Todt wants Michelin back in F1

[Hornet]

I really don't know what you want because prior to refueling tyre management was a big deal. Implying that it is some random event is silly at best... Managing the machinery and the tyres has always been tantamount to success and I'm glad it has been reintroduced. These drivers had it way to easy and to a great extent still do. Traction control, active suspensions, pit to car radio/vice versa and what not else where drivers are left with little to do except drive with the aide of tons of downforce which has negated the skill required to go around a track really fast a thing of the past.

Next, you're going to wish refuelling be brought back so you can see drivers go balls to the wall for x amount of laps prior to stopping again.

What you're asking for is akin to football player running flat out all the time with little or no thought regarding his stamina levels.

Tire management was a big deal, but the tires are more predictable and so you can actually build strategy around them when you know its degradation pattern. You can actually plan your strategy.

Who said tire management was never there?
And who's talking about traction control? I'm talking about Pirelli's fragile tires that suddenly loses its performance rather than gradually degrades. This issue has been raised many times by the teams and drivers.

The problem now is that tire management has become tip toeing in the dark because you don't know when it will fall off a cliff and when it does, you are royally screwed.

Please note the difference between a more constant degradation and one that suddenly falls off the cliff. Otherwise we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[aroutis]

I really don't know what you want because prior to refueling tyre management was a big deal. Implying that it is some random event is silly at best...

Prior to refueling indeed you needed to handle your tyres. However, the thing is that the way they degraded was much more predictable and had to do with the way you were driving and the way your car was set up, and NOT by the way the tyres were made (ie. to lose traction in the last 5-10 laps).

Right now, the way the tyres are made, they create unknown factors, that was NOT the case back then.

Also, I have to add, even with refueling, the tyre management was always there. So was fuel management for example. Active suspensions, on the other hand, were banned for all I can remember.

And since you 're asking, I would not mind refueling, I dont' see exactly the point in no refueling, since cars do come in the pits, since there are cars passing cars thru the pits. So why the negativity exactly? And by starting with an unknown amount of fuel spices up the race (one can start with full fuel tank, other with half and so forth, different strategies , different sets of tyres.. more variables).

[Ferrari2183]

You guys just don't get it... Pirelli was mandated by the teams and FIA to produce these more marginal tyres. And of course teams plan their strategies. How many times have you heard the teams talk of the amount of stops expected and it turns out to be correct. The only time I've seen the tyres hit a cliff is when the teams have deviated from the planned strategy ala Kimi (China) and Alonso (Canada).

And I'm still waiting for you guys to give me an example of a tyre that degraded more but offered the same consistency that you want.

I tell you why... Because it has never happened and will never happen.

[Hornet]

You guys just don't get it... Pirelli was mandated by the teams and FIA to produce these more marginal tyres. And of course teams plan their strategies. How many times have you heard the teams talk of the amount of stops expected and it turns out to be correct. The only time I've seen the tyres hit a cliff is when the teams have deviated from the planned strategy ala Kimi (China) and Alonso (Canada).

And I'm still waiting for you guys to give me an example of a tyre that degraded more but offered the same consistency that you want.

I tell you why... Because it has never happened and will never happen.

Regardless of whether it was intentional or otherwise, a fragile tire doesn't offer a competitive platform.

Consistency is how smooth it degrades, not how fast. You can simply make softer tires that offer more performance, but degrades faster.

I don't know what the FIA means by marginal. But if they want a shorter lifespan, then perhaps Pirelli should make the tire's lifespan shorter but with a smoother degradation curve.

A hypothetical example is this. Say you want a tire to only last 10 laps, and by the end of its lifespan, it should be 10 second slower. A perfectly consistent degradation curve would meant that after each lap is done, the tire is slower by 1 seconds. So when you plot the lap time versus time, you get a linear degradation.

I understand that in real life you cannot achieve such perfect degradation curve. But during the height of of tire development, they certainly achieved a much better consistency than what we're seeing with Pirelli. When you have a tire that runs ok for a certain amount of time, and suddenly it drops off, it hints that you may not know how to control the degradation, and so you have to artificially induce a huge drop off after certain amount of the rubber is used (by intentionally rig the tire to lose all performance after a certain point)

This is my problem with Pirelli.

If the FIA indeed wanted such intentional drop off, then to me that's manipulating the sport for entertainment purposes and I don't like that.

[Ferrari2183]

You're never going to get a linear degradation curve. It might happen for the first few laps of the tyre but after that we're in the territory of diminishing returns. I.e. That as the rubber gets less the degradation gets worse (eg lap 11 you lose 2 tenths but lap 12 you lose 3 tenths. You didn't see this in the height of the tyre war because the degradation was much much less and teams never really got to the bare bones of the rubber.

And nothing is intentionally introduced to cause a huge drop off but rather there is not enough rubber left to overcome the forces exerted on the tyres due to the mandated degradation.

[Alonsofan2002]

tires will last all of the race if fia/pir want it that way.

[SS454]

@ SS454,

Why would you say such and absurd statement that the Michelin tires are far better than any one else's????? you just talking nonsense. The current Pirelli Tires are a specific, "Spec" tire to be Engineered to have specific qualities. There is nothing wrong with the Pirelli tires! Look, No One has Ever had a failure do to these Pirelli tires and there is not other tire Manufacturer in formula One to even compare to regarding who is the best. I get upset with people that say things with no valid reason to support what they say. Michelin has been many years out of the sport and they to will have to re-learn the sport just as Pirelli did. People have to remember that Pirelli are making amazingly Engineered tires to a very specific task. We are seeing no variation in tires being used from one team to the other and every one has a very even playing field to work from. I liken it to NASCAR or IRL Racing with a Spec tire which everyone uses. I Formula One the only issue is the FIA and the Formula One Ruling Body have mandated that all teams must use Two (2) Different tire compounds in the race. This is the real bone of contention to be picked!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Michelin tends to dominate the tire wars in any series they compete in. They had a nice head to head against Pirelli in the WRC and Michelin were better. The Corvette C5R's in 2004 found something like 2 seconds a lap when they switched to Michelins. Michelin took all of 1 year to become a great tire in F1, and in fact by 2002 were easily the best tire in qualifying. 2003 they proved to be the best tire, and who wants to remember the massacre in 2005? What Pirelli has now is a tire made for giving a show, its not the best tire for grip, endurance, or any combination. Michelin know have to make a fast tire, and a durable tire. They have proven this time and time again. I think that is reason enough to believe Michelin would become the tire of choice if they returned to a tire war in F1.

[brembo man]

Michelin would have to do what there told to do by the Fia experts, and that is make tires similar to what there demanding from pirelli now. A fast tire best for grip, endurance or as you say any combo. is not what there asking for with Pirelli , or thats what they would be producing. Are boy is doing fine on his Pirellis and so is Nico with his ride on Pirellis, Todt's boy the chin just ain't got it. It's not the tires.

[Alonsofan2002]

I thought spec tire meant everybody has to run the same tires,not how there made.