2013 Malaysian GP: Race Thread

[Massimo]

In a different way Hamilton was just as bad as Vettel, why did he not wave his team mate (Rosberg) through. Rosberg was clearly the faster car, but Hamilton was quite happy for Rosberg to complain to the team on team radio, how he was clearly faster car, and should be let through. Then Hamilton looked guilty on the podium, trying to be clever by saying my team mate deserved to be on the podium, and trying to look sad. Normally this situation happens later in the season, not the 2nd race of the season.

I don't agree, if Hamilton would've waved Rosberg through he would've also ignored a team order, Brawn made it very clear he wanted the cars to finish in those positions, whatever the reason was for that, i don't care, the point is the team principal is calling the shots, not the drivers.
I think Hamilton was sincerely uncomfortable with the whole situation, Rosberg is a well educated young man, not losing his temper, but telling the team afterwards to "remember this", that to me is a sign of confidence.
The instinctive racer Hamilton has a real battle on his hands with the more intelligent Rosberg.

[sagi58]

...The instinctive racer Hamilton has a real battle on his hands with the more intelligent Rosberg.

I've said that before and oftentimes people tease me about my lack of knowledge/understanding of F1.
At the end of the day, without some "smarts" what is the point of having the "guts"? And, vice versa for that matter!
This is why Alonso is considered the "best" all around driver, he has both!!

p.s. dumb question of the day: do the drivers hear each others conversations on the team radio?

[Massimo]

I've said that before and oftentimes people tease me about my lack of knowledge/understanding of F1.
At the end of the day, without some "smarts" what is the point of having the "guts"? And, vice versa for that matter!
This is why Alonso is considered the "best" all around driver, he has both!!

p.s. dumb question of the day: do the drivers hear each others conversations on the team radio?

I don't think so, race engineer can talk to his or her driver, team principal can talk to both, but i don't think they can hear each other.

[Tobes]

The instinctive racer Hamilton has a real battle on his hands with the more intelligent Rosberg.

I'd agree with this, except I fear Hamilton has a slighty better contract than Rosberg, don't think he has outright #1 status in the team, but to get him in the Merc i'm guessing he was offered preferential treatment...

[giodap]

In a different way Hamilton was just as bad as Vettel, why did he not wave his team mate (Rosberg) through. Rosberg was clearly the faster car, but Hamilton was quite happy for Rosberg to complain to the team on team radio, how he was clearly faster car, and should be let through. Then Hamilton looked guilty on the podium, trying to be clever by saying my team mate deserved to be on the podium, and trying to look sad. Normally this situation happens later in the season, not the 2nd race of the season.

Mirafiori you clearly dont understand how f1 works. You cannot expect drivers to start waving other drivers through

[Tobes]

Mirafiori you clearly dont understand how f1 works. You cannot expect drivers to start waving other drivers through

Unless it's the last race of the season, the drivers final ever race, and his fellow countryman can win the WDC...!

[Greig]

Unless it's the last race of the season, the drivers final ever race, and his fellow countryman can win the WDC...!

[mirafiori]

I don't agree, if Hamilton would've waved Rosberg through he would've also ignored a team order, Brawn made it very clear he wanted the cars to finish in those positions, whatever the reason was for that, i don't care, the point is the team principal is calling the shots, not the drivers.
I think Hamilton was sincerely uncomfortable with the whole situation, Rosberg is a well educated young man, not losing his temper, but telling the team afterwards to "remember this", that to me is a sign of confidence.
The instinctive racer Hamilton has a real battle on his hands with the more intelligent Rosberg.

My point is Hamilton made no effort to the team to let his team mate through, Rosberg was clearly the fastest car, Hamilton could of said on team radio Rosberg is faster than me, iam low on fuel shall i let my team mate through, as it is only the second race of the season, if it was the other way round do you think Hamilton would of just followed him home. And if you think Ross Brawn is the team principal you can think again, Hamilton has a contract stating he is number one thats why Rosberg stayed behind.

[Massimo]

I'd agree with this, except I fear Hamilton has a slighty better contract than Rosberg, don't think he has outright #1 status in the team, but to get him in the Merc i'm guessing he was offered preferential treatment...

You think so, in what way?
I always thought $100million was more than enough reason

[sagi58]

My point is Hamilton made no effort to the team to let his team mate through, Rosberg was clearly the fastest car, Hamilton could of said on team radio Rosberg is faster than me, iam low on fuel shall i let my team mate through, as it is only the second race of the season, if it was the other way round do you think Hamilton would of just followed him home. And if you think Ross Brawn is the team principal you can think again, Hamilton has a contract stating he is number one thats why Rosberg stayed behind.

I think you're right on this one! Of course, we may not be privvy to what goes on behind closed doors, at any team;
but, we'll be watching the rest of the season to see just what is going on at Mercedes, too!

[sagi58]

...I always thought $100million was more than enough reason

I can just hear Hamilton paraphrasing: Mercedes, Mercedes, how do I love thee, let me count the ways... to the banki!!!

[Greig]

Would Lewis accept a team order to stay behind? - http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31594

He has done so, as I already said.

[sagi58]

Would Lewis accept a team order to stay behind? - http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31594

He has done so, as I already said.

With all due respect, Greig, that was in 2007... an ill-fated season with more ups and downs than a roller coaster, at McLaren!
Since then, Hamilton has become WDC, he has dropped his father as his agent, dropped Ron Dennis as his surrogate father,
has been involved in a number of controversial situations (SpyGate / LieGate), has questioned the powers that be, made a
number of accusations to rationalize his own behaviour, moved out and beyond the comforts of his family home and his adopted
family at McLaren, found himself an older woman, is considering opening up a museum in honour of himself, and with Alonso and
Vettel on form, he is facing the very real possibility that he may not win another WDC.

Why do I mention all of the above? Because this is not the same Hamilton 2007 version. Would he disobey team orders today?
Maybe not directly, possibly not intentionally; but, then again, isn't that what Vettel told us, after the race?

[mirafiori]

I think you're right on this one! Of course, we may not be privvy to what goes on behind closed doors, at any team;
but, we'll be watching the rest of the season to see just what is going on at Mercedes, too!

Cheers sagi58, and we will be watching the rest of the season, what would be interesting if by some fluke Rosberg missed the WDC by a 3 points.

[Greig]

Why do I mention all of the above? Because this is not the same Hamilton 2007 version. Would he disobey team orders today?
Maybe not directly, possibly not intentionally; but, then again, isn't that what Vettel told us, after the race?

I have no idea if he would ignore them or not, you would have to ask him. All I said was that he obeyed them in the past.

[sagi58]

Yup... I realized that! I was just wondering, out loud, if he'd do so "today"!

[sagi58]

Cheers sagi58, and we will be watching the rest of the season, what would be interesting if by some fluke Rosberg missed the WDC by a 3 points.

Hopefully, the only one missing it out by WDC should be Vettel!!
To Alonso!!

[Massimo]

Let's quote George Orwell on this one.
The Sporting Spirit:"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war minus the shooting".

[sagi58]

[wisepie]

Let's quote George Orwell on this one.
The Sporting Spirit:"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war minus the shooting".

Classic Massimo! Very good summary of what we should expect from RBR and Merc in order to screw up the rest of their season. Avanti!

[Rob]

Unless it's the last race of the season, the drivers final ever race, and his fellow countryman can win the WDC...!

[Greig]

Hopefully, the only one missing it out by WDC should be Vettel!!
To Alonso!!

What if Lewis wins the title by 3 points afterall every point counts you keep saying, and you decided Ferrari should back Alonso from race 1 so why should Mercedes not do the same with Lewis?

[sagi58]

What if Lewis wins the title by 3 points afterall every point counts you keep saying, and you decided Ferrari should back Alonso from race 1 so why should Mercedes not do the same with Lewis?

Personally, I could care less who Mercedes decides to back, from the beginning of the season!
Having said that, if Hamilton is their choice, then I sincerely hope they can be honest with Rosberg!

[Greig]

Personally, I could care less who Mercedes decides to back, from the beginning of the season!
Having said that, if Hamilton is their choice, then I sincerely hope they can be honest with Rosberg!

I think Nico got the message

[sagi58]

I think Nico got the message

I believe it was "Nico, you are faster than Hamilton, do you understand?"

[Hermann]

I believe it was "Nico, you are faster than Hamilton, do you understand?"

I think its time to change the nr. 1 quote to 'he is too slow, get him out of the way'.

[killer]

Personally, I could care less who Mercedes decides to back, from the beginning of the season!
Having said that, if Hamilton is their choice, then I sincerely hope they can be honest with Rosberg!

This begs an important question: assuming a choice is made at the onset, can a team be truly honest with driver B when they have chosen to back driver A for the WDC?

[mirafiori]

During the race i was impressed with Red Bulls pit stops,i have just found out Webbers stop was 2.05 world record, and both Webber and Vettel had a 2.13, all together they broke the record 5 times in that race, previously held by Button 2.31 set last year in Germany. In a sporting sense with gritted teeth, i can only say to Red Bull fair play and well done. Not easy doing this post, but sometimes you have to give credit if deserved.

[Meiga]

Would Lewis accept a team order to stay behind? - http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31594

He has done so, as I already said.

Hold on one second, Greig; let's have a look at what Dennis said about team orders, shall we?
"I am not perfect. The British press jumped on me, attacked me.
"It was difficult. I had to think about what was best for the team. What was put about in the media did affect our relationship. But we are trying to improve that.
"He absolutely deserved to win in Monaco. He drove one of the best races that I have even seen."
http://www.duemotori.com/news/f1/159...ndo_Alonso.php

And now, let's see what was reported a few years later:
"This has never come out before, but it was Dennis's actions after that race that so angered Alonso, and which convinced him the team would always be behind Hamilton and not him. That was the backdrop to the tumultuous fall-out that enveloped McLaren and Alonso as that famous 'spy-gate' summer unfolded.
As a McLaren insider revealed to me: "Fernando won in Monaco fair and square in 2007.
"Lewis was generally quicker through the weekend, but in qualifying Fernando did it and Lewis didn't. Lewis was quicker in the first run but then he made mistakes and Fernando got pole.
"Fernando won the race because he pulled an 11-second gap in the first stint when Lewis had (tyre) graining and after that Fernando was just cruising because we had rear brake issues.
"But after the race, Ron said to Fernando: 'Be nice to Lewis because we had to (pit) stop him early.' And Fernando said: 'What do you mean? I was just cruising.'
"He got very annoyed about that because it was like Ron saying we handed you the victory. Even after that, the relationship was unrecoverable."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewben...n_reargua.html

Now, I have a little exercise for those who have time (and want a bit of fun!): go here http://www.visionf1.com/ , choose the Monaco 2007 GP, and review the time differences between Alonso and Hamilton; and then, let's discuss if Hamilton would have been able to jump Alonso had he been out two more laps.

I am very surprised that anyone still buys the story that Hamilton did not win in Monaco 2007 because of team orders.

[Greig]

Off course Alonso would not say Lewis was quicker

Hamilton stopped on the next lap and closed right up on to the tail of his team-mate with 20 of the 78 laps remaining, but the two men had been told to conserve their equipment and cruise to McLaren's second one-two finish of the season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6696391.stm