Ferrari F138 - Development and News

[Jose Lorca]

@Jose Lorca,
Why are you convinced?

Because if we didn't suffer those problems we would have been right there with Red Bull last year. We were only slightly slower in the high speed corners but lost several tenths after a few slow corners.

--------------
I enjoyed reading this article on Autosport:

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104970

Brawn mentioning the loss of Bigois as one of the main reasons why Mercedes went backwards after such a great start to the season.

[zakfourie]

As far as I understand - Ross said the restructuring of the Aero department compromised their performance and development halfway through 2012.
He didn't say Biogois were the miracle maker whose departure meant the collapse of Merc aerodynamics.

[Greig]

Nobody is a miracle maker, but the comments suggest his departure was hard to fill for Mercedes.

[giodap]

so... we have the head of aero at merc (biogois) and head of aero at mclaren (sanchez) with us now? surely these new recruits coupled with our new tunnel next year, are going to make us razor sharp when it comes to aero. when 2014 comes, and the dice is rolled again, we have no excuses for not being innovative, especially with pat fry as technical director.

[stefa]

Talking from my experience of past few years, don’t believe any of these speculations. How fast RB9, F2013 or MP4-28 will be, only Australian GP would tell, not even winter testing.

Well said mate. I will not fall for any rumors or preseason testing results, as history learned us, all that does not mean any thing until first qualifying in Australia. Only than we will know exactly where we stand.

[fratelliferrari]

Yes that's true. I can remember me some years we were very fast in winter testing and when we came to Australia all of a sudden, the speed was out of the car... But I am really confident that we will have a fast car in 2013, and let's hope from the start and not from mid-season!

[Catalan]

I feel I'm growing old. Too many years expecting the winter tests, looking closely sector, lap times in Jerez, Catalunya during February. I won't do that anymore. This year I'm gonna take it easy, relax and enjoy. Not going to overreact to anything happening in February. Calm until Melbourne. I keep my faith in the Bigois, Sanchez, Fry and the rest of the guys, be veterans or new hirings. And please, feel no hurry to unveil the new car; I prefer they work one or two days more rather than being the first to show the challenger. Every minute of work will count.

By the way, I'd pay just to see engineers and aerodynamic staff working one day in Maranello now during the off season.

Happy 2013 to all of us

[fratelliferrari]

Yes you are right, we just have to wait and stay calm, just like raceweekends. A race is not won on Friday, and the Championships not during winter testing! Forza Ferrari!

[bluesilhouettes]

Niki Lauda: “I prefer a sober analysis of the situation rather than promising something we cannot deliver.”

[blaney1977]

Niki Lauda: “I prefer a sober analysis of the situation rather than promising something we cannot deliver.”

what was the cars weak point and how reallisticly achievable too fix for 2013? what time do we have too find?

[Greig]

Single lap pace was the obvious weak point, not sure what Lauda is on about though.

[FrankAlfa]

I think they had a bigger problem of getting heat into their tires, again. Geometry of the Suspension can and does influence the behavior of the tires and the rate at which they can gain heat due to Chamber, Caster, Etc. while stil maintaining maximum tracking. Lets hope the next version of this car will have different pickup points and geometry so the resulting suspension will have different behavior for the tires to gain more rapid heat. Anything can be Engineered in to a race car but finding the fine line of optimum perforamce is the key. It can be done.

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Rob]

I think they had a bigger problem of getting heat into their tires, again. Geometry of the Suspension can and does influence the behavior of the tires and the rate at which they can gain heat due to Chamber, Caster, Etc. while stil maintaining maximum tracking. Lets hope the next version of this car will have different pickup points and geometry so the resulting suspension will have different behavior for the tires to gain more rapid heat. Anything can be Engineered in to a race car but finding the fine line of optimum perforamce is the key. It can be done.

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

I think we were pretty good with getting tyres to temp. But our weak point was our DRS. When drivers had it open then close it under braking the rear end became, loose. Fernando and Felipe had no confidence to push hard into corners and carry speed to the apex. Thats why we suffered on Saturday, but come Sunday we were alot of the times better race car and could give RBR and Mclaren good race.

[bluesilhouettes]

Why RB was so good at very slow corner in Singapore ??
It's not because of aerodynamic grip. Because of mechanical grip I think.
So RB suspension was the main reason why they are so strong in slow speed corner. Maybe it has good dynamic characteristic.
But the problem is not at front suspension, it's on their rear suspension.
Studying RB used tyres (rear) may help.

[FrankAlfa]

@ Rob,

you certainly haver a valid point. The DRS during Qualifying was a big disadvantage for Ferrari. Qualifying in 2013 should be a much better situation for Ferrari but I still think they had some slow tire warm up many times during the year. I see the Tire warm up and the Qualifying issues improved in 2013. Downforce will be a critical area of development for Ferrari and the two, new key people hired in the Aero Department should advance the team quickly.

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Jas]

I think 2013 should be a good year for us, what i'm more concerned with is 2014, the fact we will not have a functioning wind tunnel untill september is concerning, this will mean two programmes been undertaken in the toyota wind tunnel at the same time, whatsmore, it will take a while for this windtunnel to be fully understood...so development in 2014 may be slow! heres hoping im wrong

[Tifoso]

I think 2013 should be a good year for us, what i'm more concerned with is 2014, the fact we will not have a functioning wind tunnel untill september is concerning, this will mean two programmes been undertaken in the toyota wind tunnel at the same time, whatsmore, it will take a while for this windtunnel to be fully understood...so development in 2014 may be slow! heres hoping im wrong

Why can't we use our old wind tunnel(s), again?

[FrankAlfa]

@ Tifoso,

The Ferrari Wind Tunnel is in a 30 million dollar "Rebuild Process" so the Ferrari Wind Tunnel is out of commission until August 2013' Obviously, it is a big under taking and Ferrari are using the Toyota Wind Tunnel in Cologne in the mean time to gain "Aero Data" for the 2013' race car and most likely for the 2014' race car as well. This data gained in this Wind Tunnel will be used to design both race cars and certainly the data gained in this Wind Tunnel can be used for both design years.

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Tifoso]

@ Tifoso,

The Ferrari Wind Tunnel is in a 30 million dollar "Rebuild Process" so the Ferrari Wind Tunnel is out of commission until August 2013' Obviously, it is a big under taking and Ferrari are using the Toyota Wind Tunnel in Cologne in the mean time to gain "Aero Data" for the 2013' race car and most likely for the 2014' race car as well. This data gained in this Wind Tunnel will be used to design both race cars and certainly the data gained in this Wind Tunnel can be used for both design years.

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Grazie, fratello

[zakfourie]

Why do I think Ferrari had two windtunnels? Apart from the Toyota one?
Forgive if I'm wrong or dreamt it......

[zakfourie]

Why RB was so good at very slow corner in Singapore ??
It's not because of aerodynamic grip. Because of mechanical grip I think.
So RB suspension was the main reason why they are so strong in slow speed corner. Maybe it has good dynamic characteristic.
But the problem is not at front suspension, it's on their rear suspension.
Studying RB used tyres (rear) may help.

I think part of the reason why Red Bull is so quick in the slow corners is due to their powerplant.
Renualt engines is known for their excellent torque characteristics at low speeds/rev's. Remember
it was also the case in the Ferrari MS vs Renault FA days... Where as the Ferrari had the power at
medium to high end speeds/rev's.

[wisepie]

It's all very well trying to analyse the weak points of the F2012 such as the tyre warming and DRS issues in quali, the designers and engineers obviously know what the issues were and will surely do what they can to avoid the same problems again, but this may come at the expense of something else. It's the fine-tuning that takes the effort and with no testing other than the brief pre-season shake-down, only when they get to Melbourne can they see where we stand competitively and react accordingly. Hopefully, this year we'll be in a better place at the beginning and have something concrete to build on. We all know that the hype of pre-season testing can be very misleading, as well as disheartening if you pay too much attention to it. Avanti is the only way to go!

[Catalan]

Some points for 2013:

- It´s impossible the single seater is born worse than the F2012 ( 1 point to be optimistic )
- It´s impossible Alonso performs better than last year. He delivered a perfect season ( 1 point not to be that optimistic, although he´s God to me )

The key will be in the first part of the season, let´s say until the summer break. With the massive change expected for 2014, I am sure that the teams that are not doing well in July will stop their development and turn to the 2014 project. So, this might be a boring season in case any driver/team wins three of the first races, as he will take a big advantage and the rest of the field may prefer to focus in 2014 then.
Thus, a strong start is going to be key, now more than ever.

I wouldn´t be surprised if some team " throws away " the 2013 season. I still remember the gossip in 2008 that Honda was throwing the year as they had something big for 2009, as it happened with the Brawn challenger.

Well, just thoughts.

[blaney1977]

The acer duct concept that failed and then the redesign at mugello, I take it we were stuck with that and just couldn't make the the same jump again that mclaren and red bull made? The 0.5 sec jump midway through season they both managed while we were just trying so many wings, rear wings etc. so surely the starting point this year should not be as bad and a clear development path should be ahead?

[FrankAlfa]

Well Alonso's season was NOT perfect as some are saying! He had several accidents, no fault of his own that would have made him the Driver's Champion! So there certainly is room for greater results from both the car and luck! I do not believe in the negative attitude of if you fix one thing something else will not work well. I believe in the attitude of fix as many things as you can and strive for perfection. Work toward reaching the zenith of optimal Design and Engineering! Ferrari have strengthened there Engineering / Design team and they have found areas of the car to correct and improve. Ferrari should be in much better shape in the 2013 season!

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[bluesilhouettes]

I think part of the reason why Red Bull is so quick in the slow corners is due to their powerplant.
Renualt engines is known for their excellent torque characteristics at low speeds/rev's. Remember
it was also the case in the Ferrari MS vs Renault FA days... Where as the Ferrari had the power at
medium to high end speeds/rev's.

Grip limits the torque. I believe that Fer/Merc/Renault engines can produce enough torque at low/mid range of rev to make the car spin.

[gjoko-mkd]

there are some explanations how will be the look of project f2013

[Rob]

Ferrari 2013 car tuned
Will continuo, with special attention to the resolution of the rear.

MADRID 04/01/13 - 12:46.

Ferrari's new project, called 664, has entered its final phase. The new car, which will be presented in late January or early February in Maranello has entered the final phase of development, to be tried in basic aerodynamics with which the test will start in Jerez staging the 5th next month.

The F2013 is probably called that is not in principle a revolutionary car and keep the identity of its predecessor in terms of mechanics and basic scheme of suspensions and chassis. They try to maintain the virtues that led him to fight for the championship until the last race and you will probably not start so far from its rivals as in the first races of 2012.

THE PATTERN OF LEAKS, RED BULL
It was an area neglected by many at the start of 2012, but later revealed vital for good performance cars. After the problems experienced to find the best configuration of the exhausts, which succeeded in the Canadian Grand Prix in July, Ferrari has the challenge of getting a car back more efficiently. Dual exhausts Red Bull, with the steep descending channel and the lower tunnel dug with aerodynamic effect seems the role model not only in Maranello, but the rest of the grid.
On that basis it would be best to imitate the virtues of the rear of Red Bull, and taking certain risks, such as a double DRS explore liability, a possibility that will certainly have multiple computers in your schedule, from the champion at McLaren , Lotus and Mercedes.

Complete development in the wind tunnel in Cologne
One of the main challenges this year is to avoid data duplication that occurred last year when using the Maranello wind tunnel near the old Toyota in Cologne, also used by other teams as McLaren. This time around the design and development will be done in Germany, as the Italian tunnel is closed to be rebuilt completely. The works will end in September.

Therefore not have to wait long to test track during the season to ascertain whether the data provided are correct each evolution, as happened in 2012. This lack of correlation was one of the burdens that sank the F2012 at the last stage of the season against Red Bull. Maintain front suspension pull-rod ' was the biggest bet in the F2012 Pat Fry, a solution in previous suspensions was not used in Formula 1 since 2001 and seemed very risky. The aerodynamic benefits and car guiding accuracy (in the wet) were evident. Such a success that McLaren and Mercedes says to copy the model in their new cars.

In contrast, the push-rod, which is probably maintained by Newey on the RB09, provides a wider window to extract the best possible performance of the Pirelli tires, as it is somewhat less sensitive to temperature changes.

New more compact gearbox
is one of the bets of the engine department, get a more compact transmission without losing the reliability of the current. It is essential to redesign the engine cover that goes down to the diffuser and get a wide area of aerodynamic efficiency, the style of Red Bull. Suspensions and rear axle shaft area was another area in which Red Bull did a great performance. The rear axle shaft fairing and the area around the brakes helped them to win a lot of load points combined with leaks. The department aerodynamic Ferrari, boosted by Luc Bigois (formerly Mercedes) and Ben Agathangelou works with Pat Fry on getting the best possible solutions.

The New Double DRS Lotus passive style?
has been allowed in the regulations of the FIA for this year and is a field in which Lotus and Mercedes worked late 2012. Lateral air inlets on both sides of the main engine (on the pilot's head) down to the lower rear spoiler (beam wing) with a bulky conduit. Opening the DRS, the two wings, top and bottom, lose charge and the car gains in speed. DRS use is limited to the race this year, so that the system will have a very limited impact.

http://www.marca.com/2013/01/04/moto...357300017.html

[zakfourie]

Grip limits the torque. I believe that Fer/Merc/Renault engines can produce enough torque at low/mid range of rev to make the car spin.

mmmmmm yeah... Ferrari/Renault/Merc engines have all exactly the same engine characteristics.............

[fratelliferrari]

That picture a few posts above looks nice! But it's not so important if the car is nice, we have to have a fast car from the beginning of the season now. But Iam confident we are gonna be good this year!