Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[Alessandra]

So.....
Is testing with a current car, i.e. 2013 car, allowed or not?
Is testing Pirelli tyres in a current car, i.e.a 2013 car, allowed or not?

[Ferris]

So.....
Is testing with a current car, i.e. 2013 car, allowed or not?
Is testing Pirelli tyres in a current car, i.e.a 2013 car, allowed or not?

Based on the verdict the answer is very simple.
Testing with a current car, with your race drivers and attaining tyre data are all not allowed.
However, if you get caught you get a slap on the wrists only.

A dangerous precedent has been set. I say all the teams should run now with their 2013 cars and race drivers (leave your helmets alone) and forgo the YDT which is of much less value.

Levels the playing field, shows the FIA what a joke they are (for having this independent tribunal with no teeth) and provides Pirelli with valuable tyre data that they can't use as the teams wont allow them to change the tyres anyway and the cars for 2014 will be so different to this year.

[wisepie]

What exactly do we hope to gain from the YDT anyway, sure it gives the young drivers an opportunity to shine, but are they given any new parts/developments to test properly? How much value can be attributed to this test as far as the current car is concerned, presumably they use the 2013 cars, so we need to make it worthwhile for both car and driver, not just tooling around seeing who's quickest of the new boys.

[Alessandra]

Based on the verdict the answer is very simple.
Testing with a current car, with your race drivers and attaining tyre data are all not allowed.
However, if you get caught you get a slap on the wrists only.
.

Thank you, pretty much as I thought. What a mess, what a waste of money, what a farce.
I shall watch with interest to see which driver is getting a pat on the head from Bernie on the grid from now on. Does Hamilton play backgammon?

[Rob]

What exactly do we hope to gain from the YDT anyway, sure it gives the young drivers an opportunity to shine, but are they given any new parts/developments to test properly? How much value can be attributed to this test as far as the current car is concerned, presumably they use the 2013 cars, so we need to make it worthwhile for both car and driver, not just tooling around seeing who's quickest of the new boys.

Teams will throw some new parts on to get data collection and correlation for bring the parts in few races time. YDT is good, as can do that and give young drivers some valuable seat time. Killing 2 birds with 1 stone really. Merc being banned from it isnt (in my eyes) good enough. They broke the testing rules. End of day, they may not of gone to that test wanting to gain tyre info, but they would of done. What we got next week? Silverstone, fast corners with high D/F loads int the tyres, where Merc have strugged this year already. We will see how they manage their tyre deg.

[stefa]

I think F1 died around end of 90's, when BIG money entered and BE saw a potential to build big money bringing circus!

[Alessandra]

Teams will throw some new parts on to get data collection and correlation for bring the parts in few races time. YDT is good, as can do that and give young drivers some valuable seat time. Killing 2 birds with 1 stone really. Merc being banned from it isnt (in my eyes) good enough. They broke the testing rules. End of day, they may not of gone to that test wanting to gain tyre info, but they would of done. What we got next week? Silverstone, fast corners with high D/F loads int the tyres, where Merc have strugged this year already. We will see how they manage their tyre deg.

And,the same drivers as were involved in the Pirelli test.

[FrankAlfa]

@ stefa,

I agree! Greed for Money has replaced the "Sport" of Formula One with the "Business" of Formula One!!!!! The last 25 year has been very brutal on Formula One from "Ethical" & "Fairness" point of view. Everything has been manipulated and contrived like the sport of Pro-Wrestling. The "sport" of Fromula One Racing is now a very expensive "Sham and Farce"!

[SashAlex]

If I was SD, I'd burn the track home at Fiorano for 3 days. How come Mercedes can do it and Ferrari can't?

A bunch of cheaters fighting with our team for the title.

[Kiwi Nick]

I hear that Vince McMann has decided that his wife would make a better Il Supremo for F1 than a US Senator, so he is making a bid to buy Sir Bernard out. Forget trying to shake up the competition by manipulating tires and allowing only certain teams to test in the name of heating up the competition. Imagine how exciting F1 will be when the drivers have names like the Rock or Crystal or Merchant of Death! Punch outs in Parc Ferme will be far more exciting than tire testing. Bring it on...anything to make old F1 more exciting and 21st century! There will be no need for these silly tribunals when everything is scripted.

[Rob]

And,the same drivers as were involved in the Pirelli test.

Yes they were

[FrankAlfa]

And that's the bottom line cause "Stone Cold Bernie Eccelstone Said So"!

[Kyss4k]

Teams will throw some new parts on to get data collection and correlation for bring the parts in few races time. YDT is good, as can do that and give young drivers some valuable seat time. Killing 2 birds with 1 stone really. Merc being banned from it isnt (in my eyes) good enough. They broke the testing rules. End of day, they may not of gone to that test wanting to gain tyre info, but they would of done. What we got next week? Silverstone, fast corners with high D/F loads int the tyres, where Merc have strugged this year already. We will see how they manage their tyre deg.

Word. This penalty is more of an Exchange, where Mercedes literally swap the times of in-season test. I don't where is the punisment in that. The penalty should prevent you from doing it again and even thinking about it again. But if all that is lost for testing when you like is some other test, there will be thoughts about doing it in the future...

[Greig]

Merc had about 220 laps round Spain with the Pirelli test, with 90% 2014 tyres, while at the YDT they are not limited to 1000km's and can test anything they want with 2013 tyres which is much more rewarding I imagine.

They did 170 laps in the practice sessions in Spain (not even counting the race laps) the weekend before the test and it done them no good at all really in suddenly solving their tyre issues. I am sure they learned something about their car but I really doubt they found a magic fix in this test.

[Hornet]

To be fair to the other teams, I think Pirelli need to bring 2014 to the young driver's test. Not sure if they are planning on that anyway, but if not then the teams should insist. It may not be an advantage this year, I'd imagine it will be for next year's car. Considering that the teams are putting more focus than usual for next year's car, it would be better to let everyone get a chance to try it out.

[wisepie]

Teams will throw some new parts on to get data collection and correlation for bring the parts in few races time. YDT is good, as can do that and give young drivers some valuable seat time. Killing 2 birds with 1 stone really. Merc being banned from it isnt (in my eyes) good enough. They broke the testing rules. End of day, they may not of gone to that test wanting to gain tyre info, but they would of done. What we got next week? Silverstone, fast corners with high D/F loads int the tyres, where Merc have strugged this year already. We will see how they manage their tyre deg.

OK Rob, so we may get some useful testing of the car at the YDT but not with the drivers who need to evaluate any upgrades. All very well but how can any young driver really know what he's looking for in a car he hasn't previously driven....all they will say is that 'it felt fantastic'! As for Merc, I hope you're right and that they didn't learn too much from their illegal test. It's outrageous that they got off so lightly and we won't be the only ones trying to get their own back, I'm sure!

[sagi58]

I think the lesson we can all learn from this is that the International Tribunal that was set up to be an independent body is little more than a guard dog without any teeth!!

The other thing we should make note of is the Tribunal recognized the FIA was partially responsible through its lack of direction/conviction. In rendering this relatively lenient decision, they are insinuating that it wasn't a big deal.

Maybe to them it's not a big deal; however, we fans and the teams/sponsors who are involved probably see it differently!!

[Kyss4k]

Merc had about 220 laps round Spain with the Pirelli test, with 90% 2014 tyres, while at the YDT they are not limited to 1000km's and can test anything they want with 2013 tyres which is much more rewarding I imagine.

They did 170 laps in the practice sessions in Spain (not even counting the race laps) the weekend before the test and it done them no good at all really in suddenly solving their tyre issues. I am sure they learned something about their car but I really doubt they found a magic fix in this test.

What if the track will be wet during the talents tests? Then it would suddenly become and advantage for Merc. The penalty they god just isn't appropriate. At all.

[giodap]

What if the track will be wet during the talents tests? Then it would suddenly become and advantage for Merc. The penalty they god just isn't appropriate. At all.

Im amazed all the other teams have kept quiet since mercs penalty was handed out to them yesterday. I thought there would be an immediate outcry from the teams.

Formula 1 is big business, and to have 1 team do something this outrageous completely makes a mockery of the sport. From the big spending sponsors to the hardworking fans. WE have all been CHEATED and the FIA who we trust to uphold the rules and regulations has stuck 2 fingers up to the lot of us.

I personally would like to see all the teams go out and test as a protest against the FIA's decision

[REDARMYSOJA]

I would rather we had some respect and did not break the rules plus who is going to give us tyres to test?

Pirelli seems ready to...


'Pirelli still need representative testing'

"Of course it doesn't take away our need to be able to test in representative conditions with representative cars. We're still running round in obsolete, almost museum pieces, trying to do our job so there's still a lot of work to be done to allow us to do what we call representative testing going forward."

He added: "We all have to take note of what's happened and the reasons for it and try to do a better job going forward. That means all of us; the teams, ourselves as the supplier to the sport and also the FIA.

"So learn some lessons but, as I say, the real issue for us is we still have to find a way of performing representative testing."

It would still be in violation of the rules but I don't see much risk for the reward.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Im amazed all the other teams have kept quiet since mercs penalty was handed out to them yesterday. I thought there would be an immediate outcry from the teams.

I'm guessing most are busy setting up their own three day test with Pirelli, if Horner's response is any clue..

"We raised the protest as we wanted clarity on whether you are allowed to test in-season with a current car"

I think he got his answer.

[giodap]

I'm guessing most are busy setting up their own three day test with Pirelli, if Horner's response is any clue..




I think he got his answer.

I suppose a reprimand and court costs is well worth a three day test..... you would be mad not to

[REDARMYSOJA]

Oh, and something that seems to have been missed in all this, that apparently Red Bull has also had a tire test this season.


From the FIA tribunal verdict...

The stewards asked the Pirelli representatives about which teams have been involved in tyre testing. They answered that during 2012 it was only Ferrari and
this year Red Bull (sic)and Mercedes.

[Rob]

Red Bull, really? Horner kept banging on about Merc having secretive test and now this!!

[DIEK]

[Brakefade]

I think ALL the teams should just run their regular drivers during the "young driver" test.

[Kyss4k]

I think ALL the teams should just run their regular drivers during the "young driver" test.

Yep, they are all young after all... none of them is over 40, that's young enough.

[Katu]

that's actually so good, i cannot stop watching that

[wisepie]

I think the lesson we can all learn from this is that the International Tribunal that was set up to be an independent body is little more than a guard dog without any teeth!!

The other thing we should make note of is the Tribunal recognized the FIA was partially responsible through its lack of direction/conviction. In rendering this relatively lenient decision, they are insinuating that it wasn't a big deal.

Maybe to them it's not a big deal; however, we fans and the teams/sponsors who are involved probably see it differently!!

Absolutely right, sagi, and I think that we should now field Fernando and Felipe as well as the young drivers (do we know who they are?) for the test, at least we'll get some valid comparisons and proper feedback. No doubt it wouldn't be allowed, but hey, why take any notice of the 'powers' that be when they ignore a blatant illegality and treat it with such lenience. Shameful and insulting, to all of us.

[F2008]

I think that we should now field Fernando and Felipe as well as the young drivers (do we know who they are?) for the test

Davide Rigon would be my guess. Or at least his helmet!