Red Bull are probably cheating thread

[Nando]

http://pitpass.com/46890-Red-Bull-in...irregulatities

[Nando]

Sorry - delete this pls mods.. Already in race thread!

[ferrari4life]

since the race is over... can this thread stay open..
Why is no one talking about this more.

[ferrari4life]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101438

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali says he told his team to ignore the Red Bull technical row that broke out ahead of the German Grand Prix.

The FIA released a statement four hours before the start of the race revealing that its technical delegate Jo Bauer had referred a matter surrounding the Red Bull's engine maps to the stewards of the meeting.

The stewards eventually decided to take no action just ahead of the race, and after Fernando Alonso's victory Domenicali revealed that he had warned his team not to pay any attention to the matter.

"When I first saw the note from the technical delegate, I said 'stay focused on our job today,'" Domenicali told reporters after the race. "This is something that engineers see and they try to think about.

"But no, stay focused on what you have to do. Forget about what is happening."

The FIA's technical working group is holding a scheduled meeting tomorrow, and Domenicali believes that the situation surrounding Red Bull will become clearer after that.

"We need to understand what is the point raised by the technical delegate, and what is the point from the stewards," he said. "Right now I don't have anything to add. Tomorrow there will be a technical meeting and this will be discussed.

"We rely on the regulator, the FIA, to make sure the fight has to be fair. If I had any single doubt that that is not the case, I would do something else.

"I am a sportsman; I always congratulate the others when they win, and I never speak bad about the others even if they speak about us. But I have to rely on the regulator to do its job."

[ferrari1.8t]

since the race is over... can this thread stay open..
Why is no one talking about this more.

There is the F1 Technical Working Group meeting today to discuss this. I'm sure that once the meeting is out and the results are in, there will be plenty of discussion about the topic. Not much else to say until we hear the results.

[ferrari4life]

any idea what time this will be. Its already the middle of monday in most of the world. Any chance we have some news leaking out of this meeting?

[Greig]

Was said they might discuss it today, but the meeting was not called just for this issue.

[ferrari4life]

I really hope that this is setteled before the next race..
Last year Ferrari choose to do the right thing and fall on the sword to allow the throttle deal after Silverstone.. This year I think it would be justified to ban them once and for all.

[Hornet]

Ross Brawn said its certainly not over yet yesterday during the grid walk interview.

I hope they will close up any loophole. Otherwise the whole rule changes to prevent blown diffuser will be a huge joke.

[Grillo]

Any piece of news on the matter will be appreciated.

[burak karakutuk]

No penalty or no rule changing.I heard it fresh so everybody has to copy it there is nothing to do.I hope we have it soon...

[Hermann]

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
F1 tech meeting ends with no decision on whether there will be a rule clarification on Red Bull controversy pre-Hungary. More soon

'Same as last year, Miss Sophie?' 'Same as every year, James'

[mirafiori]

also do you think it is correct that the race steward of the day Derek warwick, was talking to C.Horner about the engine map situation on the pit wall, as seen on sky and heard saying to CH you are stretching the enverlope.imo this not the way a race official should conduct himself on race day.

[Tifoso]

The SPEED guys seemed to talk as if RB's goose is cooked. We'll see, I guess.

[sav_pap]

I'm sure no penalty will be given. These guys put huge money in F1 circus, noone can do anything against them. Wdc will be a huge achievement for alonso in November.

[Tifoso]

I'm sure no penalty will be given. These guys put huge money in F1 circus, noone can do anything against them. Wdc will be a huge achievement for alonso in November.

If it is illegal, it will be changed. No other option, really.

[Red passion]

The SPEED guys seemed to talk as if RB's goose is cooked. We'll see, I guess.

Red Bull are not down and out, we will see how they are in Hungary they will defo come back strong for the rest of the season and when we reach 5/6 races left in the season, FA will have FM as his rear gunner and SV will have MW. SV immediate job is to focus on passing webber in the standings to get the whole team to back him.

[Tifoso]

Red Bull are not down and out, we will see how they are in Hungary they will defo come back strong for the rest of the season and when we reach 5/6 races left in the season, FA will have FM as his rear gunner and SV will have MW. SV immediate job is to focus on passing webber in the standings to get the whole team to back him.

My point is, if they are cheating, and it can be proven, they will be forced to go to conventional engine mapping, and will undoubtedly suffer as a result.

[Greig]

Hopefully the FIA stamp it out before Hungary but I am not so sure, seems it's McLaren who are most upset by it and it seems both teams are having some niggles with each other currently, Ferrari again seem to just be keeping away from any politics which is strange

[Tifoso]

Hopefully the FIA stamp it out before Hungary but I am not so sure, seems it's McLaren who are most upset by it and it seems both teams are having some niggles with each other currently, Ferrari again seem to just be keeping away from any politics which is strange

It is, but maybe they figure that we are doing well enough not to have to worry about it?

Either that, or maybe we are doing it, too? ( because we would suffer, not because I'd be all that upset about it )

It should be taken care of before Hungary, but there isn't much time. OTOH, re-adjusting engine mapping wouldn't be that time consuming to fix, I'd imagine (not saying that RB wouldn't suffer, though).

[Uzair Ahmed]

In redbull team Adrian Newey should be blamed for it?

[Red passion]

Hopefully the FIA stamp it out before Hungary but I am not so sure, seems it's McLaren who are most upset by it and it seems both teams are having some niggles with each other currently, Ferrari again seem to just be keeping away from any politics which is strange

red bull and McLaren not happy with each other, good. Damon Hill said yesterday to Horner that McLaren and Red Bull will have to work together to halt Ferrari, wow back to the old days, two teams have to help each other to take us down.

[Tifoso]

red bull and McLaren not happy with each other, good. Damon Hill said yesterday to Horner that McLaren and Red Bull will have to work together to halt Ferrari, wow back to the old days, two teams have to help each other to take us down.

In all fairness to Hill, he is a moron.

[sav_pap]

Ferrari at the present want to stay out of politics. Weeks before there were discussions about F1 sharings to be given to some teams. Of course things happen backstage which cannot be informed to us.

[scuderiafan]

F1 seeks computer rule change on Red Bull

Formula 1 bosses are working to introduce a rule change to outlaw controversial engine settings on the Red Bull.

The issue arose at Sunday's German Grand Prix and was discussed at a meeting of senior officials on Monday.

Red Bull were cleared by race stewards after accusations by governing body the FIA of running illegal engine settings.

The FIA is trying to produce a rule clarification in time for this weekend's Hungarian Grand Prix.

But it wants to ensure any rule change does not lead to other problems and no decision has yet been made on whether that will be possible.

What is torque?
Torque is defined as "the twisting or rotary force in a piece of mechanism (as a measurable quantity)".
The amount of torque in relation to the engine speed can have an affect on the car's traction.

It is unlikely there will be a decision before the end of Wednesday.

The row revolves around an immensely complicated issue to do with the computer settings - so-called maps - that control the amount of torque delivered by the engine in various conditions.

The FIA's concern is that Red Bull and engine manufacturer Renault are using reduced torque settings for a given engine speed. These act as a form of traction control, limiting wheelspin out of corners.

Governing body the FIA found that Red Bull's engine was delivering less torque at full throttle in the mid-range of the engine's rev band in Germany than it had at the preceding British Grand Prix.

They said this was a breach of article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations, which states that the "maximum accelerator travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed".

The verdict on Sunday said: "While the stewards do not accept all the arguments of the team, they however conclude that as the regulation is written the map presented does not breach article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations."

The idea of the rule is to prevent the engine delivering less power to the wheels than it can do, as doing so is a form of traction control, which is banned.

However, teams are allowed to change their engine maps from race to race - and Red Bull were cleared because there was no definition of how big these changes could be before they were not allowed.

The FIA is aiming to close that loophole.

If it succeeds, it will be a simple matter for Red Bull to switch back to an earlier map than the one they used in Germany.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18957915

[Tifoso]

F1 seeks computer rule change on Red Bull

If it succeeds, it will be a simple matter for Red Bull to switch back to an earlier map than the one they used in Germany.

That's what I figured. Thanks mate.

Will hurt RB, obviously, at least short term.

[Grinsomx]

Will hurt RB, obviously, at least short term.

looking at the race, their cheat-settings did not really help them either.

i am not convinced changing any rule will help for long either, these last years we see the FIA change rule after rule for teams to find a way around it.
who says they will not find something else during the summer break?
i know, all teams try to find the grey areas in the rulebook but maybe thats the one thing that really has to change?
i don't know, guess thats why they call it a circus..

[Tifoso]

looking at the race, their cheat-settings did not really help them either.

i am not convinced changing any rule will help for long either, these last years we see the FIA change rule after rule for teams to find a way around it.
who says they will not find something else during the summer break?
i know, all teams try to find the grey areas in the rulebook but maybe thats the one thing that really has to change?
i don't know, guess thats why they call it a circus..

Ah, but you can't know if it wasn't the mapping that made Vettel as competitive as he was. In other words, it certainly made his car faster, so it is possible that he shouldn't have been #2/3 in the first place.

[Rob]

That's what I figured. Thanks mate.

Will hurt RB, obviously, at least short term.

If it is done in time for this weekend, for sure it will hurt them. as this is Monaco without the barriers.So what they are doing will help them alot out of the slow mid speed corners. As we saw in Valencia. Really do hope they ban it before weekend.

Come on FIA

[Tifoso]

If it is done in time for this weekend, for sure it will hurt them. as this is Monaco without the barriers.So what they are doing will help them alot out of the slow mid speed corners. As we saw in Valencia. Really do hope they ban it before weekend.

Come on FIA

If they are going to do it, I would be floored if it wasn't imposed before Hungary. The FIA knows, and more importantly, now knows that we all (fans/other teams) know. They have to do it.