2014 Regulations.(engine/aero etc etc)

[SilverSpeed]

[Nova]

Man, thats ugly....
Not the monkey..the sketch.
Oh well, at least the 458's look glorious in sports racing...
Which is where I may end up if I have to look at noses like that..
They scare me .........
If so, it may be time for a break...I took 93 and 94 off. We were so bad
and the cars where so ugly I needed a break...Still watched Lemans
and sports cars though. And WRC..

[Ken]

Why are we obsessed with looks over advantage ?

That drooping nose if researched fully could produce down force for the front end of the car which in turn means the front wing could be simplified and not be so critical when following another car ???

I am eager to see who makes the best use of it next year, Hopefully US

[Hornet]

Why are we obsessed with looks over advantage ?

That drooping nose if researched fully could produce down force for the front end of the car which in turn means the front wing could be simplified and not be so critical when following another car ???

I am eager to see who makes the best use of it next year, Hopefully US

It's not the most efficient way, but rather a consequence of poorly written rules. Without the rule, the team would do some other design such as those we're seeing today.

So these ugly nose are there purely because of the rules. They are not aerodynamically efficient. And it's certianly not an advantage because it wouldn't be unique to one team. If proven to be the better approach towards the 2014 rules, then most team will use it merely because of the new rules.

[Ken]

It's not the most efficient way, but rather a consequence of poorly written rules. Without the rule, the team would do some other design such as those we're seeing today.

So these ugly nose are there purely because of the rules. They are not aerodynamically efficient. And it's certianly not an advantage because it wouldn't be unique to one team. If proven to be the better approach towards the 2014 rules, then most team will use it merely because of the new rules.

All we have seen is someone's interpretation of the rule, and I dare say have drawn it to suit their opinion.

Because the nose has to curved or be slanted downwards toward the front, it provides a natural surface that will generate high pressure thereby forcing the front end into the tarmac (down force).
Take that concept and design a nose shape which can maximise that effect and you then need less effect from the front wing which may also reduce drag and make the car more predictable when following another car.

[Nova]

Why are we obsessed with looks over advantage ?

That drooping nose if researched fully could produce down force for the front end of the car which in turn means the front wing could be simplified and not be so critical when following another car ???

I am eager to see who makes the best use of it next year, Hopefully US

I dont think anyone is obsessed with looks OVER advantage..I mean, who says a car that works has to be ugly? I simply think that artists rendition of the rules is..well..ugly.

[Hornet]

All we have seen is someone's interpretation of the rule, and I dare say have drawn it to suit their opinion.

Because the nose has to curved or be slanted downwards toward the front, it provides a natural surface that will generate high pressure thereby forcing the front end into the tarmac (down force).
Take that concept and design a nose shape which can maximise that effect and you then need less effect from the front wing which may also reduce drag and make the car more predictable when following another car.

It doesn't generate downforce at all, the nose curve is in the opposite direction of what you need to generate downforce (refer the rear wing). You can't generate anything with such thickness anyway, even if the curve is similar to the rear wing.

The only reason it's curved that way is to satisfy the rule. The rule was poorly thought out, simple as that.

Scarb was the first to draw the step nose as well back in 2011. Look at how many teams adopted the step nose design in 2012. This is not something you can twist to suit your opinion. There's a science to this.

[Ken]

It doesn't generate downforce at all, the nose curve is in the opposite direction of what you need to generate downforce (refer the rear wing). You can't generate anything with such thickness anyway, even if the curve is similar to the rear wing.

The only reason it's curved that way is to satisfy the rule. The rule was poorly thought out, simple as that.

Scarb was the first to draw the step nose as well back in 2011. Look at how many teams adopted the step nose design in 2012. This is not something you can twist to suit your opinion. There's a science to this.

OK let try and explain some basic Aerodynamics.

1 The top surface has to be longer than the bottom surface as per the typical airfoil on the wing of a plane to produce Low pressure above the wing and generate high pressure under the wing which we call lift.

2 Then the airfoil has to be presented to the oncoming air at a slight angle, Leading edge higher than the trailing edge known as the angle of incidence. This angle has a very limited range 0 - 5 degrees generally. Above that the high pressure breaks down resulting in turbulence over the wing which = pure drag and no lift so the wing is unable to produce lift. However if the Angle of incidence is Negative ie. the leading is lower than the trailing edge then the underside produces more low pressure than the upper surface and the plane descends this angle only needs to be -3 degrees.

If you look back at the curve and the angle on the drawing, it can be seen that the front is far to low to produce lift, in fact the air streaming onto that part has no access to the under surface directly thereby creating a partial vacuum under the nose and the angle of the top surface curved or flat will cause High pressure on top surface of that section of the nose. More downforce at the region of the car.

I hope that clears it up a bit for you.

[Hornet]

OK let try and explain some basic Aerodynamics.

1 The top surface has to be longer than the bottom surface as per the typical airfoil on the wing of a plane to produce Low pressure above the wing and generate high pressure under the wing which we call lift.

2 Then the airfoil has to be presented to the oncoming air at a slight angle, Leading edge higher than the trailing edge known as the angle of incidence. This angle has a very limited range 0 - 5 degrees generally. Above that the high pressure breaks down resulting in turbulence over the wing which = pure drag and no lift so the wing is unable to produce lift. However if the Angle of incidence is Negative ie. the leading is lower than the trailing edge then the underside produces more low pressure than the upper surface and the plane descends this angle only needs to be -3 degrees.

If you look back at the curve and the angle on the drawing, it can be seen that the front is far to low to produce lift, in fact the air streaming onto that part has no access to the under surface directly thereby creating a partial vacuum under the nose and the angle of the top surface curved or flat will cause High pressure on top surface of that section of the nose. More downforce at the region of the car.

I hope that clears it up a bit for you.

If you can generate downforce that way, the teams would have made it wider, and not narrower. The reason why it's narrow is simply because they do not want that nose tip. So, it's as narrow as the rules allow. which looks like that.

Besides, even right now, there's nothing to stop the team from implementing what you suggest, but it isn't done because that's not how it works.

[Ken]

I have spent most of my life Designing and building model aeroplanes for competitions and have had to research, cut and try and develope solutions to make them perform the various tasks that the competitions demand. I did not write the rules of physics relevant to this subject I can only try and use them to advantage. like every other application I have to compromise one aspect to get an advantage in another area of the models characteristics.

Sacrificing wind resistance to gain grip will always be an equation, where there are endless possible solutions and the team that gets it right will be the winner.

Have you seen what the teams are actually going to make or have deigned, if you have that information I for one would love to see it.

So far all I have seen is the sketch posted here, which I view with doubts.

Considering there are 2 main aspects of aero design at work on an F1 car.

1/ down force directly through the body to the wheels to get better grip via wings front and back.;

2/ the flow over the total car to create low pressure under the car and to specific areas under the floor.

Plus fine tuning of the hot expanding gases from the exhaust to aid the rear wing create more more down force. Though the FIA in its "wisdom" is trying to prevent that, and for like of me I cant see why.

An aspect that might be useable next year is the large amounts of air that the turbos need has to drawn from somewhere and that might become important.

[hrc5555]

Some new analysis from f1.com

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/0/1127.html

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/0/1126.html

[hrc5555]

Plus that, Brown is expecting that losing Peter Prodromou will hurt RB. Lets hope that will be truth!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111455

[ManFromMilan]

Plus that, Brown is expecting that losing Peter Prodromou will hurt RB. Lets hope that will be truth!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111455

I wonder if Brawn is not heading to McLaren next year?

[Poltergeistes]

I wonder if Brawn is not heading to McLaren next year?

i hope not ! it's the math, when he doesn't add to us, i don't want him to add to another team, mclaren least of all.

i would be very surprised if he goes anywhere before the end of 2014, i think he has got his eyes on dom's job.

i like dom's way of working better, i mean the way he usually conducts the team, but the fact remain we haven't really had a great car that could challenge since 08.

[ManFromMilan]

i would be very surprised if he goes anywhere before the end of 2014, i think he has got his eyes on dom's job.

I sincerely hope so.

[hrc5555]

It would be nice to have Brown back.
But more inportant is that we have the fastest car next year, it would also mean Alonso is staying with us in 2015!

[Poltergeistes]

It would be nice to have Brown back.
But more inportant is that we have the fastest car next year, it would also mean Alonso is staying with us in 2015!

i really don't think fernando will leave, even if redbull stay ahead in 2014, he is ferrari's main driver, i can't see him going back to mclaren or vettel having him join them at redbull, the only place i could see him going would be mercedes, but what would be the point of that? unless mercedes is winning it's not worth the gamble, although having alot of money there, i dont doubt they would try to reunite lewis and alonso one last time at a different playground.

i think fernando is better at ferrari, he has been in his best form.

[F2002]

Perhaps the nose won't be so ugly after all:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...o-7913407.html

[Ste]

Perhaps the nose won't be so ugly after all:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...o-7913407.html

That's what I was hoping they would look like but according to a lot of people asked about the subject, they're going to look horrific at the front - like the picture posted on the previous page.

[Ken]

I like the interpretation shown in the video, who ever did it has even put a reflex in the curve of the nose section which makes it more efficient for down force.

Can I have a told you so Yet ??

[Hornet]

Perhaps the nose won't be so ugly after all:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...o-7913407.html

That's the general extension of current design to simply meet the minimum nose-tip height. It doesn't exploit another rule that governs the width of the nose. This interpretation has been around for quite some time before people realize the width rule could be exploited.

[tifosi1993]

[Jas]

WHY ARE THEY NOT TAKING OUR STAFF...WAAAA....HAHA, IM SURE THEY ARE TRYING!




Honda, to return to Formula 1 in 2015 as an engine supplier to McLaren, has begun to poach staff from rival manufacturers currently involved in the sport.

That is the claim of Mercedes’ motor sport chief Toto Wolff, who said that the Japanese marque’s quest for talented and experienced Formula 1 staff is “quite civilised” at the moment.

Wolff told Germany’s Auto Bild that Honda’s moves to poach Mercedes engineers is “quite normal”.

“We’re operating in a competitive environment, and I think everyone is looking for the best engineers,” he said.

“So it is not unexpected,” Wolff insisted. “We know what contracts are running out, and if we want to keep them, we will work on new ones in good time.”

Wolff refused to criticise the behaviour of McLaren’s 2015 engine supplier, who have been absent from the grid since the disastrous final two seasons as a full works Honda team in 2007 and 2008.

“At the moment we have the feeling that it is quite civilised,” said the Austrian, referring to Honda’s efforts to poach engineers.

“We do not have the impression that our engineers are excessively concerned. However, this could happen. They (Honda) need to put their programme together bit by bit.

“I could imagine at some stage their efforts to court staff becoming more aggressive,” added Wolff. (GMM)

[hrc5555]

I read that Caterham is doing crash test with new 2014 car this week!
Anyone knows when we are doing it?

[stefa]

I like the interpretation shown in the video, who ever did it has even put a reflex in the curve of the nose section which makes it more efficient for down force.

Can I have a told you so Yet ??

Nose looks like on Brawn car back in 2009. To be honest I like more this new 2014 look (back to the roots 1980 - 1993), than look we all used to in last 20 years with high noses.

[FrankAlfa]

I see the Air passing over the Top of the Race Car as the Most potential for Downforce. Focusing and Redirecting that air flow will be the key as always. The use Exhaust Gases will be greatly muffled now by the rules change so other means to capture downforce must be attained. I think the small wing forward of the sidepod openings used in Brasil by Ferrari is a direction the cars could take in 2014' if the rules allow it. I also think the Shape of the Sidepods with be more critical in making the required pressure zones about the race car. Focusing load will come from alernate means in the design of the race car in 2014'.

[hrc5555]

If I remember correctly Horner said that aerodynamics will not change much, you think he was bluffing?

[hrc5555]

I see the Air passing over the Top of the Race Car as the Most potential for Downforce. Focusing and Redirecting that air flow will be the key as always. The use Exhaust Gases will be greatly muffled now by the rules change so other means to capture downforce must be attained. I think the small wing forward of the sidepod openings used in Brasil by Ferrari is a direction the cars could take in 2014' if the rules allow it. I also think the Shape of the Sidepods with be more critical in making the required pressure zones about the race car. Focusing load will come from alernate means in the design of the race car in 2014'.

If I remember correctly Horner said that aerodynamics will not change much, you think he was bluffing?

[FrankAlfa]

The use of the Exhaust Gases are very limited next year. The rules move the Exhaust exit location much further away from the floor and further to the rear of the rear wing for it to be useful. The Rules have also removed the lower Wing (bridge element). The Front Wing have been much reduced as well. The nose has also been lowered. Overall grip will be obviously impotant but there are now limitations on the number of areas to exploit. I think that Engine Mapping and Engine Cooling will be the big issues next year.

[Hornet]

It is said that the new power unit will have different cooling requirement too, so may will affect the sidepod design.