2014 Regulations.(engine/aero etc etc)

[brembo man]

You folks are extremely knowledgeable ! Thanks for the details. Now I can repeat what I've read here to my friends and they'll think i'm also a F1 expert. Agradecido !

[Sha1]

THAT IS INCORRECT!!!

It's actually about 102 kg

100 kg will be for the race (start-finish), but additional few kilos will be needed for the warm up lap and fuel sample

The formation lap is part of the race.

[Forzi]

The formation lap is part of the race.

It's stated "from the time at which the signal to start the race is given", so the lap to go from the garage to the grid, warm-up lap and sample will demand about 102 kg of fuel.

[hrc5555]

It's stated "from the time at which the signal to start the race is given", so the lap to go from the garage to the grid, warm-up lap and sample will demand about 102 kg of fuel.

Source??

[hrc5555]

The engine spec is rather tight. Bore - 80mm, +- 0.1mm. 90 degree V, exhaust must be outboard of V, valve stems not less than 5mm, RPM limited to 15,000, below 10,500 RPM mass fuel flow shall not exceed 0.009N9RPM)+5, fuel mass flow shall not exceed 100kg/h, engine minimum weight is 155kg, engine center of gravity must be higher than 200mm above the reference plane, one injector per cylinder, direct injection only, fuel pressure at the injectors may not exceed 500 bars, engines must use FIA approved injectors, one coil, only standard resistor type spark plugs, one spark plug per cylinder, no magnesium alloys, no metal matrix composites, no ceramics or ceramic matric composites, no tungsten alloys, limited use of iridium, beryllium and rhenium...you get the point. The FIA has pretty well designed the engine and energy recovery systems, what they are made of, what they weigh, roughly how big they can be and where they are located in the car.

Basically, the power production and recovery units are fixed (because that is how the FIA wants it). Of course there will be some small variation, but it is more likely that somebody will get it wrong than somebody will do it far better than the competition without breaking the rules and as the engines are refined the differences will become less and less.

Sorry for german language. As I said before, different approach and different technology could result with quite different engine! Auto Motor Und Sport thinks the same! Mercedes is expecting to have 100hp more than Ferrari and Renault! And they are even trying to get different rear tires so they can have better use of all that power.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...l-7564699.html

[Hornet]

Sorry for german language. As I said before, different approach and different technology could result with quite different engine! Auto Motor Und Sport thinks the same! Mercedes is expecting to have 100hp more than Ferrari and Renault! And they are even trying to get different rear tires so they can have better use of all that power.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...l-7564699.html

They have said many things that were not true in the past. It's just another media speculation. Maybe it's not that they really believe Mercedes is better, they just want Mercedes to be better.

[Consult_K_Young]

Am I correct that they're saying the 2014 engine will have 100hp more? If so Hornet is correct that's pure speculation.

[Kiwi Nick]

Source??

Section 29.5 FIA Sporting Regulations - 2014 (in its entirety, verbatim)


"29.5 No car is permitted to consume more than 100kg of fuel, from the time at which the signal to start the race is given to the time each car crosses the Line after the end-of-race signal has been given. Other than in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), any driver exceeding this limit will be excluded from the race results."

It is not clear how this will be measured

[scuderiafan]

I have a hard time believing these 2014 engine second hand rumours.

[stefa]

Couple of more months and all the speculation will be over!

[Rishu]

One thing is clear.. Women's tennis will make more sound than 2014 engines

[ManFromMilan]

Marussia came out and said how excited they are of working with Ferrari next year. How they are sure the engines will be innovative and so on. Just PR blah blah jadda jadda jadda.

As they did not reveal anything that could be really seen as too positive or informative i hope this means Ferrari really have a cat in the bag, so to speak, and has not even let Marussia in on it. Playing their cards really close to their chests until next season.

[Kyss4k]

Marussia came out and said how excited they are of working with Ferrari next year. How they are sure the engines will be innovative and so on. Just PR blah blah jadda jadda jadda.

As they did not reveal anything that could be really seen as too positive or informative i hope this means Ferrari really have a cat in the bag, so to speak, and has not even let Marussia in on it. Playing their cards really close to their chests until next season.

It's Marussia... everything will be better then Cosworth.

[hrc5555]

The rumours are that Ferrari is hiding the pictures of new engine so that no one can copy their solutions...

[NanoTheQuickest]

It makes laugh when I read comments/rumors about Ferrari's 2014 engine being the less powerful or less advanced. So you think a company that's has been making some of the most powerful units in years and has been winning awards left right and center with its road cars engines will suddenly make the worst f1 engine ever. Some how I find it hard to believe.

And I also would like to counter argue a member who said in another thread that no other team wanted our engine because it was not good. Well, Ferrari may not want anybody else to have their engine because they don't want any other team to be as competitive as them next year. I don't think Ferrari is going to cry if there yearly revenue has £10m missing next April, plus they can earn a lot more if they end-up on top anyway.

[F1NAC]

It makes laugh when I read comments/rumors about Ferrari's 2014 engine being the less powerful or less advanced. So you think a company that's has been making some of the most powerful units in years and has been winning awards left right and center with its road cars engines will suddenly make the worst f1 engine ever. Some how I find it hard to believe.

And I also would like to counter argue a member who said in another thread that no other team wanted our engine because it was not good. Well, Ferrari may not want anybody else to have their engine because they don't want any other team to be as competitive as them next year. I don't think Ferrari is going to cry if there yearly revenue has £10m missing next April, plus they can earn a lot more if they end-up on top anyway.

yea but they need as much teams to test their engine during the season. More teams , more data better understanding

[Hornet]

Yeah, Ferrari is actually looking to get as many teams to run their engine as they can (so do the other engine manufacturer of course). IIRC, we have a year to develop the engine before the freeze, and with limited testing, more teams using Ferrari engine means more testing. It will also quickly expose any reliability problems so it can be fixed, hopefully before the season starts.

[NanoTheQuickest]

Yeah, Ferrari is actually looking to get as many teams to run their engine as they can (so do the other engine manufacturer of course). IIRC, we have a year to develop the engine before the freeze, and with limited testing, more teams using Ferrari engine means more testing. It will also quickly expose any reliability problems so it can be fixed, hopefully before the season starts.

Yes I know, what I meant is I'm sure we don't want our engine in a team that could "possibly" out perform us in terms of development like FI, Williams etc. So far we have two (which is enough), Sauber to be confirmed soon which we all know would do as told and Marussia which are miles behind and would do as told as well. I mean how bad would we look if we were beaten by another team with our engine.

[Nova]

It makes laugh when I read comments/rumors about Ferrari's 2014 engine being the less powerful or less advanced. So you think a company that's has been making some of the most powerful units in years and has been winning awards left right and center with its road cars engines will suddenly make the worst f1 engine ever. Some how I find it hard to believe.

And I also would like to counter argue a member who said in another thread that no other team wanted our engine because it was not good. Well, Ferrari may not want anybody else to have their engine because they don't want any other team to be as competitive as them next year. I don't think Ferrari is going to cry if there yearly revenue has £10m missing next April, plus they can earn a lot more if they end-up on top anyway.

Ferrari has vast experience with Turbo units, not to mention engines. Im more concerned about the chassis, but Allison did great b4, so no reason
to think he wont continue. I wonder what these new cars will look like?

[Tifoso]

Ferrari has vast experience with Turbo units, not to mention engines. Im more concerned about the chassis, but Allison did great b4, so no reason
to think he wont continue. I wonder what these new cars will look like?

Please no hideous step noses.

[shamim179]

Yeah, Ferrari is actually looking to get as many teams to run their engine as they can (so do the other engine manufacturer of course). IIRC, we have a year to develop the engine before the freeze, and with limited testing, more teams using Ferrari engine means more testing. It will also quickly expose any reliability problems so it can be fixed, hopefully before the season starts.

Well if Ferrari are trying to get as many customers as possible, they're doing a poor job at it. We're hearing nothing but negative stuff about the Ferrari engine from the media. It's a lot to do with confidence. If you create a sense of confidence people will think that you're good. It's either Ferrari are in trouble or are purposely keeping a low profile.

[Hornet]

Well if Ferrari are trying to get as many customers as possible, they're doing a poor job at it. We're hearing nothing but negative stuff about the Ferrari engine from the media. It's a lot to do with confidence. If you create a sense of confidence people will think that you're good. It's either Ferrari are in trouble or are purposely keeping a low profile.

Well I think the media are just guessing because our engine has the cheapest price (either that or they assume the worse from our silence). I'd imagine Ferrari do bring some important info when they are negotiating with their customers, info that are kept secret from others. I would guess that our customers know more than the media and us fans (which at the moment is nothing, not even a picture).

Perhaps the media silence is to avoid revealing any competitive information. If Ferrari managed to design a more compact one for example, its best not to show others yet even if it's just a picture or sound.

[Nova]

Please no hideous step noses.

Oh I agree..I really like 74 thru 83, then 89 to 92, then 97 thru 2006..
the F2010 was cool, the 2011 too, but that duckbill was pretty out there.

[Liscia]

I refuse to worry about Ferrari's engines for next year as I also refuse to
believe what are only speculations about the so-called superiority of rival
motors. I take everything with a SACK of salt until we are able to judge
for ourselves on actual performance in the opening races.
Ferrari has ample experience in turbo/super charging and I'm quite confident
in their ability to deliver an amply powerful/reliable/efficient engine
for the new formula.

[ntukza]

.. I'd imagine Ferrari do bring some important info when they are negotiating with their customers, info that are kept secret from others. I would guess that our customers know more than the media and us fans (which at the moment is nothing, not even a picture).

The teams that are approached by the 3 suppliers get detailed info on 3 engines. Their choice would then suggest the superiority of a particular engine over the others.

[Hornet]

The teams that are approached by the 3 suppliers get detailed info on 3 engines. Their choice would then suggest the superiority of a particular engine over the others.

Wait, does that mean the list of customers reflects the potential quality of the engines?

[shamim179]

The teams that are approached by the 3 suppliers get detailed info on 3 engines. Their choice would then suggest the superiority of a particular engine over the others.

Exactly which is why I'm concerned. Why aren't other teams like Williams, force India and lotus considering Ferrari's engine when most if not all three are under financial strain? We don't even hear them talk about considering the Ferrari engine. Ferrari were aggressively pushing marussia to take on their engine and have sauber in a very vulnerable position. These aren't good signs.

[Nero Horse]

Exactly which is why I'm concerned. Why aren't other teams like Williams, force India and lotus considering Ferrari's engine when most if not all three are under financial strain? We don't even hear them talk about considering the Ferrari engine. Ferrari were aggressively pushing marussia to take on their engine and have sauber in a very vulnerable position. These aren't good signs.

Teams like Williams, Mclaren and Lotus would never-ever even consider using Ferrari's engines no matter how great and reliable they'd be, because we are way too big rivals to them. It would be the same as, well let's say for example Ferrari started using Mclaren's or Williams' engines lol (if they would make engines) . In the early 2000's Ferrari's engines were light-years ahead of every other engine and still only Sauber was Ferrari's only engine user. So it's nothing new. Just calm down.

[FrankAlfa]

Some people are post very "Strange" comments about the 2014 Ferrari Engine. Other teams not choosing the Ferrari Engine because it is a Less Perfect Design is kind of hard to believe. Maybe the "Terms" of the Contract with Ferrari are more restrictive and therefore not so easy to live with???
Maybe there is "Language" in the terms of the agreement which is not to their liking. Maybe Ferrari are only willing to put their engine in a team that is not a threat to them and will use the data in a very controling manner. Obviously, Ferrari is only looking for a "Test Team" to use their Engine and Gearbox. They are certainly NOT looking for a team to possibly overtake them. Ferrari are looking for a "Laboratory" Team to test their engines!

[ManFromMilan]

Some people are post very "Strange" comments about the 2014 Ferrari Engine. Other teams not choosing the Ferrari Engine because it is a Less Perfect Design is kind of hard to believe. Maybe the "Terms" of the Contract with Ferrari are more restrictive and therefore not so easy to live with???

I think that might be a big factor. Mercedes can win with Mclaren and still get the glory, but Ferrari with the heritage they have of engine and chassis builders will suffer the agony of being defeated by someone else and as Nero said there are a few teams that will probably never race a Ferrari engine just because of that.

That might also be why Toro Rosso are not going to be running Ferrari engines next year. They might have been showed the door because they are too close to RBR and that is not the environment Ferrari wants as it could lead to data being gathered or exchanged with RBR and their engine supplier.