Ferrari aims to make wind tunnel 'state of the art'

[theforce]

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...tml?CMP=chrome

Ferrari is aiming to upgrade its wind tunnel to make it "state of the art" after a series of correlation issues have hampered progress this season.

Ferrari has been using Toyota's wind tunnel to help develop the car after data from its own facility did not match the car's performance on the track. The team has decided to close the wind tunnel to improve it and when it reopens chief designer Nikolas Tombazis is confident it will be one of the best in Formula One.

"We have taken the decision to make some significant modifications to our tunnel to upgrade it and bring it to the point where it is state of the art," he said. "Compared to those of some our opponents, ours is older and therefore in some areas it is not operating at the highest level. The work will involve temporarily closing our wind tunnel here in Maranello and during this period of several months, we will use an external wind tunnel, so that our development programme can continue without interruption, until ours is suitably updated.

"In an ideal world, if one has a wind tunnel that gives you all the results you need, then having just one tunnel is much simpler than using two. However, when, as is the case with us, we have had some doubts about the data from our facility, it will be useful to see what we find out by using another tunnel, to compare the results."

Tombazis said there are a number of reasons why the wind tunnel might not be working properly.

"It can come from a problem of scale, because the model used in the tunnel is much smaller than the real car and it can come from the fact that the wind in a tunnel is different to running the car in the open air and the way the air flows over the car can also be a factor. The way aerodynamics works on a modern F1 car is hyper-complicated, based on the interaction of various components and very small details, therefore it is easy to make a mistake. Correlation cannot be seen in black and white terms and you cannot expect a wind tunnel to deliver perfect results in all areas. We have had problems in some areas, but that does not mean that all our work in the wind tunnel has been worthless."

Finally

[stefa]

After one title lost in 2010, dog of a car in 2011, and huge time loss in 2012...
Finally!

[Ken]

"It can come from a problem of scale, because the model used in the tunnel is much smaller than the real car and it can come from the fact that the wind in a tunnel is different to running the car in the open air and the way the air flows over the car can also be a factor. The way aerodynamics works on a modern F1 car is hyper-complicated, based on the interaction of various components and very small details, therefore it is easy to make a mistake. Correlation cannot be seen in black and white terms and you cannot expect a wind tunnel to deliver perfect results in all areas. We have had problems in some areas, but that does not mean that all our work in the wind tunnel has been worthless."

How about one that the fullsize cars can be tested in

[Greig]

Don't think they are allowed to test full size cars in the wind tunnel, or it's very heavily limited.

[Dino]

Don't think they are allowed to test full size cars in the wind tunnel, or it's very heavily limited.

Full scale only 4 hours in a 24 hour period,but you have to give up the 4 day straight line testing for it!
Otherwise scale of up to 60% must be used.

[Ken]

Full scale only 4 hours in a 24 hour period,but you have to give up the 4 day straight line testing for it!
Otherwise scale of up to 60% must be used.

Pity

[Hornet]

Full scale only 4 hours in a 24 hour period,but you have to give up the 4 day straight line testing for it!
Otherwise scale of up to 60% must be used.

These rules are just dumb

[stefa]

And I was asking myself why not use 1:1 scale model... So there is rule behind it! Stupid, but I can understand it from the point of cost savings. On the other hand cost savings in most technically advanced sports is ridiculous...

[anialonso]

Hope we can somehow manage to win this years title..
and fix the wind tunnel in the season break to have the best wind tunnel for next season..

[Tifoso84]

I hope that this time Ferrari get it fixed once and for all. This wind tunnel issue has been cramping our style long enough.
The guys at Maranello better get this sorted, or we'll be playing catch up to the other teams next season as well. And that would be just awful.

[FerrariF60]

I hope that this time Ferrari get it fixed once and for all. This wind tunnel issue has been cramping our style long enough.
The guys at Maranello better get this sorted, or we'll be playing catch up to the other teams next season as well. And that would be just awful.

no we won't...the current F2013 will be designed and developed in the Toyota's wind tunnel as well as development throughout next year; they said they will NOT use the WT in maranello anymore until they have it FIXED...

so that is a good singn; now let's hope the updates that are now being built using the toyota's WT work and give us a boost to take the fight to red fools

[Tifoso84]

no we won't...the current F2013 will be designed and developed in the Toyota's wind tunnel as well as development throughout next year; they said they will NOT use the WT in maranello anymore until they have it FIXED...

Oh yea, that's right, I forgot that they said that.
Thanks for reminding me buddy! Now I feel a lot more confident about next year.

I just hope that the Toyota's wind tunnel really is as "state-of-the-art" as it's been claimed to be.

[ForzaJay]

I don't know how big the racing budget is, but would it not be better to just build a brand new wind tunnel. A few seasons back there was a problem with the wind tunnel and correlation and now the problem has re-occurred. Sometimes, just like a house, it's better to knock it down and start from a clean and better foundation and install the best technology rather than trying to right the wrongs.

[impactX]

I thought we fixed this last year? Or are we having a deja vu?

[Tifoso84]

I thought we fixed this last year? Or are we having a deja vu?

Well apparently we didn't fix it, and the problem still persists. That's why Ferrari is going to shut-down the wind tunnel completely in the winter, to get it properly fixed for next season.

[Kingdom Hearts]

Cool, they should have done it way earlier.

[Rob]

These rules are just dumb

They are they to help reduce costs, for the smaller teams. Its upto teams like us to get up to speed with the latest software.

[Rob]

Cool, they should have done it way earlier.

Wind tunnel has been fine, until 2010-2011, but RBR has pushed the limits of CFD and PIV that it got out dated. Its like buying an I- Pad thinking it best then 6 months later they bring out mini I-Pad.

[theforce]

Ferrari, Williams Used Toyota Wind Tunnel

BY OVIDIU PANZARIU
31ST JANUARY 2011

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fe...nel-30465.html

Toyota withdrew from Formula 1 more than a year ago, but its immense investments into their Cologne motorsport centre seem to now pay off. Even though there is little work going on at their aforementioned facility, Toyota Motorsport GmbH has allegedly been used by two high-profiled F1 teams for the development of their 2011 single-seaters.

The teams in question are Williams F1 and Ferrari and, as rumor goes, six more squads are to follow shortly. However, their names have not yet reached the headlines.

As far as Williams is concerned, the British squad apparently used one of Toyota's two wind tunnels to develop some parts of their soon to be launched FW32. The info was revealed by German-language publication Speed Week and sounds a bit strange to be honest, especially since Frank William's team has a couple of wind tunnels of its own back at their Grove headquarters.

In addition, Ferrari seems to have also made use of Toyota's wind tunnel during the winter. According to the same publication, the Scuderia made this move due to the cost-cutting limitations placed on staff and wind tunnel time. However, a team is allowed to pay an outside party for extra wind tunnel work, therefore escaping the FIA restrictions.

Apart from the two wind tunnels, the Cologne based Toyota Motorsport GmbH has several other facilities available for external parties to hire. And Speed Week reveals that a bunch of teams will not hesitate to contact the Japanese company for use of their facilities.

Not new news but worth nothing that they don't mention the Wind tunnel to track correlation problem.

Any team known to outsource their wind tunnel work?

[albert]

cool, only 4 years too late.

[ferrari1.8t]

cool, only 4 years too late.

Ferrari probably assumed/hoped that F1 would become less dependant on Aero and place more emphasis on engine development like the past. Thus, they held off spending money on the out-dated wind tunnel. They must be coming to terms with the fact that the new F1 is heavily dependant on Aero, and with testing bans in place, a strong wind tunnel is now a must.

[Cemz85]

i heard a while ago sauber has the best wind tunnel, when thiers got built back in 05 or something.. is this true?

[Tifoso84]

Ferrari probably assumed/hoped that F1 would become less dependant on Aero and place more emphasis on engine development like the past. Thus, they held off spending money on the out-dated wind tunnel. They must be coming to terms with the fact that the new F1 is heavily dependant on Aero, and with testing bans in place, a strong wind tunnel is now a must.

We just need to update the wind tunnel to suit the current standards. The problem seems to be that the wind tunnel has become stagnated and Ferrari needs to just update it, in order to keep up with the others. Ferrari can definitely do it, it just takes some more time.

[Dino]

i heard a while ago sauber has the best wind tunnel, when thiers got built back in 05 or something.. is this true?

http://youtu.be/Ot08f0bXf4c
About Ferrari and Sauber Wind Tunnel. [At 12.00 minutes]

[steelstallions]

Just a thought, if you can only use scale model in the wind tunnel, could you make a car 110% size i.e. 10% bigger? You will get a better reading from that than a smaller size.
If that's not an option, after years of wind tunnel problems, maybe its time to demolish what they have and build completely new, with the capacity for any size car so the road cars can benefit from its use also.

[Tifoso84]

Just a thought, if you can only use scale model in the wind tunnel, could you make a car 110% size i.e. 10% bigger? You will get a better reading from that than a smaller size.
If that's not an option, after years of wind tunnel problems, maybe its time to demolish what they have and build completely new, with the capacity for any size car so the road cars can benefit from its use also.

Yea, building a completely new wind tunnel would be a good idea, but it would be very expensive and it would also mean that we'd have to keep using Toyota's wind tunnel for quite some time. But yea I agree, that having a brand new, state of the art wind tunnel in our own back yard in Maranello would be absolutely perfect.