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Thread: Alonso proud Ferrari gambled on the win

  1. #1
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    Alonso proud Ferrari gambled on the win

    http://en.espnf1.com/canada/motorspo...tml?CMP=chrome

    Fernando Alonso is proud Ferrari opted to go for the win at the Canadian Grand Prix with a risky strategy rather than settle for second by matching race-winner Lewis Hamilton's for pit stops.

    Alonso took the lead when Hamilton pitted for the second time on lap 50, but in doing so he was asking too much of his 30-lap old tyres. In the end the degradation saw him fall to fifth place, but he said he has no regrets about his strategy.

    "I'm proud of the team and happy we went for the victory," Alonso said. "We tossed the coin in the air and we waited to see the result and it didn't work. At least we tried and we were not happy with second. In the end it was too many laps and in the end we ran out of tyres quite suddenly and it was too late to pit."

    He said he would not have stood a chance of beating Hamilton if he pitted at the same time as the McLaren and admitted Ferrari was keeping one eye on Sebastian Vettel, who beat Alonso after bailing out of a one-stop strategy eight laps from the end.

    "Lewis was quicker than us all the way through so pitting at the same time of Lewis we would have come second, which now seems like a much better result than fifth, but after the race that's easy to say. At that point it was 50/50 and we either cover Vettel or we cover Hamilton and we did Vettel and it didn't work."
    True, it was a gamble to score 8 more point but in the we lost 8 points. I guess this will be a wake up call for the pit wall. Not to worry, so far this season we've moved forward and luck has been on our side (Fernando's at least) and I'm sure with the positives from this weekend, there is plenty more to come

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    Makes no sense, but Alonso knows to say the right things
    Forza Ferrari

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    What Alonso says makes perfect sense!
    Ferrari feels strong again and wants to win! Then you don't just settle for a safe second but you take the gamble. If it works out you are the greatest on earth and if it doesn't everyone tells you you are a moron.
    But that's the risk you take if you want to win.
    You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse

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    Ferrari and Alonso have settled for less than the win plenty of times, Ferrari and Alonso have said all season about scoring podiums will make them title challengers. He says they did not settle for 2nd, but they were more focused on what Seb was doing, how is that going for the win? as I said makes no sense.
    Forza Ferrari

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    I thought Alonso was known for being a more 'thinking' driver, going for the solid points rather than gambling for a win
    Forza Jules

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
    I thought Alonso was known for being a more 'thinking' driver, going for the solid points rather than gambling for a win
    Correct, but today Ferrari -and apparently Fernando too - thought they had a realistic chance of beating Lewis this way, so they tried.
    You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse

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    Ah. Fair enough
    Forza Jules

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    I have to agree with Greig, ok..so Alonso says they went for it..Ok, I can be be proud of that..on the other hand, as
    mentioned in the race thread, Ferrari had the tire data... My call? I wouldve def went for a 2nd stop. Given the performance of the tires this year,
    and the fact that the temps were hotter than previous 2 days, I wouldve had to. I do think that no matter what tires or strategy we had, we simply
    didnt have the pace to beat Mac.
    You win, you hero..aey?

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    Lewis was lapping over 1 second quicker after he stopped, it was clear to me he was going to catch and pass, we were focused on beating Seb not the win IMO.
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Lewis was lapping over 1 second quicker after he stopped, it was clear to me he was going to catch and pass, we were focused on beating Seb not the win IMO.
    Fernando seems to disagree with you.....and BTW, Perez also pitted only once, so the chance was there.
    You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonsomaniac View Post
    Fernando seems to disagree with you.....and BTW, Perez also pitted only once, so the chance was there.
    I don't really care as Stefano said they were marking Seb, even the article above Alonso admits they were looking at Seb. But if you are happy to throw away 8 points in this title battle then I am cool with that
    Forza Ferrari

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    Well Fernando did say he was looking at the RedBull guys before the race weekend.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    grosjean and perez were on 1 stop strategy and ended on podium. ferrari felt that they have chance to win and they tried it. if not now , when? they were leading WDC in seventh race of championship, with 13 races to go now is the moment to take the risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Lewis was lapping over 1 second quicker after he stopped, it was clear to me he was going to catch and pass, we were focused on beating Seb not the win IMO.
    yap, I think they though Vettel will stay out till the end of the race as well and Fernando will finish second at the worst, but Vettel didn't and it was too late for us to respond.
    Meanwhile, it either says something or just nothing that Alonso, Schumacher and Raikkonen have reputedly spared a F1 podium on five occasions and Fernando has stood on the top step on every occasion. He's F1's first among equals. (PG)

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    Quote Originally Posted by radosav View Post
    grosjean and perez were on 1 stop strategy and ended on podium. ferrari felt that they have chance to win and they tried it. if not now , when? they were leading WDC in seventh race of championship, with 13 races to go now is the moment to take the risk.
    Or pit, take the 18 points and leave a track we said was not ideal for us, still in the title lead, there was no gamble to win Lewis was way faster after he stopped and was easily going to catch us and pass us, we gambled on staying ahead of Seb in 2nd place.
    Forza Ferrari

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    MS would never agree with this, first priority should be championship points, not gambling for race wins. Gambling is ok when you have nothing to lose, in the last few races or so, now is not the time to do this.

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    Ferrari

    Fernando Alonso - 5th
    "Today we tried to win the race, but the gamble of only making a single stop did not pay off. When Hamilton came back into the pits for his second stop, we chose to try and play our hand: now it's easy to say that we should have made that choice too, but it would have meant we had tried nothing and we could also have lost position to Vettel. The last laps were very long indeed: the tyres dropped off suddenly and I was too slow to defend myself from those coming up behind. My engineer was telling me to hold them off but there was no way I could do it. The real problem today was the tyre degradation, definitely not the strategy, which at the very most cost us one place, but let's not forget that it was that very same strategy that allowed to us to get ahead of Vettel at the first stop. The car was competitive practically all race long: it wasn't the quickest because here the McLaren, as was expected, was very quick, but definitely we have made a step forward in terms of performance. We need to work out how to improve the tyre degradation: it can be affected by very minor factors such as a few degrees more or less in temperature, although here maybe they had also come to the end of their life. It is not a tyre world championship, but every detail must be studied to aim for victory. For the first time this year, we have not just been trying to limit the damage, in that we were actually aiming for the win. It's a positive sign and now we must confirm it at Valencia and Silverstone. We are definitely returning home with more confidence in our chances, because this was the most significant step forward we have made in terms of car development for a long time."

    Felipe Massa - 10th
    "I am angry with myself for the mistake at Turn 1. I lost touch with the quickest group and then my tyres were vibrating too much, which meant I had to pit early. Then I tried to extend the next stint of the race as much as possible, even hoping not to stop again. Unfortunately, towards the end, I did have to make a second stop, because they were almost down to the canvas. Maybe bringing forward the final stop could have got me ahead of Kobayashi again, but it would not have changed much after that. I am disappointed, because we showed we were competitive with our main rivals: now we are there, fighting with them, which was not the case just a few races ago. Tenth place definitely does not reflect our potential. Now it is vital we continue to work in this direction: it was a weekend in which we were always fighting for the top places and we have improved in every area and that has to be a confidence boost for the rest of the season."

    Stefano Domenicali, team principal
    "There's a certain feeling of disappointment this afternoon and there's no point denying it. It's the first weekend in which we have not got the most out of what we had, but it's also down to the fact that the level of expectation was higher thanks to the progress we have made. Let's not forget that yesterday we were fighting for pole and today, we were in the battle for the win right to the end: in Bahrain, a month and a half ago, not a year ago, we only got one driver into Q3 and we finished the race one minute off the winner. Today, we made two mistakes: we did not cover Vettel when the German stopped the second time and Felipe's spin in the early stage of the race. All things considered, the first error cost us relatively little, while the second came at a higher price, because Felipe, who nevertheless had another good weekend after the one in Monaco, had the pace to stay with the lead group. Having made this preliminary analysis we need to look at the weekend in terms of the championship. Fernando is only two points off the leader and the F2012 is back to being competitive enough to fight with the best. However it was important to score points on a track that, going into the event, was definitely not one that suited us: knowing we can count on a driver like Fernando, capable of completing a year's races all in the points is a factor that has its part to play when it comes to thinking about the title race. We must continue to push on the development to close the gap which still separates us from pole position: only when we have done this can we claim to have reached our first objective. Another theme we need to look into further is the tyre degradation, which is proving to be ever more the key to this season."

    Pat Fry, technical director
    "To finish a race struggling with the tyres always hurts a bit, but for we engineers it's best to evaluate the situation with a cool head and not with the emotive images from the television in mind. Today, Hamilton was quicker and the fact we were able to pass him was down to the strategy, by trying to do something different. Furthermore, given the behaviour of the tyres at that moment, from a certain point onwards, we decided on going for a single stop to try and at least make it to the podium. We did not manage it, but we tried right to the very end. Maybe we could have shadowed Vettel and come into the pits when he did: that was a mistake which cost us a position, but anyway Fernando would have finished outside the top three. A shame for Felipe, because he showed a good pace: a mistake early on meant he ended up in traffic and the last of the points places is definitely not the result that was within his grasp this afternoon. We leave Montreal convinced we have made a step forward in terms of outright performance, but aware that we did not pick up what was in our reach The F2012 has improved, but it is still not enough and we will have to work a lot on understanding the tyre degradation. We will head for Valencia with the aim of further improving performance and getting the most out of the potential available to us."
    hehe...yep you can trust Alonso to say the right things even after Abu Dhabi 2012. Maybe Alonso is covering the Pit Wall Crew by saying we gambled but we know that they know that Ferrari didn't respond in time. Nevertheless, nobody can hide their disappointments especially when the car has actually improved. On top of that I think Lotus is ahead of us in WCC now.

    Year 2000: R.I.P Formula 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Or pit, take the 18 points and leave a track we said was not ideal for us, still in the title lead, there was no gamble to win Lewis was way faster after he stopped and was easily going to catch us and pass us, we gambled on staying ahead of Seb in 2nd place.

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    IMO, the problem here wasn't about a wrong strategy. Maybe Ferrari planned on this after looking at Friday and Saturday's data or whatever, it doesn't matter. Every strategy have a risk. Ferrari was right to take a risk.

    However, the problem here is Ferrari's inability to react to the real situation that's unfolding on track during race. As I said, Plan A don't always work. And in F1, its too unpredictable to come up with Plan B beforehand. Plan B is something that is created during the race itself.

    I think this is Ferrari's weakness, or at least in this particular race. Even when it was obvious Plan A was going straight to hell, Ferrari was unable to respond. The lap times were there to tell us that there was no way Alonso can stay ahead of Lewis, and I'm sure the same thing with RGorj and Perez. The teams have all the hard data to know those drivers are going to catch up as well.

    Unfortunately, we were not able to adept to this final stage. We were not able to come up with any response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonsomaniac View Post
    Fernando seems to disagree with you.....and BTW, Perez also pitted only once, so the chance was there.
    Alonso and Massa are not the kind of driver who will say things that make the team look bad (Well, not when they are driving in Ferrari anyway ). I'm happy with that, but obviously their comments may not always be the accurate picture of what was going on when something went wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by radosav View Post
    grosjean and perez were on 1 stop strategy and ended on podium. ferrari felt that they have chance to win and they tried it. if not now , when? they were leading WDC in seventh race of championship, with 13 races to go now is the moment to take the risk.
    Every car use the tires differently. It doesn't matter what Perez or Grosj was doing, they were not driving a F2012.

    Teams don't look at mere position to make strategic calls. They look at hard numbers, which is the lap times. Massa's lap time was a clear indication that Alonso lap time is going to take a huge dive too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radosav View Post
    grosjean and perez were on 1 stop strategy and ended on podium...
    So... I'll ask my dumb question of the day now: Why didn't it work for us? Was it the tires? The timing of our first stop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sagi58 View Post
    So... I'll ask my dumb question of the day now: Why didn't it work for us? Was it the tires? The timing of our first stop?
    Different cars will wear the tires differently. Lotus' car is probably one of the most gentle on the tires right now. They don't have the raw performance, but they don't work the tires as hard as others and yesterday they benefited from that. They were not fast, but their tires last long.

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    Thank you, Hornet! I just noticed that you answered my question before I submitted my post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Different cars will wear the tires differently. Lotus' car is probably one of the most gentle on the tires right now. They don't have the raw performance, but they don't work the tires as hard as others and yesterday they benefited from that. They were not fast, but their tires last long.
    Lotus is not the most gentle right now. They were nurturing they tires and preparing them for the last stage. If they would have driven with the same speed of the first cars they would have fallen far behind Alonso.

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    For sure he will say something like he said. He will not say that team ed him once again. This is just PR bull. Excuses for others stupidity...

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    Ferrari was looking at redbull and redbull was looking at ferrari. Imo whoever was pitting first surely he would be followed by the other.

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    And also fernandos comments covered the pitwall. Im sure backstage there were different discussions. I dont mean anything bad or fighting but for sure alonso didnt say : "guys im very proud of what you have done today"

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    Could have been a better result with hindsight; but we are only 2 points behind Hamilton; so it was alright, not disastrous.

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    What an absolute load of crap. 2nd better than 5th and the points that go with it. Get better with your strategy.

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    seems to me that when Ferrari is faced with a double threat, they panic and hesitate. It happened at Abu Dhabi 2010, they didn't know whether to cover Webber or Vettel, same this time, couldn't decide what to do vs Ramilton and Vettel. Throwing away P2 doesn't make sense at all, I remember how Alonso would call P2 a 'perfect result' back in 2006, because he knew if the car isn't the quickest at a given circuit then it's all about getting maximum points.

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    OK 2 points behind the leader isn't a reason for panic. I agree.
    But I have a question: Weren't we the same people who were celebrating after monaco because of the 3 points lead of fernando?
    So it wasn't a big deal our champ leading?
    We take 3 points lead and we cheer we are 2 points back and it's not a big deal.
    IMO both cases isn't a big deal. 2 up or 2 down it's about the same.
    What counts is not wasting points that you have in your pocket. And if you do this better be once.
    If you continue like this then 8 wasted points here, 3 wasted points there in the end (November) you are about to be 2nd or 3rd in the WDC.
    We have 13 oportunities yet to prove that this yesterday was only once.
    Hope our strategy guys recover soon!!!

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