How good is Sebastian Vettel?

[Jose Lorca]

Great post mate but come on you have McLaren driver on avatar !!

Not anymore

[Rob]

Not anymore

like your new 1 mate :xmasbiggrin:

[Lesky]

Until RBR changed the rear end and the exhaust positions, Mark was beating Vettel. Felipe struggled, yeah but when he got comfortable and the team made few changes to the car he was back to 2008 Felipe. Anyone could beat Vettel in a "normal" car. I mean without it bowing the rear.

Lol, you seriously believe Massa would beat Vettel in a Red Bull? If so, maybe the entire grid would beat Vettel in Webbers place? There is absolutely nothing that indicates Massa would beat Vettel in equal cars. Then I guess Red Bull will sign Massa next year? If he is quicker than Vettel than all teams should be interested!

When I mentioned 10% of the races that were pushing it a bit, but the last years Massa has shown nothing to suggest he is a top 5 driver. I love Massa as a person, but you have to admit his results have been extremly poor.

[fratelliferrari]

You are talking only nonsens Lesky. Massa wasn't extremely poor as you said. Maybe you don't have a television and only look to the results, but Felipe had a lot of bad luck the last seasons!!!

[Rob]

Lol, you seriously believe Massa would beat Vettel in a Red Bull? If so, maybe the entire grid would beat Vettel in Webbers place? There is absolutely nothing that indicates Massa would beat Vettel in equal cars. Then I guess Red Bull will sign Massa next year? If he is quicker than Vettel than all teams should be interested!

When I mentioned 10% of the races that were pushing it a bit, but the last years Massa has shown nothing to suggest he is a top 5 driver. I love Massa as a person, but you have to admit his results have been extremly poor.

In the Red Bull that started the season with yeah, as did Webber, it was only since Singapore did they get the car to how SV likes and we saw him win again, and happy. When the car wasnt sticking to the track and letting him drive it to his style he wasnt fast. Hence why Webber could beat him. And yes, Felipe could beat him. If RBR didt change the rear, he wouldnt be 3 times WDC.

[Giallo 550]

Lol, you seriously believe Massa would beat Vettel in a Red Bull? If so, maybe the entire grid would beat Vettel in Webbers place? There is absolutely nothing that indicates Massa would beat Vettel in equal cars. Then I guess Red Bull will sign Massa next year? If he is quicker than Vettel than all teams should be interested!

When I mentioned 10% of the races that were pushing it a bit, but the last years Massa has shown nothing to suggest he is a top 5 driver. I love Massa as a person, but you have to admit his results have been extremly poor.

Did someone miss the entire second half of the season?

[fratelliferrari]

Yes that were my thoughts exactly too. Felipe drove really fantastic after the summer break, but maybe some people don't want to see that!

[albert]

if a 36 year old journeyman like webber who has acomplished nowhere near what massa has in the sport, can be beating vettel on points until Spa, then why cant Massa? The only reason webber seems quicker is because he has been sitting in the fastest car for pretty much the last 4 years while massa has been sitting in average cars, and that does amazing things to the perceptions of a driver.

[fratelliferrari]

I agree 100% with you on that albert!

[Giallo 550]

if a 36 year old journeyman like webber who has acomplished nowhere near what massa has in the sport, can be beating vettel on points until Spa, then why cant Massa? The only reason webber seems quicker is because he has been sitting in the fastest car for pretty much the last 4 years while massa has been sitting in average cars, and that does amazing things to the perceptions of a driver.

We have a winner!

It will be very interesting to see how the 2013 season goes for Fernando and Felipe. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they are both given a good car.

[AfterLife]

Question: How good is sebastian vettel?
Answer: not good

[fratelliferrari]

Yes let's hope for a competitive car in 2013 so Felipe and Fernando both can show they are better then Pettel!

[Lesky]

Yes let's hope for a competitive car in 2013 so Felipe and Fernando both can show they are better then Pettel!

How would they prove that? If Ferrari has the quickest car and wins the championship it will only be because they "drove a rocket ship" using the logic on here

[fratelliferrari]

No Lesky I mean a more competitive car. We -Ferrari- don't have to have the fastest car on the grid to win. We have the best drivers so if they get a little bit of a better car then this year's we will beat Vettel with both our drivers!

[theforce]

Seb is at best an average driver. I'm sure Nico H would give him a good run.

[Massa#1]

Vettel is in the top 3.

Any less smacks of sour grapes.

[R Ginart]

Question: How good is sebastian vettel?
Answer: not good

How good is Vettel? he is good, is he very good? NO He is an average driver in an extraordinary car.

[varun]

Vettel is just an average driver in an superior car.
Why are we discussing so much about Pettel??..i have got off seeing this thread being active from so many days...
it is simple...Vettel is an average driver and has got titles more than he deserves...courtesy Adrain Newey!

[R Ginart]

Three time WCD: Nelson Piquet: WDC 1981 driving the BT49 Brabham, WDC 1983 driving the BMW-Brabham BT52, and WDC 1987 driving the Williams-Honda.
A three time champion in a clas that Vettel can't compare with. As varun stated it is simple...Vettel is an average driver and has got titles more than he deserves...courtesy Adrain Newey!

[Lesky]

Well, how do you see Vettel developing over the coming years?

Is it fair to assume he will mature as a driver and close the supposed gap to Alonso?

Alonso should be at his peak very soon!

[Jose Lorca]

As for the claims Alonso is a better driver, Vettel insisted: “I don’t want to stand here and prove my performance, but we have also won races that we should not have. Monaco last year, for example, when I made the decision against all reason to go with a one stop. Also Barcelona 2011, when Hamilton was faster but he couldn’t get past me.”
http://www.f1zone.net/news/vettel-no...-better/17223/

He talks as if he's capable of doing what Alonso can, but completely misses the point - Alonso has won races where Red Bull and McLaren were faster, whereas Vettel has only won when McLaren had a quicker car, never when Ferrari were quicker.

Also those two races he mentions are bad examples. He had the best car in qualifying on both occasions and those circuits are not good for overtaking. He got so lucky in Monaco as well - McLaren messed up Button's strategy and without the second safety car helping Vettel at the end he either would have been overtaken by Alonso or crashed into by Alonso - either way he wouldn't have won the race.

[radosav]

Well, how do you see Vettel developing over the coming years?

Is it fair to assume he will mature as a driver and close the supposed gap to Alonso?

Alonso should be at his peak very soon!

As Alonso fan i can tell you that Alonso was at Schumi level of driving ( i am talking about Alonso not making mistakes and his driving maturity ) when he won his titles in 2005. and 2006.
That is why i started to cheer for him, and i was Schumi fan by that point.
I still don't see this in Vettel. When he starts to overtake i don't have the feeling that knows what he is doing. I remember in 2011 when he had fastest car, if he had to overtake he would get close to car in front and than didn't know how to position his car for the attack in the next corner. You should see this in Silverstone and Germany GP 2011. Vettel isn't rookie , he has 3 WDC's and over 100 GP's, so i am not convinced that his racecraft will develop in future. Either you have or you don't. Kimi and Fernando have it, Lewis too.