2013 Malaysian GP: Race Thread

[SS454]

No, clearly they didn't. Staying out with a broken front wing is a pretty stupid thing to do. Disappointing performance from Alonso.

He dropped like 2.5 seconds to Vettel with a broken wing. People have stayed out with broken wings before. Had they pitted and ran out of the points you would say that was the wrong call. Had the wing not broken off he'd have been battling somewhere deep inside the top 10. There was no reason to believe the wing would suddenly let go like that, it just is what it is. I still support Ferrari's decision.

[REDARMYSOJA]

can't really recall anyone being shown .

The only thing I can recall about someone running afoul of the rule was Vettel getting fined for trying to continue on after crashing with Kubica (at Oz GP I think) The fine was for not getting a dangerous car off track and trying to continue on, but I think it was the last lap and there wasn't time to give him the orange/black flag, and I don't think he made it very far anyway.

[sagi58]

Felipe didn't tear his wing off by running into another car and brought the car home fifth. So shouldn't you be running down Alonso instead for folding?

You make it sound like Alonso went looking for a DNF and I know that's not what you mean!
However, keep in mind that Massa did start from the front row and he didn't have to deal with a wing being torn off!
Luckily for Massa, he was able to recuperate some points by finishing 5th, after falling down to 10th at one point!
Unfortunately for Alonso, he wasn't able to salvage his race!

[Suzie]

If Mark had done what Seb did today, I do wonder if people would have thought 'good on him'.
I also wonder what the reaction here would be if this happened at Ferrari between Felipe and Fernando - 'Felipe was impeding Fernando, he's the best bet for the WDC and it's better that he wins', perhaps?

Anyways, not the best of races and aside from Nando's win last year Malaysia never seems to be the best for us. Thinking about the time we didn't get past Q1 or the time Kimi went out on wets needlessly. A uncharacteristically average start from Felipe and the pitstops weren't the best the team's ever done as well. As for Fernando... these things happen and I doubt he will make that mistake again. I do wonder if he was perhaps being a bit over-zealous to get past cars and into the lead this morning after Felipe outqualified him but who knows.

Annoyed we've a 3 week instead of 2 week wait as well

[stefa]

Black and orange flag will be shown to a driver with unsafe mechanic damage, and they must return to the pits.

Exactly! That was also a concern staying out with a car with broken part.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Masa did what he always do the best. He only race Alonso and not the others. As I said before shame on Masa. Alonso was fighting not only with Vetel but and with Masa and this distracted him.

Oh, what a load of tripe.

[Suzie]

Yes, shame on 'Masa'.

Whomever he may be.

[stefa]

21 days till next race....

[Sha1]

He dropped like 2.5 seconds to Vettel with a broken wing. People have stayed out with broken wings before. Had they pitted and ran out of the points you would say that was the wrong call. Had the wing not broken off he'd have been battling somewhere deep inside the top 10. There was no reason to believe the wing would suddenly let go like that, it just is what it is. I still support Ferrari's decision.

You're kidding right? The wing was practically at a 45 degree angle. I would not have said that bringing him in was the wrong call, it was the only move I was expecting.

I can't count how many times I've seen front wings snap off and go under the front tires, often times with even less damage than what we saw today.

[REDARMYSOJA]

You make it sound like Alonso went looking for a DNF and I know that's not what you mean!
However, keep in mind that Massa did start from the front row and he didn't have to deal with a wing being torn off!
Luckily for Massa, he was able to recuperate some points by finishing 5th, after falling down to 10th at one point!
Unfortunately for Alonso, he wasn't able to salvage his race!

I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is to bash on Felipe when he salvaged some good points. And Massa DID have to deal with letting his teammate in and not crashing them both out. He did that well but lost quite a few spots as a results. He did well to fight it back to 5th and doesn't deserve grief for it.

[Senna4Ever]

If Mark had done what Seb did today, I do wonder if people would have thought 'good on him'.
I also wonder what the reaction here would be if this happened at Ferrari between Felipe and Fernando - 'Felipe was impeding Fernando, he's the best bet for the WDC and it's better that he wins', perhaps?

Of course that the guys in F1 are not there to gather friends, but I think some of them still know what a word between men counts ... But maybe I'm wrong ...

[sagi58]

If Mark had done what Seb did today, I do wonder if people would have thought 'good on him'.
I also wonder what the reaction here would be if this happened at Ferrari between Felipe and Fernando - 'Felipe was impeding Fernando, he's the best bet for the WDC and it's better that he wins', perhaps?

I would suggest to you, that most Ferrari fans would be pleased if Webber had the opportunity because he would be
taking points away from Vettel who is, for all intents and purposes, Alonso's biggest obstacle to that third WDC!

And yes, many of us, me included, would be be upset if Massa tries to take points away from Alonso because Alonso
is our best bet for the driver's title.

Having said that, I'm happy Massa was able to pick up those 10 points for the WCC! Shame it wasn't more!

[Rob]

Masa did what he always do the best. He only race Alonso and not the others. As I said before shame on Masa. Alonso was fighting not only with Vetel but and with Masa and this distracted him.

[sagi58]

I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is to bash on Felipe when he salvaged some good points. And Massa DID have to deal with letting his teammate in and not crashing them both out. He did that well but lost quite a few spots as a results. He did well to fight it back to 5th and doesn't deserve grief for it.

So... this time it was Alonso's fault that Massa's race was compromised? Sheez, that Alonso, eh? Always causing problems!!
((the previous comment is completely sarcastic!!))


Personally, I would be MORE impressed with his 5th place finish if he had to fight up to it because he started lower on the grid.

[Hermann]

You might laugh, but there is some truth in that. The first goal of every driver must be to beat his teammate, i remember Fernando saying that in an interview, and i think its true for every f1 driver. So far Massa did not have many opportunities to do so, and i would not be surprised if that was his number one goal for now.

[Greig]

Personally, I would be MORE impressed with his 5th place finish if he had to fight up to it because he started lower on the grid.

Ermmmm so now Massa needs to qualify worse to impress you? Strange way of looking at things.

[Ferrari2183]

Felipe didn't tear his wing off by running into another car and brought the car home fifth. So shouldn't you be running down Alonso instead for folding?

I have already stated my disappointment at Alonso's incident and the teams failure to box him and immediately send him out on slicks but even so I can't begrudge Alonso for what happened there. He was simply faster (looked like he had more confidence early on in the wet and got caught out) but should have been more careful.

As for Massa, he had no pace for 3/4 of the race and I do begrudge that... He made no impression on the race so much so that Hulkenberg opened up a 5 second gap over him in the first stint. He was a pit stop down on the leaders in no time too. Losing in excess of a second a lap... Just an awful performance apart from the final stint. Are people really going to suggest to me that the Ferrari is as fast as the current Mclaren in the dry?

Massa is no benchmark for the pace of the car and he just cannot sustain a championship battle. The sooner Ferrari tell him that he is number 2 the better. Or he can leave. There is no shortage of promising young drivers around who would happily fulfil that role while still being able to produce better, more consistent performances than what I saw today.

[Sha1]

I have already stated my disappointment at Alonso's incident and the teams failure to box him and immediately send him out on slicks but even so I can't begrudge Alonso for what happened there. He was simply faster (looked like he had more confidence early on in the wet and got caught out) but should have been more careful.

As for Massa, he had no pace for 3/4 of the race and I do begrudge that... He made no impression on the race so much so that Hulkenberg opened up a 5 second gap over him in the first stint. He was a pit stop down on the leaders in no time too. Losing in excess of a second a lap... Just an awful performance apart from the final stint. Are people really going to suggest to me that the Ferrari is as fast as the current Mclaren in the dry?

Massa is no benchmark for the pace of the car and he just cannot sustain a championship battle. The sooner Ferrari tell him that he is number 2 the better. Or he can leave. There is no shortage of promising young drivers around who would happily fulfil that role while still being able to produce better, more consistent performances than what I saw today.

Why is this even being discussed? So who's the benchmark? His teammate who's been outqualified and outscored in the last two races?

[Rob]

You might laugh, but there is some truth in that. The first goal of every driver must be to beat his teammate, i remember Fernando saying that in an interview, and i think its true for every f1 driver. So far Massa did not have many opportunities to do so, and i would not be surprised if that was his number one goal for now.

So you think his main goal is to race Fernando? So he was slow today and couldnt be bothered to speed up as he was unable to race his team mate? Thats funny. He races for the team, he is 1 of the biggest team players on the grid. He will race RBR, Mclaren etc etc to take points of them and beat them.

[Alonsomaniac]

Why is this even being discussed? So who's the benchmark? His teammate who's been outqualified and outscored in the last two races?

Four. The last four races...

[Greig]

I have already stated my disappointment at Alonso's incident and the teams failure to box him and immediately send him out on slicks but even so I can't begrudge Alonso for what happened there. He was simply faster (looked like he had more confidence early on in the wet and got caught out) but should have been more careful.

As for Massa, he had no pace for 3/4 of the race and I do begrudge that... He made no impression on the race so much so that Hulkenberg opened up a 5 second gap over him in the first stint. He was a pit stop down on the leaders in no time too. Losing in excess of a second a lap... Just an awful performance apart from the final stint. Are people really going to suggest to me that the Ferrari is as fast as the current Mclaren in the dry?

Massa is no benchmark for the pace of the car and he just cannot sustain a championship battle. The sooner Ferrari tell him that he is number 2 the better. Or he can leave. There is no shortage of promising young drivers around who would happily fulfil that role while still being able to produce better, more consistent performances than what I saw today.

You have no idea of what pace Alonso would have been doing, so you are just assuming for whatever reason just to have a go at Massa, which is again strange.

[Alonsomaniac]

Masa did what he always do the best. He only race Alonso and not the others. As I said before shame on Masa. Alonso was fighting not only with Vetel but and with Masa and this distracted him.

So.....Fernando´s mistake was Felipe´s fault? Wow!

[Ferrari2183]

Why is this even being discussed? So who's the benchmark? His teammate who's been outqualified and outscored in the last two races?

Yes, the driver who in 2 of last 3 years took the title down to the wire while his teammate was in Timbuktu. All I read recently is Massa out qualifying Alonso. Well boo hoo, pity championships are not won on qualifying performances. He scores about half the points Alonso does in a year.

And just to make my point even clearer... Massa has now finished 2 races as opposed to Alonso's 1 and he leads by the mammoth, insurmountable amount of 4 points.

I clearly seem to have higher hopes for Ferrari than some here.

[Klutch]

Four. The last four races...

He wasn't outscored in 4 races. More true would be Fernando outscored Felipe in every race he finished (since mid 2010).

[Alonsomaniac]

And still I think the team and Fernando made the right decision.
At that time it seemed the right thing to do and it was the right thing to do. Only the wing disagreed.....

[shamim179]

If Massa is the better qualifier and Alonso the better racer, we will keep running into this situation. I don't think any other team has such a contrast in their driver abilities. What is Ferrari going to do about this? Massa is shining more this year because the car is easier to drive. If Massa keeps on qualifying well, he will in effect become a competitor that Alonso needs to deal with. And this is new territory for the team. Yes, we can recall Germany 2010 but that was different. It was during a race situation whereas this was in qualifying. Unfortunately, for the team it won't be easy to manage this. Even if Massa keeps on letting Alonso past during the start, Alonso is starting further behind Massa and won't do as well as if we were in Massa's position and Massa's race start would get compromised. Not an ideal situation to have it keeps happening!

I'm not saying it is Massa's or Alonso's fault for the way they perform in qualifying. I think the team should just let things be as they actually are and not artificially tamper with the positions. Giving way to Alonso at the start is not necessarily a good idea. A lot can go wrong and for a driver to anticipate something that is unnatural is very hard to do. Even, if you have discussions beforehand where Massa has agreed to go to the left at the start but come to the start he goes to the right.

A lot of inter-team battles today. All these drivers are very selfish no question about that! Many of them think that the championship is up for grabs with so many teams so close to each other in terms of performance. I think it's going to be a crazy year!

[Alonsomaniac]

He wasn't outscored in 4 races. More true would be Fernando outscored Felipe in every race he finished (since mid 2010).

True. I overlooked the word "outscored". Massa outqualified Fernando the last four races.

[Ferrari2183]

You have no idea of what pace Alonso would have been doing, so you are just assuming for whatever reason just to have a go at Massa, which is again strange.

No I don't know what pace Alonso could have run at but based on passed performances probably a whole lot faster. He himself believes he would have been having it out with the bulls.

In any event, Alonso's theoretical pace is not being discussed here but rather Massa's, not even worthy of a midfield teams, pace.

As I said earlier, are you guys seriously suggesting that the Ferrari is as fast as the turd of a Mclaren in the dry?

[Greig]

No I don't know what pace Alonso could have run at but based on passed performances probably a whole lot faster. He himself believes he would have been having it out with the bulls.

In any event, Alonso's theoretical pace is not being discussed here but rather Massa's, not even worthy of a midfield teams, pace.

As I said earlier, are you guys seriously suggesting that the Ferrari is as fast as the turd of a Mclaren in the dry?

Why is the McLaren a turd? cause you say so?

[Sha1]

Yes, the driver who in 2 of last 3 years took the title down to the wire while his teammate was in Timbuktu. All I read recently is Massa out qualifying Alonso. Well boo hoo, pity championships are not won on qualifying performances. He scores about half the points Alonso does in a year.

And just to make my point even clearer... Massa has now finished 2 races as opposed to Alonso's 1 and he leads by the mammoth, insurmountable amount of 4 points.

I clearly seem to have higher hopes for Ferrari than some here.

You mentioned Felipe not being a good benchmark. I then asked you a very valid question, to which you still haven't provided a valid answer. The last two or three years have nothing to do with this year.

Four points difference or 400, he's still leading.