Ferrari F138 - Development and News

[mirafiori]

Hmm, I THINK the interesting feature there is the rim which have that gap running along the circumference. Perhaps it's for some kind of airflow?
I could be wrong and that gap could is normal though.

Maybe airflow to cool tyres in some way, we know Mercedes suffer with tyres over heating, this could be a very clever design by the Mercedes team. Looking at these photos I would say it would be easy for Ferrari to design and manufacture something similar quickly.

[Kyss4k]

Viewed in autosport:

"Lots of things come to my mind, you can ask me if you want, I just mention a few stuffs. I was at most part of the track during the Friday practices expect the first sector which is closed for the fans.
The Ferraris are clearly out of balance, those cars are way more difficult to drive than the Lotus, Red Bull or Mercedes. The F138 has lots of understeer, it didn't want to work on used tyres or on the medium. In qualy on fresh soft it was pretty fine, but as the tyres went away it was just horrible to drive. It generally lacks of traction and tends to have massive understeer coming from mid-speed corners. It is so-so unpleasant to drive that car on a track like the Hungaroring.
The Red Bull and the Lotus are fantastic to drive. Those cars go like on a rail. Vettel, Grosjean were the ones to watch in the chicane, those cars have incredible traction on low speed, no wheel-spin and stability over the kerbs. On top of that those cars loved turn 8. Incredible stability. Amazing, stunning, breath-taking. You could see with naked eyes how dominant those cars are on this part of the track. They are even better than the Mercedes. Nico was strong in turn 9, he was very early on the throttle on low-fuel coming out from that turn. Lewis is a real gokart racer. He always want to chop away from the track by using the kerbs, even in turn 9 he tried the touch the inside kerb even it means you can't be that early on the power.

The McLaren has quite a neutral balance, although Jenson couldn't get the front tyres get up to temp in qualy, that's why he had to wait under acceleration out of the middle-speed turns. The Renault-powered cars, especially the Caterhams let sound some interesting noises out of low-speed corners, it is very similiar to the sound created by off-throttle blowing. Dunno how they manage it under so thight regs.

I have to disappoint Alonso's fans. He drives his hearts out, you can't even image how many things that guy tried out during Friday. He tried different lines for example in turn 8, he tried to gear down in the middle of it to let the rear slide, etc. The Lotus and RB guys didn't have any head-aches, their cars were nearly perfect from the first lap on"

This sounds unsolvable. If Renault is doing something clever with the engines, we are done. This is something you won't figure out unless they (or FIA) tell you.

[scuderiafan]

This so sad that Red Bull has so much influence in F1 world, and Ferrari with so rich racing history doesn't. That is I think Ferrari problem, coz they let the, to be so marginal in last couple of years

This exhaust blowing could have been avoided had they been a little more forceful on the matter back in 2011. But that was a difficult decision so I can't really blame them, this is more of an FIA incompetence issue.
However changing these tyres to what Mercedes and RedBull demanded, which lo and behold benefit RedBull and Mercedes. They definitely could have handled that better.

However, since Lotus did fine with the new tyres also, there are other reasons also, and they need to that better again.

But no doubts, you are right. Ferrari have given up too much influence in F1, but I am afraid this is the RedBull era, and Vettel is now a massive draw, not Schumacher.

[Nova]

Gary Anderson:
Ferrari have lost their way. In the last four races Alonso has had a second, third, fourth and fifth. That slide is going in the wrong direction.
They are bringing developments to the track - as they did with a new diffuser in Hungary - but they are not using them in races.
So all of that research and effort is not being turned into performance.
Caution can be a positive when it comes to engineering, but Ferrari are guilty of over-caution.

They spent Friday in Hungary trying to compare the new diffuser with the old one. But it is impossible to do so-called back-to-back runs on a part as influential as that with the track changing as quickly as it does in Hungary.
That's because you can never be sure what is influencing the changes in car behaviour and lap time - is it the track evolution, or the new parts?
Sometimes you simply have to have faith in your simulation data, put the part on the car and get on with it. Because Ferrari are not, they are effectively going backwards, because while they are standing still everyone else is going forwards.
Mercedes had new parts on the car. They had a new front wing and they just got on with it.

Ferrari are in a halfway house. They're neither optimising the car, nor benefiting from new parts. Mercedes, Red Bull and Lotus by contrast, tend to stick new parts on the car, believe in them, and get on with it.

This is why Ferrari badly need former Lotus technical director James Allison to start work in his new role. They need someone to stand up and make those decisions.
You have to make decisions. They might be wrong, but at least by committing to something you get the bits on the car and get the best out of it that weekend.
It might only be 95% of the total potential of the car, but at least you got that 95%. If you back-to-back things all weekend, you don't get the best out of the car either with or without the new parts, so your overall performance is worse.

[shamim179]

Gary has a point there.

I cannot understand why they didn't run the new diffuser in Hungary. At least bolt it on Massa's car to see how it works in qualifying and in the race. Use that as a test session that would be invaluable data. Someone is not making the right decisions and/or needs more than enough data required to interpret the data.

I wonder if we actually ran any new parts in Hungary.

Something is really wrong in the team and it isn't just the windtunnel. The Toyota one works so what excuses are we going to hear this time?

[Nova]

The reason I posted the Anderson article is that during the last 2 races, this point was brought up by Steve Matchet NBC sports.
He mentioned quite a few times that Ferrari brought new parts and updates to the car, but "werent using them in the race"...

I dont think you can make progress being "safe"...Of course, tires play a big part, but at the same time, what actual updates have actually shown up
on the car???? You cant revert to previous updates..thats why theyre called updates.

The only person I can see with this decision is SD....You have great drivers, use them..you have updates..use them. Lets get on with it.

[996 GT1 Lover]

The reason I posted the Anderson article is that during the last 2 races, this point was brought up by Steve Matchet NBC sports.
He mentioned quite a few times that Ferrari brought new parts and updates to the car, but "werent using them in the race"...

I dont think you can make progress being "safe"...Of course, tires play a big part, but at the same time, what actual updates have actually shown up
on the car???? You cant revert to previous updates..thats why theyre called updates.

The only person I can see with this decision is SD....You have great drivers, use them..you have updates..use them. Lets get on with it.

You're right; Ferrari need to take more risks. I'm sure they could gain confidence with more testing, but other teams like RB, Lotus, and MB don't have this same issue; as Gary said, they just put the parts on the car and go with it.

[stefa]

You're right; Ferrari need to take more risks. I'm sure they could gain confidence with more testing, but other teams like RB, Lotus, and MB don't have this same issue; as Gary said, they just put the parts on the car and go with it.

Now with such a big points gap, we can take all the risk we (Ferrari) wants to take! If you as me I'll be on all guns blazing taking risk mode! There is nothing to loose (which is not already lost)!

[Tony]

The points gap though is the equivalent of being around 14 points back under the old system, it's not exactly as bad as it looks....

Regarding putting on new updates, I think the engineers are realizing that they are actually not beneficial in race conditions during Friday practice, if it's going to make the car slower than it already is, then it might not be the best option... the question is really finding out why, using a fully functional windtunnel, that this correlation problem is still occurring... given that the tyres are one of the factors that have changed recently, it's pretty clear what's happened IMHO....

[stefa]

The points gap though is the equivalent of being around 14 points back under the old system, it's not exactly as bad as it looks....

Regarding putting on new updates, I think the engineers are realizing that they are actually not beneficial in race conditions during Friday practice, if it's going to make the car slower than it already is, then it might not be the best option... the question is really finding out why, using a fully functional windtunnel, that this correlation problem is still occurring... given that the tyres are one of the factors that have changed recently, it's pretty clear what's happened IMHO....

Tony, with all due respect, it is not old system, and it si not 14, but BIG 39 points. With Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes working as they are in recent couple of races those 39 points looks EVEN BIGGER!

[Alonso14]

The points gap though is the equivalent of being around 14 points back under the old system, it's not exactly as bad as it looks....

Regarding putting on new updates, I think the engineers are realizing that they are actually not beneficial in race conditions during Friday practice, if it's going to make the car slower than it already is, then it might not be the best option... the question is really finding out why, using a fully functional windtunnel, that this correlation problem is still occurring... given that the tyres are one of the factors that have changed recently, it's pretty clear what's happened IMHO....

While this is true, it is not the full story. From Canada onwards we couldn't touch Red Bull (qualy + race). Sometimes Red Bull+Lotus, sometimes Bull+Merc, sometimes all of them. The point gap might not be MASSIVE but it is actually a reflection of the performance and this is the worrying part. Of course, such slumps can be overturned (Macca looked to have lost their way from Monaco to Silverstone in 2012 but brought updates for Germany and were back on track). And to top it, Red Bull are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS strong. Maybe they won't be the strongest in every race until the end but they will always be there with no more than one or two teams that could do them some damage. Even in Monza last year Vettel was easily running in 6th until his alternator gave up, and this is BY FAR their worst track on the calendar. Decisions in Ferrari has to be made and by the looks of it, unfortunately there is no one capable in the management to do them. At least not in a way to benefit us.

[Tony]

I agree that the state of the current car is worrisome, but what I'm saying is that if (and that's a big if right now) Ferrari can suddenly show up to Spa with a competitive car, they would still be in the hunt for the WDC. In terms of WCC, that's a bit of a foregone conclusion now unfortunately...

[Nero Horse]

Now with such a big points gap, we can take all the risk we (Ferrari) wants to take! If you as me I'll be on all guns blazing taking risk mode! There is nothing to loose (which is not already lost)!

I tend to agree with you on the risk taking thing. Perhaps we should start taking more risks, cause playing it safe obviously isn't working right now. Maybe we should go to Spa with "all guns blazing" strategy and just throw caution to the wind, cause we really ain't got much to lose, but everything to gain if this strategy works out.

[Kingdom Hearts]

I tend to agree with you on the risk taking thing. Perhaps we should start taking more risks, cause playing it safe obviously isn't working right now. Maybe we should go to Spa with "all guns blazing" strategy and just throw caution to the wind, cause we really ain't got much to lose, but everything to gain if this strategy works out.

This can work 1, 2 o 3 races if you are lucky, but not in 9 races. I rather have them using the rest of 2013 to fix stuff or to test for 2014 than going all crazy, because most of the time it doesn't work and we will be the laughing stock of F1. Said that, I hope we can improve the car and fight for both titles starting from Spa.

[stefa]

This can work 1, 2 o 3 races if you are lucky, but not in 9 races. I rather have them using the rest of 2013 to fix stuff or to test for 2014 than going all crazy, because most of the time it doesn't work and we will be the laughing stock of F1. Said that, I hope we can improve the car and fight for both titles starting from Spa.

I don't want to be negative on your thinking, wishing, praying... for WDC and CWC. Maybe, just maybe WDC is still possible, but CWC...

[Kingdom Hearts]

I don't want to be negative on your thinking, wishing, praying... for WDC and CWC. Maybe, just maybe WDC is still possible, but CWC...

I know that is going to be very difficult, in the case of the WCC, close to impossible, but I'm not ready to give up .

[XXX132]

There's still just under half the season left. It can be turned around but needs someone to pull their fingers out.

[Rob]

Stefano Domenicali orders Ferrari investigation into fading F1 form
By Jonathan Noble Friday, August 2nd 2013, 16:12 GMT

Ferrari F1 2013Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has ordered a detailed investigation by his technical chiefs in to why his team's race pace disappeared at the Hungarian Grand Prix.

The team has usually been stronger in the races than in qualifying, and believed the key to delivering the championship was simply to secure better grid spots.

In Hungary however the team struggled for the first time this year with its long-run form, leaving Fernando Alonso a frustrated fifth at the chequered flag.

One theory in the change in competitive form is that the switch to 2012 construction Pirelli tyres hurt the F138 more than other cars.

Domenicali thinks it is vital the team finds an explanation for what happened before the next race in Belgium, and whether or not the new tyres are to blame.

"We have seen that we have lost the gap that we had at the first few races," explained Domenicali.

"During the races, the pace was clearly very strong; now in the conditions here [in Hungary] we have seen that we are not where we wanted to be on both tyres - soft and medium.

"We need to understand if this is the case [that the new tyres hurt Ferrari] and how to react, because this will be the structure of tyres we have until the end of the season.

"Then a lot will depend on the choice of compounds for the races at the end of the season. It is something we need to analyse carefully – as it seems Mercedes has solved the issue that it was suffering massively in the races."

As well as the need to address on its tyre situation, Ferrari must also get its normal development work back on track, after updates introduced at the British and German Grands Prix did not bring the step forward they were meant to.

That meant the team had to revert to older specification parts in Hungary, meaning the car was essentially the same as it had been at the Spanish Grand Prix.

Domenicali acknowledged that there was a need to bring more from the wind tunnel, but he still felt there were reasons to be positive.

"After the very good race from the performance point in Germany and Silverstone, we have improved the car for qualifying – but we haven't for the race," he said.

"We have done a programme to be ready for Spa, and hopefully we are able to manage it.

"There is no reason to be feeling negative pressure. I am expecting a reaction from my technical group and this is what matters."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109145

[Nova]

IF it is tires..then it will be much harder to get right..as mentioned in the article, these are the tires we have to use the rest of the season.

Its not funny Merc is running good..Paddy Lowe is there now..and no wonder Mac has been struggling. 1 person does make a difference.
So I expect the return of Allison will help the Scuderia, and I certainly hope Ferrari can find a way to make the tires work.

I think Pirelli stinks for changing the tires midseason..its as though they are favoring certain teams and directing the WDC.
How can Todt even allow such a blatant display of what appears to be favoritism. So, I think the FIA stinks for allowing Pirelli to change
tires in the middle of the season. I was hoping for a stronger, fairer minded person
to run the fia. But this season shows it to be somewhat of a joke.

[Alonso14]

IF it is tires..then it will be much harder to get right..as mentioned in the article, these are the tires we have to use the rest of the season.

Its not funny Merc is running good..Paddy Lowe is there now..and no wonder Mac has been struggling. 1 person does make a difference.
So I expect the return of Allison will help the Scuderia, and I certainly hope Ferrari can find a way to make the tires work.

I think Pirelli stinks for changing the tires midseason..its as though they are favoring certain teams and directing the WDC.
How can Todt even allow such a blatant display of what appears to be favoritism. So, I think the FIA stinks for allowing Pirelli to change
tires in the middle of the season. I was hoping for a stronger, fairer minded person
to run the fia. But this season shows it to be somewhat of a joke.

The majority of the process of designing the 2013 car was done in 2012 and Lowe was still with McLaren back then. Their car appeared to be fundamentally flawed at the start of the year and the Merc already looked strong. Logically, Paddy Lowe is not the difference maker in the strong performance of Mercedes.

[Kiwi Nick]

If you can read these quotes from SD and not realize that he is the wrong man for the job, then you are an idiot, or worse. He is not a leader, he is a critic and inquisitor. His management style will crush any "genius" stolen from the competition to turn the program around.

It will be interesting to see if Ferrari use the summer break to move ahead or understand why they went backwards. If they follow SD's direction, there will be little time for moving forward.

[giodap]

IF it is tires..then it will be much harder to get right..as mentioned in the article, these are the tires we have to use the rest of the season.

Its not funny Merc is running good..Paddy Lowe is there now..and no wonder Mac has been struggling. 1 person does make a difference.
So I expect the return of Allison will help the Scuderia, and I certainly hope Ferrari can find a way to make the tires work.

I think Pirelli stinks for changing the tires midseason..its as though they are favoring certain teams and directing the WDC.
How can Todt even allow such a blatant display of what appears to be favoritism. So, I think the FIA stinks for allowing Pirelli to change
tires in the middle of the season. I was hoping for a stronger, fairer minded person
to run the fia. But this season shows it to be somewhat of a joke.

Hahahahahahaha paddy lowe! You actually think hes made a difference?...... merc are where they are because of a certain 3 day private and illegal tyre test, plain and simple! Since the test, mercs race pace has improved dramatically and had made this season a laughing stock. I have actually stopped watching since silverstone and i shall return in march when hopefully we have 11 teams all abiding by one set of rules

[FrankAlfa]

@ giodap,

Remember the Formula One is a "Business" first and foremost! We are talking about Grand Supremo : Bernie Ecclestone as the Master! He is pulling the Strings for Money. Red Bull for the past 6 years and now Mercedes! Everyone will get a chance to feel Glory! It is Mercedes turn now. "What is Old is Now New Again"! Glory from the Past to Glory in the Present! This is the Cycle that Bernie is Exploiting, Yes, EVERYTHING has been mapped out and contrived. Red Bull Cheating for many years and now Mercedes cheating and allowed to get away with it. The results speak doe themselves!

[brembo man]

We need to bring in Flavio and even the score. Nobody doe's it better.

[Nova]

Hahahahahahaha paddy lowe! You actually think hes made a difference?...... merc are where they are because of a certain 3 day private and illegal tyre test, plain and simple! Since the test, mercs race pace has improved dramatically and had made this season a laughing stock. I have actually stopped watching since silverstone and i shall return in march when hopefully we have 11 teams all abiding by one set of rules

Yep, I do think he"s made a difference.
Im hoping Allison brings some new ideas to Ferrari too.

[giodap]

@ giodap,

Remember the Formula One is a "Business" first and foremost! We are talking about Grand Supremo : Bernie Ecclestone as the Master! He is pulling the Strings for Money. Red Bull for the past 6 years and now Mercedes! Everyone will get a chance to feel Glory! It is Mercedes turn now. "What is Old is Now New Again"! Glory from the Past to Glory in the Present! This is the Cycle that Bernie is Exploiting, Yes, EVERYTHING has been mapped out and contrived. Red Bull Cheating for many years and now Mercedes cheating and allowed to get away with it. The results speak doe themselves!

Bernie is too powerful. Hes corrupt and he answers to nobody. you can tell he wants lewis hamilton to be successful at mercedes, he had alot to do with him going there and he had alot to do with mercs handy tyre test. Funny how his name is always kept out the picture when things go wrong...

[ManFromMilan]

Bernie is too powerful. Hes corrupt and he answers to nobody. you can tell he wants lewis hamilton to be successful at mercedes, he had alot to do with him going there and he had alot to do with mercs handy tyre test. Funny how his name is always kept out the picture when things go wrong...

It is all about the politics in the end and not so much the racing nowadays.

[Kiwi Nick]

Bernie is too powerful. Hes corrupt and he answers to nobody. you can tell he wants lewis hamilton to be successful at mercedes, he had alot to do with him going there and he had alot to do with mercs handy tyre test. Funny how his name is always kept out the picture when things go wrong...

Haven't you heard...thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain.

[ntukza]

Stefano Domenicali orders Ferrari investigation into fading F1 form
.... "We need to understand if this is the case [that the new tyres hurt Ferrari] and how to react, because this will be the structure of tyres we have until the end of the season.

So what exactly did we use the YDT for???

[Tony]

If you can read these quotes from SD and not realize that he is the wrong man for the job, then you are an idiot, or worse. He is not a leader, he is a critic and inquisitor. His management style will crush any "genius" stolen from the competition to turn the program around.

It will be interesting to see if Ferrari use the summer break to move ahead or understand why they went backwards. If they follow SD's direction, there will be little time for moving forward.

Hahahahahahaha paddy lowe! You actually think hes made a difference?...... merc are where they are because of a certain 3 day private and illegal tyre test, plain and simple! Since the test, mercs race pace has improved dramatically and had made this season a laughing stock. I have actually stopped watching since silverstone and i shall return in march when hopefully we have 11 teams all abiding by one set of rules

Please avoid making this personal.... we are all frustrated as fans, but it's a sport and none of us are being paid for the results of these events...

We're all entitled to our own opinions, there's no need for this....