2013 Malaysian GP: Race Thread

[shamim179]

We have seen in the past when the team are in contention for a win but with more risk associated with it they go for that option rather than going for the safer option and coming 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. We take too much risk at times and once again today's race has exposed this.

Unfortunate outcome but the team were too slow to react given the situation. Question is whether it was Alonso's call to stay out longer? If it was when the team wanted him to pit then he is to blame.

[varun]

cmon, stop it, lets move on, it was done already. and they knew everyting what u all guys said, but they find some ideas that u all guys cannot find. sometimes it was worked, sometimes not. clearly damage? yes you can see clearly the damage, but from the data for team , and on the car fernando said he still can drove it. its their decision.

maybe when fernando came to pit as you wish guys, and then he dropped to back because changing the nose, then dropped far away because he changed to slicks, you guys will bashing him too, why pit earlier? blablabla... what do you all wants exactly? all race win 1-2 ? oh cmon.

take the positive side.

+1

[NanoTheQuickest]

If was not for Ferrari and its family I think I would stop carrying about F1 after what went on today.

This GP has truly disgusted me as a matter of fact. F1 has to go through a major cleansing in my opinion. Let's stop making a team sport and have 20-22 teams on the grid running a one man show. (I know this is completely unrealistic but it would sort a lot of this mess out)

[Hornet]

No way i think.Car is not good as seen in Australia.

Who's car, Ferrari?

In Australia, we finished 2nd and 4th. Alonso ahead of Vettel.

In Malaysia, we qualified 2nd and 3rd. Race was partially wet which screwed things up for us, but Ferrari was confident that they would be strong in dry.

Seems like we have a fast car this year.

[scuderiafan]

Alonso nudged Sebastian Vettel's Red Bull at Turn 2 on the opening lap, damaging the Ferrari's front wing.
The team left Alonso out, waiting for the chance to change to dry tyres, but the wing failed completely at the start of lap two, putting the Spaniard out.
"Today we had a good car and I don't think we were too far from Red Bull pace in the race," said Alonso when asked by AUTOSPORT how competitive his race could have been.
"They didn't have all the aces this weekend. No one was especially quick, so I think we could really have fought for the win.
"We are still missing some pace, but we have three weeks now to work and bring some new parts. Everyone will do it, but hopefully we can taker a bigger step than the others."

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/f...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

This makes it hurt even more, but it is encouraging. China, let's get the first win of the year.

[sagi58]

...But WE getting shocked or offensed by teams orders sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, doesn't it?

Have to agree with Greig, we're not "shocked" at team orders; but, damn it sure is lovely to see them admitting they're using them!
It is intriguing that both teams have resorted to team orders, this early in the season when (as so many here insist) it really "shoudn't" matter!

[Sianellen]

The top 4 seemed pretty much decided from the start of the race. No one made a massive amount of progress or moved up through pit stops to the front after that. Kimi while his pace was quick (on the live timing) seemed to be in the same position most of the race stuck in around 9th place. Once the cars were set in the blocks they were in i.e Grosjean/Massa/Hulk/kimi for 6th/7th/8th/9th (5th after Jenson dropped out) there didn't appear to be much progress through the field from anyone, just swapping around in these various blocks. I think if you had something to put you on the back foot then you got stuck. It would have been interesting to see if Fernando (had he made those 2 stops) would have been able to progress much through the field.

[wisepie]

I have no problem with what Vettel did but he can stick his rubbish apology where the sun don't shine. If you're going to do that sort of thing on track then stick with your convictions off track as well.

Massa was really poor today, I don't see why he should get a pass because he showed pace in the final stint. He was on the pace of the turd of a McLaren for 3/4 of the race... As for Alonso, I have no words for him being that over zealous in only the 2nd turn of the race. I can understand the gamble the team took by keeping him out but a better gamble would have been to pit and go onto slicks immediately. He would at least have had a chance.

Anyway, nightmare weekend for the team.

Agree with most of what you say, 2183, but I don't accept that Massa was 'really poor' today, he was hampered by a poor start, being boxed in behind ALO/VET prang, then swallowed by traffic, but he kept it all together and at least managed to retrieve his 5th after the last stop, couldn't really expect any more given our apparent lack of pace. Maybe his set-up wasn't ideal but at least we got one car home in one piece.

[Klutch]

I too feel positive about Ferrari, but that Red Bull Racing F1 Team (aka Soda Water) have one of the best car for 5 years in row.
Hard to even watch F1 after all these years.

P.S. And some negative statistic. After first 2 races of 2012 Alonso had 35 points, now only 50% of that number.
But worst races of last season (excluding Japan and Belgium) were Bahrain and China so statistic (43 pts after 4 races in 2012) can get better.

[shamim179]

It's also important to keep racing even if you cannot get many points. The data is still very useful to the team better than a testing session even because it is in race conditions. Melbourne was not a typical F1 track so data here would have been very useful for the team. I hope we didn't bring anything here to validate the introduction of some parts for China. Insufficient data from today's race may or may not cause us problems. Nothing to be overly negative about but not very positive as it stands.

Here's hoping that we have a better result in China but I fear that others will make a step forward and it will be more difficult to beat them. This was a missed opportunity to build a lead in both championships.

[Sha1]

We have seen in the past when the team are in contention for a win but with more risk associated with it they go for that option rather than going for the safer option and coming 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. We take too much risk at times and once again today's race has exposed this.

Unfortunate outcome but the team were too slow to react given the situation. Question is whether it was Alonso's call to stay out longer? If it was when the team wanted him to pit then he is to blame.

Agreed - I had a bad feeling about the starting positions going into the race. Second and third seem to be bad luck for Felipe and Fernando. Something always ends up happening, like in Canada a little while back.

I have to say this was a very bad race. No idea what the team or Fernando were thinking. In a season where avoiding mistakes is looking to be even more crucial with the pack so closed up, the team have already made a very big one. This really hurts.

[sagi58]

Just a question: under which conditions race control is allowed to order a car to pit?...

That's a good question and I'm sure someone here will have an answer before I can google it, if not, I'll post what I find!

I wanted to mention that I worried about that wing causing an accident and not only to Alonso, but also to other drivers.
We've seen before what happens when bits and pieces/cars become airborne (e.g. Alonso at Belgium GP 2012)!

Some risks are just unnecessary!

[Greig]

Black and orange flag will be shown to a driver with unsafe mechanic damage, and they must return to the pits.

[SS454]

Ferrari and Alonso made the right call to stay out with the damaged wing. The pace wasn't that bad considering, the wing didn't appear to be getting worse, and the pit window for slicks was some 3 laps away. It was impossible to predict the wing would collapse under the nose. My problem is why did the wing get so damaged from a tiny little nudge. That's a concern for me.

Massa wasn't amazing, but no complaints either. I'd say 5th was about all he could have done today, especially after the way his start went. I think the Mercedes were as strong as the Ferrari was in race conditions today.

I give Webber huge props for not punching Vettel in the face. Like mentioned early, it was basically a sucker punch from Vettel the move he pulled on Webber. I love interteam battles and close racing, but there is a reason they are in place.

I think Mercedes was wrong in protecting Hamilton. Hamilton used too much fuel, that's his problem. Rosberg ran the better race and should have been allowed to go P3, and it would have been a pass with very little risk.

[sagi58]

Black and orange flag will be shown to a driver with unsafe mechanic damage, and they must return to the pits.

Thanks, Greig; but, I wanted to know "when" or possibly "how" the F.I.A. decides a care has "unsafe mechanical damage"?

[Greig]

Thanks, Greig; but, I wanted to know "when" or possibly "how" the F.I.A. decides a care has "unsafe mechanical damage"?

Well like wings hanging on by a thread, bodywork flapping around etc that if comes off can cause danger to the drivers or marshalls, fans.

[Hermann]

Just imagine Fernando saying 'Massa is too slow, get him out of the way' into the radio like fingerboy said about Webber today. He would be slaughtered in the forums and by the press as well. A shame that RB just gets away with literally everything.

[Sianellen]

Just imagine Fernando saying 'Massa is too slow, get him out of the way' into the radio like fingerboy said about Webber today. He would be slaughtered in the forums and by the press as well. A shame that RB just gets away with literally everything.

He did, in 2010, in Germany.

[Senna4Ever]

take the positive side.

and this is?
Malaysia was set as point of prove where we stand - and this seems not to be very upfront.
Maybe you can point out what kind of positive things we can take with us? I like to be optimistic but somehow I don't feel that way:
Australia: not impressive qualifying result but good at race where no one knew what happens about tires
Malaysia: better qualifying result but maybe considered to the weather conditions (but RB a second ahead) and the remaining Ferrari big gap behind the winners.

@Greig: Thank you for answering how race control can manage it but on which basis they can make this decision? What needs to be damaged that the car has to go to the pit?
I remember that there was such an event but don't know which one an when. Would it also be possible that other teams can force the race control to do so? The reason why I'm asking is that I don't think that we would have come far as race control would have acted on us before. Might be wrong but after all the disputable decisions race control did all through the last years ... Not a wrong impression, or?

It seems that RB are really unbreakable light weight tanks ... last year in Brazil, today where it seems that the accident didn't affect Vettel's car in any case. Even the turn was wet and the turn was hanging/falling from left to right Vettel didn't spin off after Alonso put his nose beyond the diffuser. And the punch was enough to split the nose which looks not really fragile. Seems that this RB is connected to the ground like at a slot car racing track.

@Alonso too impatient
Can it be that Alonso was more in thoughts to block Webber as to attack Vettel in turn 2 and than noticed to late that Vettel got very slow so he crashed with Vettel.

[Klutch]

He did, in 2010, in Germany.

He said "I am much quicker than Felipe".
Big difference from "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way" to me.

[Sha1]

Ferrari and Alonso made the right call to stay out with the damaged wing. The pace wasn't that bad considering, the wing didn't appear to be getting worse, and the pit window for slicks was some 3 laps away. It was impossible to predict the wing would collapse under the nose. My problem is why did the wing get so damaged from a tiny little nudge. That's a concern for me.

Massa wasn't amazing, but no complaints either. I'd say 5th was about all he could have done today, especially after the way his start went. I think the Mercedes were as strong as the Ferrari was in race conditions today.

I give Webber huge props for not punching Vettel in the face. Like mentioned early, it was basically a sucker punch from Vettel the move he pulled on Webber. I love interteam battles and close racing, but there is a reason they are in place.

I think Mercedes was wrong in protecting Hamilton. Hamilton used too much fuel, that's his problem. Rosberg ran the better race and should have been allowed to go P3, and it would have been a pass with very little risk.

No, clearly they didn't. Staying out with a broken front wing is a pretty stupid thing to do. Disappointing performance from Alonso.

[Greig]

@Greig: Thank you for answering how race control can manage it but on which basis they can make this decision? What needs to be damaged that the car has to go to the pit?
I remember that there was such an event but don't know which one an when. Would it also be possible that other teams can force the race control to do so? The reason why I'm asking is that I don't think that we would have come far as race control would have acted on us before. Might be wrong but after all the disputable decisions race control did all through the last years ... Not a wrong impression, or?

I have no idea how they base the decision, probably just on common sense, can't really recall anyone being shown the flag but remember lots of complaints that Kimi should have been shown it at France 08 when his exhaust was hanging on (but maybe Ferrari showed them it would not fall off).

[Ferrari2183]

I don't know. I see a lot of people making excuses for Massa. I'm sorry but I don't tolerate mediocrity.

Point is. There is always something hindering him... Today it was the inters and the options on a drying track. He was perfectly happy with the inters yesterday when he stuck the car on the front row. Today, he had the perfect opportunity to stamp his authority on the inter team battle after Alonso's mistake but noooooo. He folds.

[sagi58]

Well like wings hanging on by a thread, bodywork flapping around etc that if comes off can cause danger to the drivers or marshalls, fans.

I don't mean to pester you; but, is there some kind of "official" ruling or list, somewhere? Or is a "subjective" race-by-race type of decision?
And, in this case, do you think it was just a matter of things happening so fast, they didn't have time to react or make a judgement?

p.s. maybe these could be my "dumb questions of the day"??

[Ferrari2183]

and this is?
Malaysia was set as point of prove where we stand - and this seems not to be very upfront.
Maybe you can point out what kind of positive things we can take with us? I like to be optimistic but somehow I don't feel that way:
Australia: not impressive qualifying result but good at race where no one knew what happens about tires
Malaysia: better qualifying result but maybe considered to the weather conditions (but RB a second ahead) and the remaining Ferrari big gap behind the winners.

@Greig: Thank you for answering how race control can manage it but on which basis they can make this decision? What needs to be damaged that the car has to go to the pit?
I remember that there was such an event but don't know which one an when. Would it also be possible that other teams can force the race control to do so? The reason why I'm asking is that I don't think that we would have come far as race control would have acted on us before. Might be wrong but after all the disputable decisions race control did all through the last years ... Not a wrong impression, or?

It seems that RB are really unbreakable light weight tanks ... last year in Brazil, today where it seems that the accident didn't affect Vettel's car in any case. Even the turn was wet and the turn was hanging/falling from left to right Vettel didn't spin off after Alonso put his nose beyond the diffuser. And the punch was enough to split the nose which looks not really fragile. Seems that this RB is connected to the ground like at a slot car racing track.

@Alonso too impatient
Can it be that Alonso was more in thoughts to block Webber as to attack Vettel in turn 2 and than noticed to late that Vettel got very slow so he crashed with Vettel.

From what I saw it just looked like Alonso had way more confidence than the other drivers in those conditions. He should have been more careful though.

[FFFerrari]

Would be interesting to hear the radio conversations between Fernando and the pit lane during the first lap. I wonder if we are ever going to hear that stuff.

All in all a very bad weekend from us. Felipe was decent and showing where the car currently stands (about 3rd fastest on dry conditions) and Fernando... well he will have a long 3 weeks.

[Senna4Ever]

can't really recall anyone being shown the flag

thank you again for replying:
you're right it wasn't because of the race control because the team reacted and therefore the race control wasn't used for intervention. Maybe HRT was called by the team to pit because of a damage?

[Sianellen]

He said "I am much quicker than Felipe".
Big difference from "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way" to me.

My mistake.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I don't know. I see a lot of people making excuses for Massa. I'm sorry but I don't tolerate mediocrity.

Point is. There is always something hindering him... Today it was the inters and the options on a drying track. He was perfectly happy with the inters yesterday when he stuck the car on the front row. Today, he had the perfect opportunity to stamp his authority on the inter team battle after Alonso's mistake but noooooo. He folds.

Felipe didn't tear his wing off by running into another car and brought the car home fifth. So shouldn't you be running down Alonso instead for folding?

[NasI]

IMO, Massa losing places wasn't because of his poor start, but our new car for some reason just doesn't have the pace in these conditions. Even Massimo have said, we will be strong if it's dry, but Vettel will be untouchable if it rain. So Ferrari is aware of the lack of pace in these conditions.

There wasn't any point for Massa to fight Alonso harder and risk an accident. Had our car had the pace, I think Massa would have held on to 3rd. Looking forward to the next dry race. We should be fine as long as our dry pace is great.

Masa did what he always do the best. He only race Alonso and not the others. As I said before shame on Masa. Alonso was fighting not only with Vetel but and with Masa and this distracted him.