Massa: Red Bull’s team orders not “intelligent”

[vcs316]

Felipe Massa has criticised Red Bull’s use of team orders in the Malaysian Grand Prix, saying it was too early in the championship to use them.

“I approve of the intelligent use of team orders and by that I mean those that come at key moments of the championship, not in the second race of the season,” said Massa. “They must be taken with the good of the team in mind.”

“I have helped many drivers, for example with Kimi [Raikkonen] when he won the championship with Ferrari and again last year with Fernando [Alonso], when he was fighting for the title. I have no problem with team orders that fit these criteria.”

Alonso said it was “difficult to comment or have an opinion on what Red Bull and Mercedes did in the last race, without knowing what discussions they had beforehand”, but believes the interests of the team should come first:

“When we come to F1, we enter an agreement with our team and we have a professional obligation towards that team and sometimes people confuse team orders with the obligation to do one’s job.”

In 2010 Massa was ordered to allow Alonso to pass him for the lead in the German Grand Prix at a point when Massa was still capable of winning the championship.

Last year Ferrari deliberately incurred a gearbox change penalty on Massa’s car at the United States Grand Prix which had the effect of moving Alonso forward one place on the grid. At this point Massa had long been out of contention for the championship.

That was the first of four consecutive races in which Massa has outqualified his team mate, but he denies he has drawn any particular satisfaction from that:

“Honestly I never thought about it. All I can say is that I’m pleased with my start to the season and want to continue in this fashion. That statistic isn’t what gives me pleasure.”

“What I like is to go well and to feel confident in the car. These sorts of figures only give you problems. I just want to get on with doing a good job.”

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/04/1...-intelligent/?

[Curbs]

LOL
He just doesn´t know when to zip it.
Hockenheim 2010, you did a wounderful job with the team in mind Sunshine.

[Greig]

LOL
He just doesn´t know when to zip it.
Hockenheim 2010, you did a wounderful job with the team in mind Sunshine.

LOL
You just don't know when to zip it.

[FerrariF60]

LOL
You just don't know when to zip it.

CURBS is right though...in hockenheim 2010, massa only let alonso through ONLY after so many laps, which if he was a true team player he should have let him WAY before that; clearly alonso was faster then him, NOT to mention number one driver status

but anyway, it's water under the bridge

[Greig]

CURBS is right though...in hockenheim 2010, massa only let alonso through ONLY after so many laps, which if he was a true team player he should have let him WAY before that; clearly alonso was faster then him, NOT to mention number one driver status

but anyway, it's water under the bridge

No he never, he let him pass right after he got the message from Rob. Alonso was so clearly faster that he was behind him.....yeah If you actually read what Felipe said it might also help, he never mentioned Germany 10 as he probably still does not agree with it.

[Forzi]

LOL
He just doesn´t know when to zip it.
Hockenheim 2010, you did a wounderful job with the team in mind Sunshine.

He let Fernando pass him. Sure he wasn't happy about it, who would be? Do you actually see ANYONE on the grid that would have handled it better in the press conference? It's racing, if he would have been happy, smiling and proud of it, then why even bother being a racing driver?

[wisepie]

I seem to remember a comment from Felipe in Austin, after the grid manipulation, saying that there aren't many team-mates like him. And that's for sure, bless him, so he has every right to 'un-zip' it if the mood takes him, as I'm sure it will before too long.

[Suzie]

Those quotes came from Ferrari's pre-race press release that they always do, so clearly they have no concerns about him 'zipping it' regarding team orders IF THEY ASKED HIM ABOUT IT.

[Giallo 550]

LOL
He just doesn´t know when to zip it.
Hockenheim 2010, you did a wounderful job with the team in mind Sunshine.

Uhm, last time I checked, his job was to score as many points for the team as possible and win the championship. Felipe held Fernando off for 49 laps and was only trailing him in the championship by 31 points. Felipe immediately let him by once Rob told him to, with nine races including Hockenheim, left in the season. If Fernando was faster than Felipe, it wouldn't have taken a team order for him to pass. Felipe's not the one who needs to learn humility.

[Alonsomaniac]

Uhm, last time I checked, his job was to score as many points for the team as possible and win the championship. Felipe held Fernando off for 49 laps and was only trailing him in the championship by 31 points. Felipe immediately let him by once Rob told him to, with nine races including Hockenheim, left in the season. If Fernando was faster than Felipe, it wouldn't have taken a team order for him to pass. Felipe's not the one who needs to learn humility.

And as a Fernandofan I still dont agree with that teamorder....it was wrong.

[REDARMYSOJA]

And as a Fernandofan I still dont agree with that teamorder....it was wrong.

As a Massa fan, I agreed with it. True Massa still had a chance at the championship, but it was a long shot. It made more sense to give the points to Alonso, and it almost paid off.

I hate that it cost Massa a win, which would have been his first one since his accident and was almost a year after it, but I understood the reason for it, and hope Alonso would do the same for Felipe if needed, which I'm sure he would.

They don't have to like it. I wouldn't want them in the Ferrari if they did, but as long as they do it, that's all that matters.

[Giallo 550]

As a Massa fan, I agreed with it. True Massa still had a chance at the championship, but it was a long shot. It made more sense to give the points to Alonso, and it almost paid off.

I hate that it cost Massa a win, which would have been his first one since his accident and was almost a year after it, but I understood the reason for it, and hope Alonso would do the same for Felipe if needed, which I'm sure he would.

They don't have to like it. I wouldn't want them in the Ferrari if they did, but as long as they do it, that's all that matters.

I agree as well. Fernando did have the better shot and it did almost pay off. My point was that Felipe has always been loyal to the team and that it's absurd to criticize or question anything otherwise based on his record.

[Stormsearcher]

As a Massa fan, I agreed with it. True Massa still had a chance at the championship, but it was a long shot. It made more sense to give the points to Alonso, and it almost paid off.

I hate that it cost Massa a win, which would have been his first one since his accident and was almost a year after it, but I understood the reason for it, and hope Alonso would do the same for Felipe if needed, which I'm sure he would.

They don't have to like it. I wouldn't want them in the Ferrari if they did, but as long as they do it, that's all that matters.

Agree on this. The team took a call on who is more likely to take the challenge to vettel for the championship during that hockenheim race, and it was the right decision.
However, i also believe team orders in the second race of the season is frigging too early.

I think what curbs was implying is the way Rob and felipe handled the episode was wrong. If rob had half a brain he wouldnt have put the team order across that way; would have saved the team a bunch of money too.

[Hornet]

What Red Bull did in Sepang was just a standard procedure many teams do given the same circumstances. It makes no sense to let both driver get into a drag out fight and end up with 0 points.

If Red Bull is going to use team orders to help one driver, it will be for Vettel. It will always be that way, and why not, statistic shows that Vettel will still be the driver most likely to be fighting for the title.

So if Red Bull wanted to do that, it would be to have Webber move aside for Vettel. That's not what they did.

[Meiga]

As a Massa fan, I agreed with it. True Massa still had a chance at the championship, but it was a long shot. It made more sense to give the points to Alonso, and it almost paid off.

I hate that it cost Massa a win, which would have been his first one since his accident and was almost a year after it, but I understood the reason for it, and hope Alonso would do the same for Felipe if needed, which I'm sure he would.

They don't have to like it. I wouldn't want them in the Ferrari if they did, but as long as they do it, that's all that matters.

+1

If I remember it correctly, the people who complained most about that incident (I am not referring to this forum, but to media and comments in general) were not the ones that had Ferrari's best interests at heart.

[Meiga]

Uhm, last time I checked, his job was to score as many points for the team as possible and win the championship. Felipe held Fernando off for 49 laps and was only trailing him in the championship by 31 points. Felipe immediately let him by once Rob told him to, with nine races including Hockenheim, left in the season. If Fernando was faster than Felipe, it wouldn't have taken a team order for him to pass. Felipe's not the one who needs to learn humility.

No, but it would have taken a direct fight with his teammate, with the subsequent risk of a collision and the loss of WCC points. Do you really think it was worth the risk? I think it is obvious that Ferrari had to ask his drivers not to fight each other, and that meant choosing between "hold positions" or "switch positions". Any choice would have meant team orders.

[Alonsomaniac]

+1

If I remember it correctly, the people who complained most about that incident (I am not referring to this forum, but to media and comments in general) were not the ones that had Ferrari's best interests at heart.

Oh, but I DO understand it and yes, it was the best for the team, but it's just a feeling that I have about it...Fernando should have done it himself, it just did not feel right looking at what it had to be for Felipe....
I always have the team's best interest in mind, but I also have heart for both drivers....difficult eh?

[REDARMYSOJA]

Agree on this. The team took a call on who is more likely to take the challenge to vettel for the championship during that hockenheim race, and it was the right decision.
However, i also believe team orders in the second race of the season is frigging too early.

I think what curbs was implying is the way Rob and felipe handled the episode was wrong. If rob had half a brain he wouldnt have put the team order across that way; would have saved the team a bunch of money too.

I agree team orders in the second race are too early, but we are not worrying about that as tifosi. The problems at Red bull are not going to end well for them. BUT, they will end well for Ferrari.

And what Rob said at Hockenheim, I think he was in a position to where he had to make it clear to Felipe that Felipe wasn't living up to his end of the "3 second" agreement. I think Massa knew he was suppose to cede the position in that circumstance, but was probably hoping that since it was for the win, the team would let him disregard the "3 second" agreement.

It was a tough position to be in, but I think Rob handled it best he could, and Felipe did as well. He hung on as long as he had hope, but did give the position up in the end.

The best thing about that situation was it ended the stupid team order ban.

[REDARMYSOJA]

My point was that Felipe has always been loyal to the team and that it's absurd to criticize or question anything otherwise based on his record.

I Agree with that completely.

[Forzi]

Speaking of 2010 incident, on the bright side, it could have gone worse

[Meiga]

Oh, but I DO understand it and yes, it was the best for the team, but it's just a feeling that I have about it...Fernando should have done it himself, it just did not feel right looking at what it had to be for Felipe....
I always have the team's best interest in mind, but I also have heart for both drivers....difficult eh?

You comment was very mild, Alonsomaniac, and I think we all share your views that it is always nicer to see drivers fully racing each other. I was referring to those who vociferously attacked Ferrari, Alonso and Massa for that incident.

[wisepie]

I agree as well. Fernando did have the better shot and it did almost pay off. My point was that Felipe has always been loyal to the team and that it's absurd to criticize or question anything otherwise based on his record.

I wonder if, with hindsight, Felipe was more upset about the Hockenheim team order, as it could possibly have been his first win since his accident and maybe he felt that it was unfair. Despite that, though, he still plays the team game better than anyone and nothing would please me more than seeing Felipe get a win again. I'm sure that goes for most of us.

[Stormsearcher]

I agree team orders in the second race are too early, but we are not worrying about that as tifosi. The problems at Red bull are not going to end well for them. BUT, they will end well for Ferrari. .

Absolutely. waiting for them to implode. With the way they are going, it shant be long.

[Poltergeistes]

Oh, but I DO understand it and yes, it was the best for the team, but it's just a feeling that I have about it...Fernando should have done it himself, it just did not feel right looking at what it had to be for Felipe....
I always have the team's best interest in mind, but I also have heart for both drivers....difficult eh?

I think alot of it has to do with what results came from it, right after that message i thought it was pretty bad, the way the message was given was just something heart crushing, but then after a while i could understand the decision to let fernando get as many points as possible towards the end.

Then there was the aftermath, there was no way around this, the timing of it, the way the press reacted, the fans, it was all done very wrong, in a way that was like a second blow to his head. i remember him talking about going to therapy to simply try and get his mind right again, a driver without confidence is a complete disaster.

I think it was worth the points, but not worth what it did to Felipe's morale (and then his endless downhill performances after) it seems like the kind of job they do, it's not the best thing in the world to drive a F1 car when you feel like your team doesn't really beleive in you. and he is human, it would only be natural to feel like that, i think any driver would feel the same way.

I think it was the way it was done, the way the message was given to him, it could not have been worst.

[Prancing Bear]

Speaking of 2010 incident, on the bright side, it could have gone worse
[video=[/video]

I've had that happen to me in 2011 before... The force in who've I hit my wheel cannot be explained through words. Players that do that should be banned from all racing games... FOR LIFE!!!

[Giallo 550]

No, but it would have taken a direct fight with his teammate, with the subsequent risk of a collision and the loss of WCC points. Do you really think it was worth the risk? I think it is obvious that Ferrari had to ask his drivers not to fight each other, and that meant choosing between "hold positions" or "switch positions". Any choice would have meant team orders.

They were and are both professional drivers. There's always a risk when anybody passes anybody, but Fernando wasn't ever really close enough to make a move, so it's a moot point. The whole thing is irrelevant anyway. I wasn't criticizing Ferrari's decision, I was reflecting on criticizing Felipe for Hockenheim when he moved over when he was told to so. My humility comment was also directed at Vettel, who's little more than a spoiled, entitled, snotty brat.

[Poltergeistes]

They were and are both professional drivers. There's always a risk when anybody passes anybody, but Fernando wasn't ever really close enough to make a move, so it's a moot point. The whole thing is irrelevant anyway. I wasn't criticizing Ferrari's decision, I was reflecting on criticizing Felipe for Hockenheim when he moved over when he was told to so. My humility comment was also directed at Vettel, who's little more than a spoiled, entitled, snotty brat.

exactly! Wether it was a good or bad call, the fact remain, our drivers followed orders, which is one thing sebastian isn't able to.

i'm definetly agaisnt any driver behind the wheel of a scuderia car that would venture putting their own personal interest in front of the team. scuderia ferrari is not a democracy its a hierarchy, plain and simple.

[redkid]

How about this Chinese GP qualifying...Webber running out of fuel,ouch!!!

More conspiracy theory for you mate eh?!

Think about it Mark,it does'nt need a rocket scientist to figure out that RB is fully behind Vettel.