, but as usual he doesn't think before attempting the overtake. From my armchair this was avoidable, Massa had the line and Lewis had the opportunity to back off, Massa had no other option IMO.

+1

[Meiga]

Very true.

I don't understand Hamilton, he has DRS available yet he tries to overtake him in (like DC said) "a one car corner".

I think that he knew the only reason he was so close to Massa was Massa's mistake a few turns earlier. Probably he thought that if he did not make a quick move, Massa would leave him behind again. At least, Gené and De la Rosa were making a similar comment while explaining why Massa was defending so hard just before the crash: their explanation was that, had Massa thought he had a worse pace than Hamilton, he would have been better off not fighting the inevitable (ie being overtaken at some point, particularly on the DRS zone) but doing his own race. But they both said that Massa knew that it had been his mistake that had allowed Hamilton to catch up with him, and hence he had to be aggressive in defending and open the gap again.

[Alessandra]

Felipe: So am I supposed to back off and let him through?

Yes, Felipe, that's exactly what you and every other driver on the track is supposed to do. That's ben the rule since 2007.

It's my belief this year that some drivers are refusing to co-operate in this re-writing of the rule book (Maldonado, Button amongst them) and this is what's causing poor LH all this heartache and pain.

I'm looking forward to seeing the words "throwing', "toys" and "pram" appearing in the same sentence in the British media to descibe his current behaviour, but I expect I'll be waiting a very long time.

[ayerct]

Need someone new other than Massa...broken a Ferrari twice in 2 days

[schumi1]

Leave felipe alone.

[Suzie]

I would rather Felipe turned in every single time, rather than jump out the way for someone, that is just me though maybe

Next time Lewis might not be so confident he can make Massa move over and get out his way, he sees Massa as a easy target IMO

Completely agree. I don't think Lewis has any respect for Felipe on the track whatsoever; he thinks he can just bully his way past. I'd like to know at what point Lewis will get it into his teeny, tiny brain that Felipe isn't just going to yield and not put up a fight.

Agree with Poltergeistes too when he says that the scoreboard doesn't reflect Felipe's driving this year. He got podiums last year but his driving has been better this year IMO, and yesterday he was having a good race until Mr Brain Fade himself intervened yet again.

impactX - I think you need to update your 'teammate war' signature. Just a heads up

[Alfettafan]

Surprisingly this is on Autosport this lunchtime...

In defence of Felipe Massa
Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa collided again in India. It was the sixth time this season, and this time the stewards deemed the Ferrari driver at fault. But Tony Dodgins doesn't agree, in fact he thinks the referee had a shocker!


By Tony Dodgins
As Sebastian Vettel, Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso waited to go out onto the Indian Grand Prix podium, the microphones picked up their chat.

"What happened to Lewis?" asked Jenson. Alonso, with what looked like the faintest of smiles, informed him that Hamilton had touched with Massa. Again.

"Oh Jesus…" Button said.

As McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh conceded, they do seem to be magnetically attracted. It was the sixth time this year that the pair had collided. I'll confess right away that I was not in India. My other half is incapacitated, having had a small operation (definition: a medical procedure on other than oneself…) and I have temporarily become a childrens' taxi. I was therefore watching the inaugural Indian GP on the BBC.


It was on lap 24 when Hamilton, having closed in on Massa, attempted to pass the Ferrari on the inside of Turn 5. Felipe turned in and the pair made contact. Massa lost around 10 seconds and Hamilton pitted for a new nose.

Race commentators Martin Brundle and David Coulthard both feared that there would be a penalty for Hamilton. Both called it the same way and I was in agreement.

Whether you need to penalise drivers in such situations is open to debate. Do it too often and you discourage them from having a go, when what we want to see is entertainment. But, given the history between the pair, a penalty seemed more than likely.

Six laps later it was confirmed; drive through penalty for car #6. Well, okay, fair enough. Hang on a minute. Car #6? That's Massa!

What complete and utter nonsense.

It was about the only incident of note in the Indian race and, to make Massa's day worse, he was out shortly afterwards when he clobbered a kerb and broke the left front suspension.

Having broken the same apparatus on the right side of his car in qualifying, it completed the sort of symmetry that Massa won't have wanted to see. I don't know the loadings involved but I do remember that when David Coulthard's Red Bull broke its suspension on kerbs back in Malaysia in 2008, it was held to be a matter in need of investigation.

For the remainder of the afternoon the one thing you wanted to know above all else was Massa's reaction to that penalty. It wasn't forthcoming.

Post-race, Brundle and DC seemed to have modified their positions slightly. "Six of one, half a dozen of the other" was how Brundle put it. And former team owner-turned pundit Eddie Jordan inexplicably warbled on about how it was undeniably Massa's fault. EJ's justification seemed to be that when you watched it again, Massa had looked in his mirrors a number of times and seen that Hamilton was there.


Felipe Massa and Lewis Hamilton have often found themselves close on track this year © sutton-images.com

Well I never… A driver under attack looks in his mirrors to see what his opponent is doing. Surely not. What else was he going to do? Just because Massa knew Hamilton was there doesn't oblige him to open the door and let him through.

We heard from the podium finishers, as well as Schumacher, Hamilton and di Resta, and understandably Force India's Vijay Mallya. I presumed that Massa was either steaming too much to speak or visiting the stewards.

On into the BBC's red button forum I went. There we heard from the likes of Nico Hulkenberg and Adam Parr, who predictably told us precisely nothing about developments with the driver market/Kimi Raikkonen. We did learn that Mrs Parr works for Oxfam though, which was nice.

Finally, Massa! A few words from his post-race press conference making it clear that he thought Hamilton's attempt at rapprochement following the minute's silence for Dan Wheldon and Marco Simoncelli had been pretty lame. Nothing at all about the actual incident. Aaaaaargh!!!

I am indebted to my regular press colleagues for information from the track this weekend, which included speedy delivery of the sound file from Massa's post-race press conference. These things used to be pretty simple to call. A catching driver would make very gradual gains on the car in front and if he was alongside at the turn-in point, then he had every right to feel aggrieved if the other guy turned in. If he wasn't, he didn't.

These days though, in various situations you have KERS and DRS, sometimes both.

It seems that Massa had used all his KERS to defend Hamilton on the run down the straight from Turn 3 to T4, but that Lewis still had some in reserve. The in-car footage showed that Hamilton did not get a significantly better exit from Turn 4, so KERS is a good explanation for the way in which he almost got alongside the Ferrari relatively early in the run to Turn 5.

That though, is not the critical point. What matters is the situation when they reach the turn-in point. And at that point Hamilton, clearly, was not alongside.

It is a point that Massa made calmly and rationally, but strongly, later. He was on the racing line, the grippy part of the track, and could therefore brake later, which explained the Ferrari recovering the earlier ground that the McLaren had made, while Lewis was on the dirty part of the track.


Lewis Hamilton is enduring a tough summer, on and off the track © LAT

"I knew he was at my side," said Massa, "but when I braked – and this is the important place, not where he was on the straight – he was not at my side. I braked later than him.

"He was on the dirty side and when I turned he touched me from behind. He didn't touch me on my side, or wheel-to-wheel, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to close the door."

So, what had the stewards' justification for the penalty been?

"Their explanation was that when Lewis was at my side, I went to the right. I said, yes, because I went to the grippy place. And this was the only explanation they gave me, because they were not sure as well..."

I don't want to be seen to be having another go at Hamilton. He's had a tough time lately and it can't be easy to go through emotional issues in the constant spotlight. Although he's made a number of misjudgments this year, no way should you label him a dirty driver either. He's just a racer and sometimes it goes wrong.

That looked to be the case in India certainly, and while you'd have been annoyed if you were Massa, perhaps 'racing incident' was the most appropriate verdict.

If consistency of decision-making is what you are after, then previous history should have no bearing. But, if it was decided that a penalty was necessary, then there is only one way it should have gone – the other way.

If Alan Hansen had been sat in his Match of the Day chair, he'd have said, in his Scottish brogue: "the refereeee had a shorker…"

The trouble is, the stewards' driver adviser was Johnny Herbert, a hugely experienced driver and good fellow. Let's hope JH was on a loo break…

[Alfettafan]

Surprisingly this is on Autosport this lunchtime...

In defence of Felipe Massa
Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa collided again in India. It was the sixth time this season, and this time the stewards deemed the Ferrari driver at fault. But Tony Dodgins doesn't agree, in fact he thinks the referee had a shocker!


By Tony Dodgins
As Sebastian Vettel, Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso waited to go out onto the Indian Grand Prix podium, the microphones picked up their chat.

"What happened to Lewis?" asked Jenson. Alonso, with what looked like the faintest of smiles, informed him that Hamilton had touched with Massa. Again.

"Oh Jesus…" Button said.

As McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh conceded, they do seem to be magnetically attracted. It was the sixth time this year that the pair had collided. I'll confess right away that I was not in India. My other half is incapacitated, having had a small operation (definition: a medical procedure on other than oneself…) and I have temporarily become a childrens' taxi. I was therefore watching the inaugural Indian GP on the BBC.


It was on lap 24 when Hamilton, having closed in on Massa, attempted to pass the Ferrari on the inside of Turn 5. Felipe turned in and the pair made contact. Massa lost around 10 seconds and Hamilton pitted for a new nose.

Race commentators Martin Brundle and David Coulthard both feared that there would be a penalty for Hamilton. Both called it the same way and I was in agreement.

Whether you need to penalise drivers in such situations is open to debate. Do it too often and you discourage them from having a go, when what we want to see is entertainment. But, given the history between the pair, a penalty seemed more than likely.

Six laps later it was confirmed; drive through penalty for car #6. Well, okay, fair enough. Hang on a minute. Car #6? That's Massa!

What complete and utter nonsense.

It was about the only incident of note in the Indian race and, to make Massa's day worse, he was out shortly afterwards when he clobbered a kerb and broke the left front suspension.

Having broken the same apparatus on the right side of his car in qualifying, it completed the sort of symmetry that Massa won't have wanted to see. I don't know the loadings involved but I do remember that when David Coulthard's Red Bull broke its suspension on kerbs back in Malaysia in 2008, it was held to be a matter in need of investigation.

For the remainder of the afternoon the one thing you wanted to know above all else was Massa's reaction to that penalty. It wasn't forthcoming.

Post-race, Brundle and DC seemed to have modified their positions slightly. "Six of one, half a dozen of the other" was how Brundle put it. And former team owner-turned pundit Eddie Jordan inexplicably warbled on about how it was undeniably Massa's fault. EJ's justification seemed to be that when you watched it again, Massa had looked in his mirrors a number of times and seen that Hamilton was there.


Felipe Massa and Lewis Hamilton have often found themselves close on track this year © sutton-images.com

Well I never… A driver under attack looks in his mirrors to see what his opponent is doing. Surely not. What else was he going to do? Just because Massa knew Hamilton was there doesn't oblige him to open the door and let him through.

We heard from the podium finishers, as well as Schumacher, Hamilton and di Resta, and understandably Force India's Vijay Mallya. I presumed that Massa was either steaming too much to speak or visiting the stewards.

On into the BBC's red button forum I went. There we heard from the likes of Nico Hulkenberg and Adam Parr, who predictably told us precisely nothing about developments with the driver market/Kimi Raikkonen. We did learn that Mrs Parr works for Oxfam though, which was nice.

Finally, Massa! A few words from his post-race press conference making it clear that he thought Hamilton's attempt at rapprochement following the minute's silence for Dan Wheldon and Marco Simoncelli had been pretty lame. Nothing at all about the actual incident. Aaaaaargh!!!

I am indebted to my regular press colleagues for information from the track this weekend, which included speedy delivery of the sound file from Massa's post-race press conference. These things used to be pretty simple to call. A catching driver would make very gradual gains on the car in front and if he was alongside at the turn-in point, then he had every right to feel aggrieved if the other guy turned in. If he wasn't, he didn't.

These days though, in various situations you have KERS and DRS, sometimes both.

It seems that Massa had used all his KERS to defend Hamilton on the run down the straight from Turn 3 to T4, but that Lewis still had some in reserve. The in-car footage showed that Hamilton did not get a significantly better exit from Turn 4, so KERS is a good explanation for the way in which he almost got alongside the Ferrari relatively early in the run to Turn 5.

That though, is not the critical point. What matters is the situation when they reach the turn-in point. And at that point Hamilton, clearly, was not alongside.

It is a point that Massa made calmly and rationally, but strongly, later. He was on the racing line, the grippy part of the track, and could therefore brake later, which explained the Ferrari recovering the earlier ground that the McLaren had made, while Lewis was on the dirty part of the track.


Lewis Hamilton is enduring a tough summer, on and off the track © LAT

"I knew he was at my side," said Massa, "but when I braked – and this is the important place, not where he was on the straight – he was not at my side. I braked later than him.

"He was on the dirty side and when I turned he touched me from behind. He didn't touch me on my side, or wheel-to-wheel, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to close the door."

So, what had the stewards' justification for the penalty been?

"Their explanation was that when Lewis was at my side, I went to the right. I said, yes, because I went to the grippy place. And this was the only explanation they gave me, because they were not sure as well..."

I don't want to be seen to be having another go at Hamilton. He's had a tough time lately and it can't be easy to go through emotional issues in the constant spotlight. Although he's made a number of misjudgments this year, no way should you label him a dirty driver either. He's just a racer and sometimes it goes wrong.

That looked to be the case in India certainly, and while you'd have been annoyed if you were Massa, perhaps 'racing incident' was the most appropriate verdict.

If consistency of decision-making is what you are after, then previous history should have no bearing. But, if it was decided that a penalty was necessary, then there is only one way it should have gone – the other way.

If Alan Hansen had been sat in his Match of the Day chair, he'd have said, in his Scottish brogue: "the refereeee had a shorker…"

The trouble is, the stewards' driver adviser was Johnny Herbert, a hugely experienced driver and good fellow. Let's hope JH was on a loo break…

[Fyre]

Martin Brundle is now also defending Massa ans also apparently a plane full of fellow drivers, team principals and journo's:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/15524577.stm

[epiclyaddicted]

Wow, even Autosport siding with a Ferrari driver on this instance. That must be a first!

[Tifosi]

No, I think you'll find that the Fredifosi are right and that it was clearly Massa's fault.

[schumi1]

It was not Massa's fault.

[Hornet]

It was obvious Massa's penalty was uncalled for. If the stewards can't give a solid and technical explanation as to why they needed to punish Massa, then something is very strange here.

Its just another racing incident. Let them race.

[xpman]

so what the stwards are saying is if the car behind has his front wheels upalongside the rear wheels of the car in front when turning the cornor then the lead car has to slow down and give way....it was Prost fault that he crashed into Senna in Japan when both driving the Mclaren coz thats what the ruling on Massa was effectivly saying. Also note how many times LH in that race in same situation backed off before and after the accident would like to know .

Wish the Stwards would explane there thinking and how they came to that decision would be intresting.

[Corey]

I'd like to see if they'll go up to Massa and say "We weren't supposed to give you that penalty, sorry".

[Corey]

IF debates spark that their call was wrong.