2012 Canadian Grand Prix - Race thread

[mark p]

Screwing up strafegy is going to happen a fe times a year in a tight high pressure championship. 20 races 7 gone perfect for 6 and screwed 1 up. As long as we learn from this and limit the number of times it happens fair enough. Mcl and RB will do the same. Ferrari is right up there with nearly 2 thirds of the season to go.

[Naeem]

I have no sour grapes about this race in relation to our season, we're two points off the lead and could have won in Canada, a track that no one at the start of the season would have given us a prayer at. I hear more updates are scheduled for valencia and we should be stronger there and especially Silverstone as high speed corners are supposed to be our forte (though i struggle to name one that we've raced on this year). I suspect, RBR 'hole' and brake duct/wheel blower thing will have a bigger effect in silverstone. We also have to remember that our car is better on colder tracks as we're really good at tyre warm up, we just get unlucky as its been blooming hot everywhere this year (except malaysia).

[scuderiafan]

I have no sour grapes about this race in relation to our season, we're two points off the lead and could have won in Canada, a track that no one at the start of the season would have given us a prayer at. I hear more updates are scheduled for valencia and we should be stronger there and especially Silverstone as high speed corners are supposed to be our forte (though i struggle to name one that we've raced on this year). I suspect, RBR 'hole' and brake duct/wheel blower thing will have a bigger effect in silverstone. We also have to remember that our car is better on colder tracks as we're really good at tyre warm up, we just get unlucky as its been blooming hot everywhere this year (except malaysia).

Barcelona?

[ForzaJay]

I had a feeling Hamilton would win today and during the first stint I watched the sector times and he was faster than Alonso and Vettle which confirmed it. I thought Alonso was looking after his tyres but towards the end of his first stint he wasn't doing purple sectors like he did in Monaco, in fact immediately after Hamilton pitted he was even faster than Alonso - these factors should have signaled our pit wall that we weren't racing Hamilton who was just too fast today.

After Hamilton's second stop he was gaining over a second in one sector alone, that should have got the pit wall thinking on their feet immediately knowing the experience with the tyres this season and pitted Alonso to cover Vettle and consolidate 2nd position.

Oh well, the team will no doubt realise where they went wrong and learn from it and know that the tryes are still very unpredictable, and hopefully if Button carries on with his downward trend and Massa his upward trend then we can climb up the constructors table.

[giodap]

anyone who is dissapointed with todays race needs to sit back and look at the whole picture. look how far we've come since the first race, i think we were nearly 1.5 secs down in qualy. and today we gambled for the win and lost, im happy ferrari took the risk of going for the race win, it show's were prepared to fight for it. roll on valencia!

[Alonsomaniac]

The race finished and I said: #$@%%^^!! It did not work out like we wanted!
But what I read here posted by a lot of whining people is just ridiculous!
I even read we should have gone for a "safe" second!
That's not Ferrari!
We go for the win!
Today we could not win the normal way because Lewis was just too fast. Fernando really had no chance of ever getting past Lewis if we had done the same strategy he did.
So Ferrari took the gamble. If the tyres had kept up for a few more laps Fernando would have been the winner and everyone here would have said they were brilliant.
The gamble went wrong this time and we paid the prize.
It's a shame, yes, but these things happen.
If you want to win you have to take risks. Sometimes it pays out and sometimes it doesn't.
Accept that and don't start whining and calling names to the team the moment it goes wrong.
Because you are the same people who had called them brilliant if it had worked out.

[Rob]

The race finished and I said: #$@%%^^!! It did not work out like we wanted!
But what I read here posted by a lot of whining people is just ridiculous!
I even read we should have gone for a "safe" second!
That's not Ferrari!
We go for the win!
Today we could not win the normal way because Lewis was just too fast. Fernando really had no chance of ever getting past Lewis if we had done the same strategy he did.
So Ferrari took the gamble. If the tyres had kept up for a few more laps Fernando would have been the winner and everyone here would have said they were brilliant.
The gamble went wrong this time and we paid the prize.
It's a shame, yes, but these things happen.
If you want to win you have to take risks. Sometimes it pays out and sometimes it doesn't.
Accept that and don't start whining and calling names to the team the moment it goes wrong.
Because you are the same people who had called them brilliant if it had worked out.

[Nova]

I think it was encouraging that Ferrari could have fought McLaren for the win at a track like Canada which suits McLaren a lot more.

I agree..to be able to fight with RB and Mac was great to see. It was interesting when Vettel was leading, Alonso 2nd, that he was able to
pull a bit of a gap on Lewis..then again, I think the Mac was the best car this race, and Lewis may have been in easy mode to conserve fuel so he
could blaze at the end..which he did. Still, we've made good steps. I dont think we are as good as RB or Mac...yet, but hopefully with some more
hard work we can win an outright fight.

[Liscia]

T too am glad Alonso and the team took a shot at the win instead of a safe 2nd (or 3rd?) which
is NOT Ferrari as Alonsomaniac said. Our team and at least one of our drivers is well and truly in
the fight now and hopefully their charge will be sustained. A good and fair race and Valencia
will be ours? FORZA FERRARI!!!

[Greig]

The race finished and I said: #$@%%^^!! It did not work out like we wanted!
But what I read here posted by a lot of whining people is just ridiculous!
I even read we should have gone for a "safe" second!
That's not Ferrari!
We go for the win!
Today we could not win the normal way because Lewis was just too fast. Fernando really had no chance of ever getting past Lewis if we had done the same strategy he did.
So Ferrari took the gamble. If the tyres had kept up for a few more laps Fernando would have been the winner and everyone here would have said they were brilliant.
The gamble went wrong this time and we paid the prize.
It's a shame, yes, but these things happen.
If you want to win you have to take risks. Sometimes it pays out and sometimes it doesn't.
Accept that and don't start whining and calling names to the team the moment it goes wrong.
Because you are the same people who had called them brilliant if it had worked out.

Ferrari have settled for 2nd places, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc etc places many many times, sorry. Sometimes you just have to accept you can't win the race and take what you can, we have heard damage limitation so many times no?

Lewis was lappping over 1 second quicker right away after he pitted, there was no gamble to win, anyone could see Lewis would catch and pass at his pace, they gambled on staying ahead of Seb that is all, if they wanted to gamble on the win then they would have pitted for super softs and gave Alonso a fighting chance.

[Suzie]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/...medium=twitter

Stefano Domenicali has defended Ferrari's decision to keep Fernando Alonso out on fast-fading tyres in the closing laps in Montreal, insisting it was a gamble they thought could pay off with race victory.

The Italian team saw Alonso slip from first to fifth place in the space of the final six laps as the soft compound tyres fitted to the Spaniard's on lap 19 of 70 went far beyond their competitive life.

Alonso lost 13 seconds to race winner Lewis Hamilton, who had charged back into the lead having made a second stop, in that period with his late slide also costing him the lead of the World Championship to his McLaren rival.

But speaking to Sky Sports F1 after the race, Ferrari's Team Principal said they opted to go all out for victory rather settling for a lesser position.

"We have tried. We have tried to win," Domeniciali told Sky Sports F1's Ted Kravitz.

"I think that at the first stop we did a good job in jumping Lewis but he was definitely faster than us.

"Then we tried to mark Vettel. At the certain moment we felt that the tyres could have last[ed] and then when you reach the cliff it was too late to pit."

Domenicali said both the pit wall and Alonso himself had felt at one point that the tyres could last all the way to lap 70, pointing out that both Romain Grosjean and Sergio Perez ultimately made a one-stop strategy work to reach the podium.

"On the hindsight it's always easy to say it was clear. But at a certain stage, speaking also with Fernando, the tyre seems to last so we take the chance," he said.

"But if you see on the podium there is two drivers with one stop so...anyway. Good points, a little bit disappointed, but lot of work to do at home."

The Italian added that, while Ferrari should be happy with the F2012's latest step forward this weekend, they obviously had work to do on tyre degradation.

"Anyway, for me, [it was a] disappointing race result. But it's good to see that the car has improved. We need to work now on the tyre degradation because without the tyre degradation at the end we could have been in a different position today," he said.

"But the championship is still there. Lewis is leading now, two points from Fernando, so let's see."

[Alonsomaniac]

Well Suzie, there's your answer....

[Greig]

Again admitting they were focused on Seb.

[Alonsomaniac]

Again admitting they were focused on Seb.

At that time, yes. But as Domenicali said, they were going for the win.

[Greig]

Lewis was lapping over 1 second quicker, they were just trying to stay ahead of Seb, anyone could see Lewis would catch and pass. All this PR talk of going for the win is nonsense.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Domenicali said both the pit wall and Alonso himself had felt at one point that the tyres could last all the way to lap 70, pointing out that both Romain Grosjean and Sergio Perez ultimately made a one-stop strategy work to reach the podium.

But didn't they both go much longer before their stop?

[Suzie]

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formu...al-casino.aspx

Eleven points for Scuderia Ferrari in the Canadian Grand Prix, thanks to a fifth place for Fernando Alonso and a tenth for Felipe Massa. Fernando was almost always in the hunt for the win and tried to make just one pit stop, on lap 19. But he dropped several places in the closing stages because of high tyre degradation, salvaging fifth place by a whisker. Felipe, who showed he had the pace to match the front runners, paid a very high price for a mistake on lap 6, when he spun at Turn 1, losing a lot of time. In the end, the Brazilian nevertheless managed to finish the race in the points. After this race, Fernando is second in the Drivers’ classification, two points down on the leader, while Felipe is fourteenth; the Scuderia finds itself fourth in the Constructors’ championship.

Stefano Domenicali: “There’s a certain feeling of disappointment this afternoon and there’s no point denying it. It’s the first weekend in which we have not got the most out of what we had, but it’s also down to the fact that the level of expectation was higher thanks to the progress we have made. Let’s not forget that yesterday we were fighting for pole and today, we were in the battle for the win right to the end: in Bahrain, a month and a half ago, not a year ago, we only got one driver into Q3 and we finished the race one minute off the winner. Today, we made two mistakes: we did not cover Vettel when the German stopped the second time and Felipe’s spin in the early stage of the race. All things considered, the first error cost us relatively little, while the second came at a higher price, because Felipe, who nevertheless had another good weekend after the one in Monaco, had the pace to stay with the lead group. Having made this preliminary analysis we need to look at the weekend in terms of the championship. Fernando is only two points off the leader and the F2012 is back to being competitive enough to fight with the best. However it was important to score points on a track that, going into the event, was definitely not one that suited us: knowing we can count on a driver like Fernando, capable of completing a year’s races all in the points is a factor that has its part to play when it comes to thinking about the title race. We must continue to push on the development to close the gap which still separates us from pole position: only when we have done this can we claim to have reached our first objective. Another theme we need to look into further is the tyre degradation, which is proving to be ever more the key to this season.”

Fernando Alonso: “Today we tried to win the race, but the gamble of only making a single stop did not pay off. When Hamilton came back into the pits for his second stop, we chose to try and play our hand: now it’s easy to say that we should have made that choice too, but it would have meant we had tried nothing and we could also have lost position to Vettel. The last laps were very long indeed: the tyres dropped off suddenly and I was too slow to defend myself from those coming up behind. My engineer was telling me to hold them off but there was no way I could do it. The real problem today was the tyre degradation, definitely not the strategy, which at the very most cost us one place, but let’s not forget that it was that very same strategy that allowed to us to get ahead of Vettel at the first stop. The car was competitive practically all race long: it wasn’t the quickest because here the McLaren, as was expected, was very quick, but definitely we have made a step forward in terms of performance. We need to work out how to improve the tyre degradation: it can be affected by very minor factors such as a few degrees more or less in temperature, although here maybe they had also come to the end of their life. It is not a tyre world championship, but every detail must be studied to aim for victory. For the first time this year, we have not just been trying to limit the damage, in that we were actually aiming for the win. It’s a positive sign and now we must confirm it at Valencia and Silverstone. We are definitely returning home with more confidence in our chances, because this was the most significant step forward we have made in terms of car development for a long time.”

Felipe Massa: “I am angry with myself for the mistake at Turn 1. I lost touch with the quickest group and then my tyres were vibrating too much, which meant I had to pit early. Then I tried to extend the next stint of the race as much as possible, even hoping not to stop again. Unfortunately, towards the end, I did have to make a second stop, because they were almost down to the canvas. Maybe bringing forward the final stop could have got me ahead of Kobayashi again, but it would not have changed much after that. I am disappointed, because we showed we were competitive with our main rivals: now we are there, fighting with them, which was not the case just a few races ago. Tenth place definitely does not reflect our potential. Now it is vital we continue to work in this direction: it was a weekend in which we were always fighting for the top places and we have improved in every area and that has to be a confidence boost for the rest of the season.”

Pat Fry: “To finish a race struggling with the tyres always hurts a bit, but for we engineers it’s best to evaluate the situation with a cool head and not with the emotive images from the television in mind. Today, Hamilton was quicker and the fact we were able to pass him was down to the strategy, by trying to do something different. Furthermore, given the behaviour of the tyres at that moment, from a certain point onwards, we decided on going for a single stop to try and at least make it to the podium. We did not manage it, but we tried right to the very end. Maybe we could have shadowed Vettel and come into the pits when he did: that was a mistake which cost us a position, but anyway Fernando would have finished outside the top three. A shame for Felipe, because he showed a good pace: a mistake early on meant he ended up in traffic and the last of the points places is definitely not the result that was within his grasp this afternoon. We leave Montreal convinced we have made a step forward in terms of outright performance, but aware that we did not pick up what was in our reach The F2012 has improved, but it is still not enough and we will have to work a lot on understanding the tyre degradation. We will head for Valencia with the aim of further improving performance and getting the most out of the potential available to us.”

[radosav]

But didn't they both go much longer before their stop?

grosjean made pit-stop at same lap as alonso

[Alonsomaniac]

Lewis was lapping over 1 second quicker, they were just trying to stay ahead of Seb, anyone could see Lewis would catch and pass. All this PR talk of going for the win is nonsense.

So you are a fan of a team whose words don't trust? Come on man, they just gambled at one point and they lost.

[Alonsomaniac]

grosjean made pit-stop at same lap as alonso

Exactly, it worked for Lotus so it was possible. Our car just ate the tyres a little bit faster.

[radosav]

Exactly, it worked for Lotus so it was possible. Our car just ate the tyres a little bit faster.

unpredictable pirelli's made huge effect today too.
people should be happy that ferrari was able to gamble for win

[Hermann]

Sometimes i miss Ross Brawn together with the old team- their race strategies were legendary. Like pitting Schumacher 4 times and still winning the race *sigh*

[xpman]

I don't know what everybody was watching but I did not see a race all I saw was kers and drs truly and clearly detract from any race for everybody not just Ferrari IMO

[Chicane]

The race finished and I said: #$@%%^^!! It did not work out like we wanted!
But what I read here posted by a lot of whining people is just ridiculous!
I even read we should have gone for a "safe" second!
That's not Ferrari!
We go for the win!
Today we could not win the normal way because Lewis was just too fast. Fernando really had no chance of ever getting past Lewis if we had done the same strategy he did.
So Ferrari took the gamble. If the tyres had kept up for a few more laps Fernando would have been the winner and everyone here would have said they were brilliant.
The gamble went wrong this time and we paid the prize.
It's a shame, yes, but these things happen.
If you want to win you have to take risks. Sometimes it pays out and sometimes it doesn't.
Accept that and don't start whining and calling names to the team the moment it goes wrong.
Because you are the same people who had called them brilliant if it had worked out.

IMO, this season, points are the most important, we should have settled for 2nd cause were fighting for the championship and its hard to look back if we lost by 8 points in the wdc comes november.
it is the race were we have two choice, gamble or play safe and bring home as many points and i think we should have go for the points it is the most common sense to do. I think in terms of development were not there yet to challenge for the win, we still don't have the speed yet as we saw in this race but were going there and im sure in valencia with another update will be seriously challenging for pole and the win.

We should have go for VALOR RATHER THAN GLORY instead of gaining nothing at all..

[Kingdom Hearts]

The strategy was ok, imagine that we pit with Hamilton and Vettel win the race with one less pit stop, the same cry babies will be here blaming Ferrari and their wrong strategy.

[sav_pap]

Its ridiculous (read the word in previous post) how some people watch a race and they dont understand a thing about it. They just wait to hear the teams comments to evaluate the situation and the results." Ferrari only go for wins....." etc. Etc. We settled with 2nd and not went for 1st. And all these whining people are those who were seeing the obvious.

[sav_pap]

IMO, this season, points are the most important, we should have settled for 2nd cause were fighting for the championship and its hard to look back if we lost by 8 points in the wdc comes november.
it is the race were we have two choice, gamble or play safe and bring home as many points and i think we should have go for the points it is the most common sense to do. I think in terms of development were not there yet to challenge for the win, we still don't have the speed yet as we saw in this race but were going there and im sure in valencia with another update will be seriously challenging for pole and the win.

We should have go for VALOR RATHER THAN GLORY instead of gaining nothing at all..

100% agree. You gamble when you are the back and you have no other choice. When you lead the champ you play it safe.what counts is the champion at november.

[anotherfinemess]

I saw Alonso and Massa being DRS'd by a lot of cars, and didnt see our guys DRS anyone. Why?

[F2002]

Again admitting they were focused on Seb.

Yep.

Alonso's philosophy seems to be to mark the guy who poses the biggest threat in the championship at that point in time.

[Greig]

So you are a fan of a team whose words don't trust? Come on man, they just gambled at one point and they lost.

Not that I don't trust them, just I don't believe they made any gamble on the race win, they were focused on beating Seb and probably thought 2nd was safe, to tell us they went for the win with that strategy does not make sense to me as Lewis was easily going to catch and pass and everyone could see that even on this race thread as it was happening.