Ferrari F138 - Development and News

[Ed Harley]

God i hate this smug vettel, saying theywill improve the system even more...it shows that red bull are not all just aero, this is their engine and electrinics dept for god sake!

He told reporters: "Other people will never figure out how we've done it."

"Neener-neener-neener!"

Think about it - soon they will be three seconds per lap faster.

[Corey]

He told reporters: "Other people will never figure out how we've done it."

APart from the Red Bull camp there is still one group of people who knows how they have done it, and that will be the people at FIA who had to open up the car and closely inspect it to make sure they weren't cheating. If Ferrari can get hold of that bunch and make them blurt out what secret they saw in the RB9 then it would be quite easy to figure everything out from there...

[Massimo181]

I doubt Vettel knows what RedBull have done he is bluffing, Some teams do not tell their drivers what they have updated on the car!?! He is just feeling smug and being !!! He will fall soon and when he does we just have to make sure we are in hunt to pick up the pieces! If it was not for RedBull we would have good grand prix and we would have the fastest cars along with Merc! But Redbull gives the FIA and Bernie wings!!

[tifosi1993]

Korea International Circuit, Yeongam, Korea (04/10/2013)

[Stormsearcher]

Probably a stupid question.. but there are more than enough high res, close up pics of these cars on the net. Why cant we just copy the dam aero specs of the RBR if we cant get it right on our own?

[Winter]

APart from the Red Bull camp there is still one group of people who knows how they have done it, and that will be the people at FIA who had to open up the car and closely inspect it to make sure they weren't cheating. If Ferrari can get hold of that bunch and make them blurt out what secret they saw in the RB9 then it would be quite easy to figure everything out from there...

Many people blame RedBull as cheaters only because they have been so superior.

Cheating would be something you just suggested. And if there are no other way to beat them, let them win, best deserves to win.

[F1NAC]

Probably a stupid question.. but there are more than enough high res, close up pics of these cars on the net. Why cant we just copy the dam aero specs of the RBR if we cant get it right on our own?

you think that is easy? for example you can see front wing from outside, but you cannot see the channels under the wing

[tifosi1993]

Korea International Circuit, Yeongam, Korea (05/10/2013)

[Jas]

off topic but I wonder who it could be...not an of boys is it?

McLaren set to announce major technical signing

Saturday 05th October 2013, 14:22 by TF1T Staff




© McLaren


McLaren look set to announce a major signing in their technical department as they bid to get back on track in 2014.

The Woking outfit, which is more used to winning races, hasn't even come close to securing a podium in '13, which would make it their first podium-less season since 1980.

As a result, team principal Martin Whitmarsh revealed that new engineers have and will be joining, but their names have yet to be announced and he even hinted at a major signing.

"This year we cannot be satisfied where we are," he said. "So we have been recruiting in the technical team, strengthening that quite a lot actually. There have been quite a few new starters this year.

"There are some yet unannounced that will be headline grabbing when they are announced, so there are things going on clearly.

"We have to look at ourselves as a team, from the top of the management all the way through to our technical team, to make sure we can return to winning ways as quickly as possible."

It isn't clear who Whitmarsh is referring too, but McLaren recently signed Sauber's Matt Morris in what is just one of a number of changes up and down the grid.
- See more at: http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/displa....eTMFKHD5.dpuf

[Jas]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../907/1106.html

Ferrari update detail

[Aberracus]

James Allison influence at last?, and we are running without monkey seat, that's good, less drag.
I think Ferrari has move a step forward this round.

[Tifoso]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../907/1106.html

Ferrari update detail

Thanks, amico mio

[Piceey]

Good step forward.....we've lost our race pace.We're dropping back race by race.

[Kyss4k]

Good step forward.....we've lost our race pace.We're dropping back race by race.

Yep, we succesfully developed F138 to a snail.

[Rob]

Good step forward.....we've lost our race pace.We're dropping back race by race.

To be fair, the whole team said after Friday sessions we would struggle due to high tyre deg.

[stefa]

To be fair, the whole team said after Friday sessions we would struggle due to high tyre deg.

...there is always something to our car... ALWAYS!

[FER]

...there is always something to our car... ALWAYS!

F138 is not interesting anymore, at least regarding 2013. The best we can do from till the end of the season is to test and prepare maximum quantity and maximum quality of parts for the car next year.

[Senna4Ever]

...there is always something to our car... ALWAYS!

And somehow there is always positive in total when I read the post race interview from Mr. Domenicali

just don't want to congratulate myself but I can look in the future
I said 10 laps after start

And I can hear already the non meaning bla bla of our team principal and of the guy who should be responsible to improve our car ...
"this is not the result what Ferrari wants, but this that and that and this ... BUT we need to stay calm, it is only the 14th race of the year ..."

and now compare the statement of both on official home page ...

[pluto]

Why is our nose so high and open, compared to the low and tight fronts of the redbull and lotus? Their cars squat down to the ground and look fast, while our car looks like its out to take off into the air. It just looks wrong and its no co incidence those cars are so much quicker. Its been like that for years with ferrari they keep using the same design philosophy despite it clearly not getting the results. Its unbelievable, and seems like tombazis does not know what hes doing and only knows one way.

[Hornet]

Why is our nose so high and open, compared to the low and tight fronts of the redbull and lotus? Their cars squat down to the ground and look fast, while our car looks like its out to take off into the air. It just looks wrong and its no co incidence those cars are so much quicker. Its been like that for years with ferrari they keep using the same design philosophy despite it clearly not getting the results. Its unbelievable, and seems like tombazis does not know what hes doing and only knows one way.

The nose are high to gather as much air as possible to be flown around the sidepod, and to the rear of the car above the diffuser. You want as much air as possible flowing above the diffuser. Same reason why the rear of the car is getting smaller, to ensure more air is flowing.

Red Bull however, sacrifice their sidepod air flow because they wanted to build a ramp to allow the exhaust gas to flow to the diffuser. Because the exhaust gas and sidepod flow are going towards different direction and they cross each other, you can only utilize one and sacrifice the other. Since Red Bull don't need as much flow around their sidepod, perhaps that's why they don't need that maximum nose height. Sidepod flow is still important for us.

[pluto]

The nose are high to gather as much air as possible to be flown around the sidepod, and to the rear of the car above the diffuser. You want as much air as possible flowing above the diffuser. Same reason why the rear of the car is getting smaller, to ensure more air is flowing.

Red Bull however, sacrifice their sidepod air flow because they wanted to build a ramp to allow the exhaust gas to flow to the diffuser. Because the exhaust gas and sidepod flow are going towards different direction and they cross each other, you can only utilize one and sacrifice the other. Since Red Bull don't need as much flow around their sidepod, perhaps that's why they don't need that maximum nose height. Sidepod flow is still important for us.

Well considering the poor pace of our cars since 2011, maybe we should have changed the design philosophy instead of doing the same thing year after year and being crushed by redbull, and other cars? its clearly a rubbish concept.

[tifosi1993]

Why is our nose so high and open, compared to the low and tight fronts of the redbull and lotus? Their cars squat down to the ground and look fast, while our car looks like its out to take off into the air. It just looks wrong and its no co incidence those cars are so much quicker. Its been like that for years with ferrari they keep using the same design philosophy despite it clearly not getting the results. Its unbelievable, and seems like tombazis does not know what hes doing and only knows one way.

Higher nose is better than lower nose. Higher nose channels more air underneath of the car. So the air flow through diffuser increases which improves the suction effect on the car towards ground.

But RB9 generates tremendous amount of rear downforce by sealing the diffuser with exhaust gasses, so its probably don't need higher nose.

[bonzo]

Thread title has to be changed-there was no development throughout this season on F138. There was only deterioration.

[Kingdom Hearts]

Thread title has to be changed-there was no development throughout this season on F138. There was only deterioration.

More like downgrade in some races.

[Gerhard Berger]

Look how high and wide our sidepods are in comparison to Red Bull.

[Bubbles]

Look how high and wide our sidepods are in comparison to Red Bull.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one to see that.

No wonder there's less air reaching the floor and the top of the diffuser. Also, notice the larger front wing to compensate for extra df at the back.

[diesel08]

"We need a fast car"...so that's it! F138 development is history.

[Kiwi Nick]

Exactly! I thought I was the only one to see that.

No wonder there's less air reaching the floor and the top of the diffuser. Also, notice the larger front wing to compensate for extra df at the back.

Not only is RBR getting more flow to the rear because of their smaller side pods, their rear wing is smaller. So they are creating more downforce while producing less drag. That may also affect their gearing, which could be lower, sacrificing top speed for improved acceleration. Just think how quickly Vettel jumps away at the start of races and how the RB gets through and out of corners more quickly. Yet, you never see RB near the top of the speed trap charts.

I would be very interested to see Lotus and Sauber compared to the F138 in the same way.

[Bubbles]

Not only is RBR getting more flow to the rear because of their smaller side pods, their rear wing is smaller. So they are creating more downforce while producing less drag. That may also affect their gearing, which could be lower, sacrificing top speed for improved acceleration. Just think how quickly Vettel jumps away at the start of races and how the RB gets through and out of corners more quickly. Yet, you never see RB near the top of the speed trap charts.

I would be very interested to see Lotus and Sauber compared to the F138 in the same way.

All that is true.

I also notices RBR's diffuser has max width (i.e., stretched to the sides without any weird appendices) to tap into the low-pressure regions behind the rear wheels, thus effectivelly enlarging the diffuser.

Clever stuff, shame Tombazis didn't think of any of that.

[Gerhard Berger]

Not only is RBR getting more flow to the rear because of their smaller side pods, their rear wing is smaller. So they are creating more downforce while producing less drag. That may also affect their gearing, which could be lower, sacrificing top speed for improved acceleration. Just think how quickly Vettel jumps away at the start of races and how the RB gets through and out of corners more quickly. Yet, you never see RB near the top of the speed trap charts.

I would be very interested to see Lotus and Sauber compared to the F138 in the same way.

Newey once said in an interview that they run shorter gears because their simulations tell them that is produces the fastest lap time. If they want to, they can run longer gears (e.g. as they did with Webber this weekend). But you are correct, they produce more downforce through the diffuser so they can afford to run a skinnier wing which means less drag. Their car is not draggy, it just lacks top end speed because they choose to run a shorter 7th gear.

I'm surprised that Tombazis has gone with the high sidepods. One of the reasons the F2002 was so dominant was because of the low sidepods, and Tombazis was involved in that car.

Part of the reason we have such high sidepods and larger air intakes is because of our vertical radiators. I don't know why we went for this approach because most teams switched from vertical radiators to the slanted radiators some years ago.