Felipe Massa sucks, says Suzie

[Alonsofan2002]

and if my aunt had balls she be my uncle
I hear to much Woulda Coulda Shoulda about massa

[Tifoso]

and if my aunt had balls she be my uncle
I hear to much Woulda Coulda Shoulda about massa

I hear too much Massa bashing horsebleep by the Alonso fanboys.

And I am an Alonso fan

[sagi58]

At the end of the day, we're all looking for reasons / rationalizations / answers as to what the difference is between our two drivers and their relative performances.

We know that both Alonso and Massa are strong professional drivers, both are determined to do their best, both have had their ups and downs, professionally and personally and that both are a good "fit" at Ferrari, in their own way. However, Massa doesn't seem to have the "killer instinct" that is so evident in Alonso's eyes.

I don't believe it's something you can learn or acquire; it's innate.

[Poltergeistes]

At the end of the day, we're all looking for reasons / rationalizations / answers as to what the difference is between our two drivers and their relative performances.

We know that both Alonso and Massa are strong professional drivers, both are determined to do their best, both have had their ups and downs, professionally and personally and that both are a good "fit" at Ferrari, in their own way. However, Massa doesn't seem to have the "killer instinct" that is so evident in Alonso's eyes.

I don't believe it's something you can learn or acquire; it's innate.

I heard a cool analysis on this very subject, and this was said by fittipaldi, i wish i could find it online but can't.

and it's about this difference between fernando and felipe, and he said something very interesting, he said it's not that much more talent, that in this regard the drivers are alot closer than we might think, he thinks it's more about the momment they meet in each of their professional lives that enables them to do a certain killer.

Like he compared, if we were to get Felipe right at the end of the 08 championship, and Fernando right after 2007 and we put em both in Ferrari let's say 09, they would have been so much closer.

It's alot about attitude, Fernando might have this advantage, he tends to win championships when he is not Mr nice guy! and it's funny, cause it's true! maybe if Massa was a little more demanding during 08 maybe a few mistakes wouldn't happen here and there.

People always says that you can only trully compare 2 drivers when they are in the same car, and it's true in a way, but then again even in this case we can't 100%, Fernando is at the best place he could possibly be in F1 right now, after everything he caught when he went to Mclaren (or as i like to call F2) he was glad to come to a winning team, Felipe too was put in an impossible position and who knows, maybe he is finally starting to drive the ferrari like fernando has, so carelessly (in a nice way). don't worry about nothing outside the track, just you, the car and the track, maybe this was what Ferrari has taken care for Felipe during the past few months of overtime in Maranello?!

[JONNY F.2008]

people talk of massas head injury and say he is not the same after.
but for me the wind left his sails in germany(?) when that call came in to say fernando is faster than you.
he would have won that race, maybe, but he was still a fighter then but not since.
after THAT race he was never the same, and now is starting to get that confidence back to feel that maybe the team really does love him.

that had to be pretty hard emotionally to take, he had been there (at ferrari) a long time and probably felt the team should use the second place car to defend HIS win, not make him give it away.
and on the other side the emotional coin having your team mate pull over for you cause you are number one must be real confidence inspiring

[Poltergeistes]

people talk of massas head injury and say he is not the same after.
but for me the wind left his sails in germany(?) when that call came in to say fernando is faster than you.
he would have won that race, maybe, but he was still a fighter then but not since.
after THAT race he was never the same, and now is starting to get that confidence back to feel that maybe the team really does love him.

that had to be pretty hard emotionally to take, he had been there (at ferrari) a long time and probably felt the team should use the second place car to defend HIS win, not make him give it away.
and on the other side the emotional coin having your team mate pull over for you cause you are number one must be real confidence inspiring

I'm not gonna be a hypocritic, i would be lying if i say it didn't catch me off guard too, and i missed that race, i just watched it later, but it was so devastating to come online as soon as possible to find out how the race went, only to read that Felipe could have won the race, but ferrari sent what sounded like team orders, and the way it was done, i was really hurt and disappointed. but that's just me.

I didn't like it one bit, and i do think it was very humiliating for him, and yes it did give fernando extra points, but i think that in the long run it was bound to be a bad decision, as a team, again i do understand ferrari's reason but i don't agree with it, and that i think ruined alot of things for felipe. I mean fernando was at the other side of this when he went to mclaren, and what happened then? how did he feel? how did that turn out to mclaren?

but i'm over it now, and i think and hope felipe is too. it was one call, maybe the points were worth it at the time, but i just question the way it was done, could not have been more humiliating, felipe became the target of harsh jokes simply because of the way the order was sent alone. at least that they could have done a little better?!!

but good thing that's in the past, felipe has to worry only about his own race, then results are going to come back naturally.

[Agron]

people talk of massas head injury and say he is not the same after.
but for me the wind left his sails in germany(?) when that call came in to say fernando is faster than you.
he would have won that race, maybe, but he was still a fighter then but not since.
after THAT race he was never the same, and now is starting to get that confidence back to feel that maybe the team really does love him.

that had to be pretty hard emotionally to take, he had been there (at ferrari) a long time and probably felt the team should use the second place car to defend HIS win, not make him give it away.
and on the other side the emotional coin having your team mate pull over for you cause you are number one must be real confidence inspiring

LOL.
These guys are professionals, they get paid millions of dollars a year to do what they can for their employers, and Ferrari is the best paying at that (you go to Ferrari, you can retire as a rich man, independently of results). After a season where he was no longer, in practical terms, in the fight for the championship, the team ask him to do what must be done for the team. If that is what "destroyed" him, he doesn't deserve to drive for Ferrari, or in F1 for that matter. After 2010, the guy clearly wanted to sign again for Ferrari every time, instead of going to other team when 2008 and 2009 was still fresh in the conscious memory and could have landed a few average-good drives, so he clearly disagrees with all of you.
Massa is faster now because the car is easier to drive, just as Button didn't suffer life wrecking problems these last few races, his car just got harder to drive, and just like Kimi in 2008 wasn't screwed by his team or got demoralized or lacked the drive to qualify well. When a driver is fast on a very particular setup but his talent doesn't allow him to drive around problems, he seems lost in a bad car.

God the extremes fans go to justify their idols...

[sav_pap]

LOL.
Massa is faster now because the car is easier to drive, just as ..

Agree 100%.
Massa is a very good driver.
Maybe not up to the Alonso's class but quick enough to be at Ferrari and contribute points for the WCC.
That's besides what the team wants from him. To be competitive to the others not to his teammate.
With a mule Massa struggles. But if you give him a decent car he will show his talent.

[sagi58]

...i just question the way it was done, could not have been more humiliating, felipe became the target of harsh jokes simply because of the way the order was sent alone. at least that they could have done a little better?!!

That was my biggest bone of contention! Even if Smedley didn't like the message or the fact that he was directed to pass it on, he was the one that 'chose' that infamous phrase! As Agron suggested, it's a "job" for the drivers, it's also a "job" for everyone on their side of the garage and as such, everyone has their part to play.

I didn't hear/read anything about it; but, I hope that Smedley received a tongue-lashing for making that obvious comment and setting up not only Massa, Alonso and Ferrari, but also their fans!

To this day, I can't read about Smedley without hearing those words and frankly, it's annoying!

[Greig]

That was my biggest bone of contention! Even if Smedley didn't like the message or the fact that he was directed to pass it on, he was the one that 'chose' that infamous phrase! As Agron suggested, it's a "job" for the drivers, it's also a "job" for everyone on their side of the garage and as such, everyone has their part to play.

I didn't hear/read anything about it; but, I hope that Smedley received a tongue-lashing for making that obvious comment and setting up not only Massa, Alonso and Ferrari, but also their fans!

To this day, I can't read about Smedley without hearing those words and frankly, it's annoying!

Team orders were banned, how do you propose he told Felipe to move over in a non-obvious way?

[sagi58]

Team orders were banned, how do you propose he told Felipe to move over in a non-obvious way?

You'd have a hard time convincing me that the possibility hadn't ever been discussed behind closed doors!!
Or that they didn't have a subtle code that would have indicated what was expected by the team!

( p.s. Maybe they could have used a code such as, "Who's making the pasta after the race?"!! )

[Greig]

You'd have a hard time convincing me that the possibility hadn't ever been discussed behind closed doors!!
Or that they didn't have a subtle code that would have indicated what was expected by the team!

( p.s. Maybe they could have used a code such as, "Who's making the pasta after the race?"!! )

Obviously they never or they would have used the code no? And would Felipe moving over been any less obvious on track if they told him via code on the radio?

So if they used a code, nobody would know it was a team order, and there would be no suspicion about it, is that what you are saying?

[sagi58]

Obviously they never or they would have used the code no? And would Felipe moving over been any less obvious on track if they told him via code on the radio?So if they used a code, nobody would know it was a team order, and there would be no suspicion about it, is that what you are saying?

Greig, you're obviously a pretty smart guy, so let's not mince words, OK? It's inconceivable that after what happened in 2002 with Schumi and Barrichello, first at the Austrian GP and then at the U.S. GP, that the possibility wasn't discussed every year and with every driver by Ferrari, especially considering the team orders ban, in effect when Smedley uttered those words! We saw it in 2007 when Massa yielded to Kimi and then again in 2008 when Kimi returned the gesture.

I'm not saying that either Massa or Smedley had to like the directive; but, they should have been more conscious of the possible backlash, especially considering Ferrari's history with team orders!

I'm sure that you, or any one of us here, could have made that incident look and sound a lot more "acceptable" or less "conspicious"!

[Greig]

Team orders were not banned when they got Rubens to move over, there was no orders at Indy that was just MS playing games. In 2007 and 2008 the drivers knew what they had to do, they were not in the title battle there was no need to give any orders, well Kimi did need a bit of prodding from Luca Di to make sure he understood his support role.

There was obviously no closed doors talk prior to Germany which is why they had to radio it over to Felipe to move, otherwise he would move without any need if he knew what he had to do as he had done previously with Kimi. They decided mid-race to have some team orders, so you tell me how they can tell that to Felipe without being obvious, and how Felipe can move over without being obvious?

There was no radio order to Kimi to move for Felipe in China, but it was very obvious on track when he moved no?

[Tifosi]

Agree 100%.
Massa is a very good driver.
Maybe not up to the Alonso's class but quick enough to be at Ferrari and contribute points for the WCC.
That's besides what the team wants from him. To be competitive to the others not to his teammate.
With a mule Massa struggles. But if you give him a decent car he will show his talent.

I agree.

However, I think it also depends on the mule. In 2009, Massa got to grips with the mule a lot earlier than Kimi did (unless he was just snoozing) and Fisi and Luca B showed that it was a mule ok.

[Tifosi]

and if my aunt had balls she be my uncle
I hear to much Woulda Coulda Shoulda about massa

and we hear too much AlonsoAlonsoAlonso from you to see you as anything but an Alonso fan Why don't you just be happy with that and what Ferrari are giving him instead of destructively criticising other elements of the team that he drives for when they have nothing to do with your goal during your time here at TSN?

[Greig]

and we hear too much AlonsoAlonsoAlonso from you to see you as anything but an Alonso fan Why don't you just be happy with that and what Ferrari are giving him instead of destructively criticising other elements of the team that he drives for when they have nothing to do with your goal during your time here at TSN?

The worrying thing is for a Alonso fan as suggested they never seem to actually talk about Alonso, just Massa is bad, Fry is not enough, Massa is bad, rinse repeat. I think it's just a common troll tbh

[Alonsofan2002]

Once again read this.... (Thread: Felipe Massa - Rumours and comments about his performance)

thread is not about Alonso.

[Alonsofan2002]

and we hear too much AlonsoAlonsoAlonso from you to see you as anything but an Alonso fan Why don't you just be happy with that and what Ferrari are giving him instead of destructively criticising other elements of the team that he drives for when they have nothing to do with your goal during your time here at TSN?

My goal??? title of this thead is what.

[JONNY F.2008]

LOL.
These guys are professionals, they get paid millions of dollars a year to do what they can for their employers, and Ferrari is the best paying at that (you go to Ferrari, you can retire as a rich man, independently of results). After a season where he was no longer, in practical terms, in the fight for the championship, the team ask him to do what must be done for the team. If that is what "destroyed" him, he doesn't deserve to drive for Ferrari, or in F1 for that matter. After 2010, the guy clearly wanted to sign again for Ferrari every time, instead of going to other team when 2008 and 2009 was still fresh in the conscious memory and could have landed a few average-good drives, so he clearly disagrees with all of you.
Massa is faster now because the car is easier to drive, just as Button didn't suffer life wrecking problems these last few races, his car just got harder to drive, and just like Kimi in 2008 wasn't screwed by his team or got demoralized or lacked the drive to qualify well. When a driver is fast on a very particular setup but his talent doesn't allow him to drive around problems, he seems lost in a bad car.

God the extremes fans go to justify their idols...

yes they are pros. no doubt. and they should be able to take EVERYTHING that is thrown at them.
but are they not also men? with egos and emotions?
do you not think that it MAY have had some effect on the guy that he had to pull over and give what should have been his "comeback" win to another? i do.

YOU said "destroyed" not me.
i was trying to offer that it MAY have had SOME effect on his performance.

yes the car is better now, and that helps build confidence and rebuild it too.

and lastly, my fellow internet random person, i idolize no man nor do i need to justify anything i think or feel.

[Greig]

Once again read this.... (Thread: Felipe Massa - Rumours and comments about his performance)

thread is not about Alonso.

74 posts you have made and over 40 of them about Massa, and most of the rest about Ferrari not being good enough.

Says it all really, almost borderline obsession with Felipe.

[Tifosi]

My goal??? title of this thead is what.

...your goal to see your boy get more WDC's during his time at Ferrari. Massa's performance has nothing to do with that was my point.

[REDARMYSOJA]

You'd have a hard time convincing me that the possibility hadn't ever been discussed behind closed doors!!
Or that they didn't have a subtle code that would have indicated what was expected by the team!

( p.s. Maybe they could have used a code such as, "Who's making the pasta after the race?"!! )

Obviously they never or they would have used the code no? And would Felipe moving over been any less obvious on track if they told him via code on the radio?

So if they used a code, nobody would know it was a team order, and there would be no suspicion about it, is that what you are saying?

I have no idea if it is true, but it was reported that after some early season near misses between Felipe and Alonso (most notably the pit in incident in China) that the team sat both drivers down and told them that if one is in front of the other, the lead car must be able to establish and maintain a 3 second gap or else they will need to make way for their teammate.

In Germany Alonso had twice closed the gap, but Felipe had not ceded the position per the agreement (that's when we hear Alonso say something on the radio like "This is ridiculous). That is when Smedley made the now famous "Alonso is faster than you" transmission. That was supposed code for, "You are not maintaining the agreed to gap".

Like I say, I do not know if that is true, but it makes sense and came from some reliable sources.

[Alonsomaniac]

I hear too much Massa bashing horsebleep by the Alonso fanboys.

And I am an Alonso fan

We agree 100% !!
Felipe is Fernando's teammate and although his results are not what we like to see lately, he is still a great driver and we all need to support him. He can do it and he will do it again!

[aroutis]

Team orders were banned, how do you propose he told Felipe to move over in a non-obvious way?

He could tell him something involving Paellia for dinner for all I care. :P

[Giallo 550]

I started watching F1 and rooting for Ferrari religiously in 2010 and have a fair amount of knowledge regarding the Schumacher to Raikkonen Era. I'm a fan of practically anyone who drives for SF and understand that the team takes precedence over the drivers.

With that said, I am also a fan of both Massa and Alonso. I'm ecstatic with Fernando's performance and continue to cheer on Felipe in hopes that he can bounce back. I don't understand why some members who are only fans of Alonso feel the need to complain about Felipe while Alonso's only two points out of the Driver's Championship. If you only care about Alonso, then you only care about the Driver's Championship, correct? Then why slag on Felipe?

[Poltergeistes]

I started watching F1 and rooting for Ferrari religiously in 2010 and have a fair amount of knowledge regarding the Schumacher to Raikkonen Era. I'm a fan of practically anyone who drives for SF and understand that the team takes precedence over the drivers.

With that said, I am also a fan of both Massa and Alonso. I'm ecstatic with Fernando's performance and continue to cheer on Felipe in hopes that he can bounce back. I don't understand why some members who are only fans of Alonso feel the need to complain about Felipe while Alonso's only two points out of the Driver's Championship. If you only care about Alonso, then you only care about the Driver's Championship, correct? Then why slag on Felipe?

Yeah that's just the little problem we've had to endure, we had something funny with kimi's fans the ones that only really rooted for kimi and not really the team, and it was crazy and ridiculous at times.

So i guess we (the entire members of this great cyber space) have to take the good with the bad, when fernando came along to ferrari, alot of fernando's fans came over to this place, but the majority i beleive have been very nice, and they added so much to the forum (imho) they really became ferrari fans, in a way they followed fernando's lead very well, fernando cares about the entire ferrari team, and not only himself, and so does this majority of fernando fans that came along with him to ferrari, they care about felipe, and they care about the WCC as well.

There are a small number of nando's fans that ironically enough are only here to bash felipe and the team, and how they are not providing fernando, even though fernando himself has said many times how pleased and happy he is ever since joining ferrari.

I'm no moderator here i know but i think the fans should be more like their idol be real tifosi my friends, it will definetly make your lives even better.

I don't know about the other members that have been here longer than i have, but i would love to read more from all the cool alonso fans that joined in, and care about the team, and aren't selfish, and always cheers for both our drivers as well as the team. it's sad that the ones who posts the most, are always making fools of themselves, and even worse, they misrepresent alonso's fans.

When they start their witch hunting (like the last 2 seasons) i don't even feel like i can voice my opnion here. i hope that nobody else is feeling the same way i am about this nonstop bashing, cause i love reading what my tifosi friends here have to say, that's the reason i keep always reading everything, just so every now and then i can read the fair, friendly and smart posts.

And again, this isn't about not wanting to have people with different opnions i love that cause that's what makes it interesting. it's the manner they choose to treat the scuderia ferrari which is what brought us here in the first place, it's drivers, it's personnel, and of course, the way they end up being rude to members here that i love to know their input.

There are so many ways to disagree and have different points of views, but still do it in a friendly way, i just can't understand why they are here posting things that belongs somewhere else like the auto sport board?

This is a forum dedicated to ferrari right? and not agaisnt it.

[Poltergeistes]

I also wish that greig or someone as powerful could put back or bump it to the top, that tread we had in 2009 right after felipe's accident (i don't even know if that is still on the site or stored somewhere here maybe?!?).

so maybe these nando's fans that are making things hard here could learn something from it, they would then understand how deeply this community cares about each fan that comes here, and i hope they would become more productive, knowing that here in a way we've got each other's back, when things got very bad for the ferrari community (bad as in life threatning) so many people were so kind in giving reliable information and updates about felipe's condition, i think this became the place where we could read it and be sure that we had the right information and not all that media horror fast they were giving everywhere else on internet.

Be nice to the members of this forum, you will be amazed at how caring people are here at thescuderia.net.

[F2008]

Felipe is Fernando's teammate and although his results are not what we like to see lately, he is still a great driver and we all need to support him. He can do it and he will do it again!

reminds me of this video published a few days ago

[racingbradley]

reminds me of this video published a few days ago

It just reminds us he never gives up and we should never give up supporting him.