Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 72

Thread: Pirelli tyres making Formula 1 'a bit like wrestling' says Webber

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238

    Pirelli tyres making Formula 1 'a bit like wrestling' says Webber

    Controversy over Pirelli's approach to Formula 1 reached a new pitch in China as the sight of an empty track for much of qualifying and soft tyres less durable than perhaps any of the era so far prompted fresh ire from sections of the paddock.

    Jonathan Noble rounds up F1 figures' thoughts on the Shanghai tyre situation.

    Mark Webber believes Formula 1 has become 'a little bit WWF' thanks to the extreme degradation being delivered by the latest Pirelli tyres.

    Ahead of the Chinese Grand Prix that most drivers expect to be dominated by difficulties with excessive wear on the soft tyres, Webber suggests the bid to chase spectacle has gone too far.

    "It will all look good in the first five or six laps, having everyone fighting, but it's a little bit WWF at the moment," said Webber, referring to the former name of the World Wrestling Entertainment series.

    Webber also reckoned that the tyres were so sensitive that there was little chance of actually being able to race with them, even if the soft tyre was used for the final stint when cars had less fuel on board.

    "[Adrian] Sutil tried that in Melbourne and Pirelli said that there were indications that the race fell apart for him because he tried to race people," he said.

    "Whatever fuel load you have got in the car, if you race people, you are in trouble. So just don't race, put the tyre on and just try and get home."

    Pole position man Lewis Hamilton admitted that for him the tyre situation was a step into the unknown, especially with big question marks about how long the soft compound will last.

    "I don't feel particularly comfortable with these tyres," he said. "It doesn't really last very long, but I believe other people were having the same problems. It is not just us."

    His Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg thought the soft tyre situation was pretty extreme.

    "For sure it will be quite a crazy race, definitely all over the place," he said.

    "With those tyres it is more of a question of how many corners you are going to get to, rather than laps!

    "For sure, and at the start, as we have seen on Friday, there are differences of seconds between some people on options, so it will be very challenging and a lot can happen definitely."

    QUESTIONS OVER QUALIFYING IMPACT

    The nature of the tyres, allied to the rule that stipulates the top 10 qualifiers must start on the tyres that they set their best lap on, meant there was only limited running on Saturday afternoon.

    Although that prompted some to question whether high-degrading tyres were now wrecking the spectacle of qualifying, leading figures think that such a scenario is a price worth paying if it makes the racing more exciting.

    McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh said: "I think for qualifying, the show has been detracted from by the tyres we have. That caused the circumstances we have just seen, but the upside is that it is an advantage for the race."

    Jenson Button added: "I totally agree with qualifying being a bit up in the air, and also cars were running very late in Q1, Q2 and Q3.

    "In Q3, there was one car in the garage, and two cars driving around like 'Miss Daisy' - one of them was me.

    "But the positive out of this is that there are going to be seven cars tomorrow with grained tyres that aren't going to last very long, and you will have guys on pretty much brand new primes fighting their way through.

    "So it does hurt qualifying but it helps the race, especially those first few laps of the race where we love a good fight."

    MEDIUM CHOICE DRIVERS WILL LEAD ON SUNDAY

    Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn expects the race lead to move around quite a lot on Sunday when the top drivers on soft tyres all make an early stop to switch to the medium compound.Some have suggested the first stop could come as early as lap five, although others expect them to last perhaps more than twice that.

    "I think it will be a complex race for us tomorrow – and we don't really know what we've got," explained Brawn.

    "There are two very strong competitors in the top 10, maybe three with [Nico] Hulkenberg, on the prime – and they will be leading the race for a while. It will then start to evolve from there.

    "It will be an interesting race and those on the soft tyre will drop back into the groups, so it is picking the holes in the traffic.

    "I think it will be a great race tomorrow but one we need to be on top of and know what we need to do. Even on prime you cannot go flat out for 20 laps you have to manage the situation as well."

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106731?
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stowmarket. U.K
    Posts
    18,334
    As much as i moan about the tyres, Pirelli were asked to do this by the FIA. But, think this years tyres are a step to far, yeah teams should tyr to understand them and work them out like last year.But form what im seeing, i dint think they can.

    Welcome to Formula Pirelli... have to drive to a delta lap time and hope to do 2 pit stops. Dont try and race as the tyres willnot last and you will/may finish out of the points, lapped or have tyre burst from punishing them to much.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    As much as i moan about the tyres, Pirelli were asked to do this by the FIA. But, think this years tyres are a step to far, yeah teams should tyr to understand them and work them out like last year.But form what im seeing, i dint think they can.

    Welcome to Formula Pirelli... have to drive to a delta lap time and hope to do 2 pit stops. Dont try and race as the tyres willnot last and you will/may finish out of the points, lapped or have tyre burst from punishing them to much.
    I quite honestly do not understand what was wrong earlier. Refueling & tyres that do not fall off the cliff after 3 laps. Remember how we used to enjoy watching drivers push to the limit in a particular stint? Nowadays everyone drives like they are treading on egg-shells. Its all about conserving tyres and not about which team/car is the fastest!

    Bring back refueling & durable tyres!!
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    Also, the last stint (after the final pit stops) are a joke and a procession. It is all about conserve tyres, hold position, Multi 21 .... grrrrr

    Okay, rant over!
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    4,931
    I don't have that much of an issue with Pirelli, but when you have no action for 15 minutes of a 20 min session, 12 mins of a 15 mins session and 8 mins of a 10 min session, you have mandatory tyres that can't last at all and I don't think a single lap is done at maximum push from the drivers, something is a little wrong.

    As for the WWF reference...

    IF YA SMELLLLLLLLLLLL



    MY TYRES COOKING!

    (I had to )


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stowmarket. U.K
    Posts
    18,334
    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    I quite honestly do not understand what was wrong earlier. Refueling & tyres that do not fall off the cliff after 3 laps. Remember how we used to enjoy watching drivers push to the limit in a particular stint? Nowadays everyone drives like they are treading on egg-shells. Its all about conserving tyres and not about which team/car is the fastest!

    Bring back refueling & durable tyres!!


    At least then aswell, it was the car not tyres that made the difference. Now, no matter how good the updates, if the tyres are giving up after 2-9 laps whats the point in updating the car. Here you go Bernie and FIA, save money for the teams, use the launch car and have no update packages as the tyres are the performance factor.

    I loved refueling and watching drivers doing what they do best, drive hard and push to the limits lap after lap.Sometimes going over those limits.

    Just look at Le-Mans 24hrs now, that is flat out racing for the whole 24hrs. Also the WEC, is flat out racing for 6 hours.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    And Formula 1, flat out racing for the first 5 laps
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ferrari Car
    Posts
    1,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    As much as i moan about the tyres, Pirelli were asked to do this by the FIA.
    The problem it's that FIA is clueless.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    931
    I jest, but there's a trade descriptions case to answer somewhere. These are not 'race' tyres by definition. Only in F1 can such interference happen. Can you imagine giving a footballer a pair of boots that won't last the full 90 minutes? Or a ball that pops if you take more than 1 shot on goal?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    3,143
    That tyre situation is indeed beyond ridiculous. I know that the point of these disintegrating tyres is to provide more excitement but in my opinion this kind of artificial excitement is pure nonsense. It would be much better if we had some normal durable tyres and then we could see who's really the fastest, but right now the most important thing in F1 is to keep a moderate pace in order to preserve the tyres. That's just stupid. Come on FIA stop with this charade!
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    864
    They just need to drop the rules about Q3 tyres and using both specifications during the race as it's stupid to race with qualifying tyres.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    7,859
    Just bring back refueling. Screw the cost and eco-friendly stuff. It's F1 for god's sake, it should be loud, hi-tech and expensive.

    IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    3,143
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    Just bring back refueling. Screw the cost and eco-friendly stuff. It's F1 for god's sake, it should be loud, hi-tech and expensive.
    Completely agree
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    864
    It's unsafe, it ruins races/championships and it has no relevance to the Pirelli tyres.




  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    7,859
    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    It's unsafe, it ruins races/championships and it has no relevance to the Pirelli tyres.
    It's relevant. There would be no need for this crap excuse for tyres if there would exist another big strategy element.

    Usafe? Whole motoracing is unsafe.
    Ruins races/championships... Tyres we have now not only ruins races and championships but they are ruining the RACING.

    IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,495
    The tire rules are stupid. Let them qualify and start on whatever tires they want.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Cricova, Moldova
    Posts
    626
    It's way too much... exagerating I'd say. Exciting someone may say? Just like Webber said: Go watch WWF...

    We want to see drivers attacking the hell out of the car, bite toughly the kerbs and looking for late brakings! Maan, it's true that everything that's old is always much better.
    Ferrari per sempre !

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    345
    ill be happy in f1 with just 2 stops.. 1 stop race is boring.
    id say they should qualify on a qualifying tire, and should race only on one tire compound that last about 20 laps. So only bring 1 tire compound for the race..
    Maybe FIA can make a rule you must pit atleast twice for every race.. That way everyone could go out and fight

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,331
    In China today today we had conformation on team radios that managing the tyres was far important than Racing, for me that has spoiled F1 for far too long now.

    I am in total agreement with Vics and Rob lets get back to seeing what the cars and drivers are realy capable of, lets see the refueling and tyre stratagies of the golden days, teams deciding what fuel load will get them them an ideal distance that matches the tyre wear and the teams and drivers can once again show us how they can race and battle with each other.
    Its all in the name - FERRARI

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    In China today today we had conformation on team radios that managing the tyres was far important than Racing, for me that has spoiled F1 for far too long now.

    I am in total agreement with Vics and Rob lets get back to seeing what the cars and drivers are realy capable of, lets see the refueling and tyre stratagies of the golden days, teams deciding what fuel load will get them them an ideal distance that matches the tyre wear and the teams and drivers can once again show us how they can race and battle with each other.
    Today you cannot even run close to another car coz the dirty air screws up the aero/air flow... Bring back aero rules that allow slipstreaming and close racing!! Sadly, today aero has become more important than the engine
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    947
    Hell!! We won today!!

    let's keep it like this till the end of the season!!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    574
    Bring back refueling! Bring back competing Tyre manufactures,get rid of aerodynamics,and concentrate on mechanical grip and engine grunt! Bring back neck breaking G forces,bring back cars that do over 200 mph racing,bring back V12's and strap a couple of turbos on it.Give F1 it's balls back for gods sake!!! This season is exciting,but I'm losing hope..F1 should be like fighter jets,not go karts!!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kasterlee, Belgio
    Posts
    174
    I'm guessing you people weren't around in the nineties and nillies, when we had all of that (refueling, V10s, V12s, less aero, tyre-wars) and Grand Prix were utterly boring.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,882
    Quote Originally Posted by FA fan View Post
    Bring back refueling! Bring back competing Tyre manufactures,get rid of aerodynamics,and concentrate on mechanical grip and engine grunt! Bring back neck breaking G forces,bring back cars that do over 200 mph racing,bring back V12's and strap a couple of turbos on it.Give F1 it's balls back for gods sake!!! This season is exciting,but I'm losing hope..F1 should be like fighter jets,not go karts!!
    neck breaking G force actually requires aerodynamic downforce. For the cars to go around a turn faster than they should (which is limited by mechanical grip), aero downforce is induced to press the car down onto the ground.

    However, there are two different method of generating downforce, by using wings, or ground effect. These days we focus most of the downforce on the wings, which is creating all the problem. Ground effect is not affected by running close behind cars, and this is why back in the days we see many fights that can go on lap after lap with drivers trading places. Even after shaped floor was banned, F1 car still rely on the diffuser to create a majority of its downforce back then.

    The problem with FIA is they don't know how to take a step back, IMO. We reduced the diffuser size to reduce turbulence that affects the front wing of the back car, but that didn't work. So what they should do now is go back to aggressive diffusers, but reduce the wing size instead so we don't really need them. If the front wing is only responsible for 5% of the total downforce, it's no big deal when we lose those 5%.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    none
    Posts
    1,108
    LOL, LOL, LOL! "Tire Management" is part of EVERY racing series!!!! NASCAR, Indy Car, Rally, LeMans / Protypes, Sports Cars, Etc. ALL have to manage their tires properly so why should Formula One be any different!!!!!

    I think we are hearing "Sour Grapes" from those drivers and teams that have not figured the tires out yet!!!! Alonso and the Ferrari Team has figured the tires out and are performing VERY WELL, Thank You!!!!! Massa may want to copy Alonso's Set-Up in order to get the most out of the tires and to stop the "Graining" issue he has bee getting. Driving Style plays a very big part in controling the wear rate of the tire and get the most grip out of them. Obviously, the tires reward the "Smooth" driving style which Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton and Button have. We saw this clearly in the race and we saw Vettel's Soft Tire die quickly when he drove to harshly on them. At one point Alonso had a 40+ second lead over the 2nd place car! Those are big numbers and the F138 worked flawlessly!!!! Massa needs to copy Alonso's setings and get back into it!!!!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kolkata,India
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Horse View Post
    Completely agree
    In the refueling era,races used to be decided on the pit wall. There was never much meaningful on-track action between 1994 and 2010...so i would say a big NO to refueling...

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kolkata,India
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by FA fan View Post
    Bring back refueling! Bring back competing Tyre manufactures,get rid of aerodynamics,and concentrate on mechanical grip and engine grunt! Bring back neck breaking G forces,bring back cars that do over 200 mph racing,bring back V12's and strap a couple of turbos on it.Give F1 it's balls back for gods sake!!! This season is exciting,but I'm losing hope..F1 should be like fighter jets,not go karts!!
    Refueling would make races extremely boring as pit strategies would decide everything...
    Competing tyre manufacturers would mean the re-emergence of bespoke tyres...
    But yes,the effect of aerodynamics MUST be reduced. Hopefully,the 2014 rules will help a great deal in this regard,and engines will decide the pecking order as much as aerodynamics.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kolkata,India
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by Stino View Post
    I'm guessing you people weren't around in the nineties and nillies, when we had all of that (refueling, V10s, V12s, less aero, tyre-wars) and Grand Prix were utterly boring.
    I fully agree with you. The problem is that most F1 fans either have very short attention spans,or the most vocal of them atleast have been watching F1 only for the past 3-4 seasons. The seasons from 1994-2009(when refueling was compulsory) were among the worst ever in F1 history.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    33,629
    Quote Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee View Post
    I fully agree with you. The problem is that most F1 fans either have very short attention spans,or the most vocal of them atleast have been watching F1 only for the past 3-4 seasons. The seasons from 1994-2009(when refueling was compulsory) were among the worst ever in F1 history.
    Define worst?

    94,97,98,99,2000,2003,2005,2006,2007,2008 were all great seasons I thought.
    Forza Ferrari

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Define worst?

    94,97,98,99,2000,2003,2005,2006,2007,2008 were all great seasons I thought.
    Greig! How can you forget 2004? It was the best season ever
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •