Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[Greig]

I am not sure why so many seem to be wanting Ferrari and others to just start cheating.

[Suzie]

Now come on Greig, we all know that two wrongs make a right.

Oh wait.

[FrankAlfa]

I agree with Greig! Two wrong's NEVER MAKE A RIGHT! Ferrari and the other teams have tojust keep their heads down and get the most they can out of the Young Drivers Test!!!!!!!!! This is unfairness in Formula One maybe from the dramatic politics we are not seeing or hear about so much. How lknows what "Closed Door DEal" was made and it could be the Big Teams are fully aware of the Contrived Part they are to play. Maybe it is now Mercedes turn to win and few Championships for that Manufacturer to make sales off of the sport. Maybe this is what is going on????

[Kyss4k]

I disagree. By that penalty/non-penalty the type of cheating Mercedes just did was basically deemed legal. We should not be doing nothing just because it's not nice... We have to use every oportunity to gain advantage on others while not beeing cripled by penalty. FIA showed that it's possible.

[Jas]

And Ross Brawn does it again...hes had numerous occasions in the court and has got away with it, with the double diffuser, with Ferrari and its traction control, he is a cunning wise dog and good for him, the master at exploiting any weakness in rules, respect to him!!!!

[FrankAlfa]

Cheating is only ALLOWED when Bernie and the FIA Permit it! Remember that this is a "SCRIPTED" Racing Series and EVERYONE will get their turn at Glory. To "SPICE THINGS UP" is the term Bernie and the Sport used to describe what has just gone down! It is ALL FIXED, A SHAM, Etc..

[Kyss4k]

Cheating is only ALLOWED when Bernie and the FIA Permit it! Remember that this is a "SCRIPTED" Racing Series and EVERYONE will get their turn at Glory. To "SPICE THINGS UP" is the term Bernie and the Sport used to describe what has just gone down! It is ALL FIXED, A SHAM, Etc..

If it was scripted, RedBull wouldn't have won 3 titles (going nicely for them to get their 4th) in a row, when people are already sick of it.

[Hermann]

If it was scripted, RedBull wouldn't have won 3 titles (going nicely for them to get their 4th) in a row, when people are already sick of it.

You can't script everything, there is also some luck involved (or bad luck for the competition). But you can manipulate the requirements and therefore increase the possibilities of a certain scenario happening.

You might be sick of it because you are a Ferrari fan, but for Germany RB is a german team and for the UK a british one. Its still all good in Money Land.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I am not sure why so many seem to be wanting Ferrari and others to just start cheating.

I think it's mostly just venting frustration with the whole episode, and also at Mercedes trying to drag Ferrari down with them. Article 22 is one of the few clearly written rules and I think most of us saw this as a serious and blatant violation, which the tribunal seemed to agree with but let Mercedes off rather lightly. They did lose the YDT but seemed to just trade it off for 3 days with their current car and first string drivers.

It's all a bit perplexing to me but I think one reason their was some leniency was due to Charlie and the FIA not being clear when asked about the test by Mercedes. That's also a bit frustrating as in the past Charlie has given the ok on issues only to have the FIA say Charlie isn't the person to make the call and punished teams anyway, as an example Hamilton/McLaren at Spa 2008, Charlie said they were good but later we saw they weren't. The ruling on that even said it didn't matter that Charlie had given the ok.

I suppose we should be used to this by now however.

[Kyss4k]

You can't script everything, there is also some luck involved (or bad luck for the competition). But you can manipulate the requirements and therefore increase the possibilities of a certain scenario happening.

You might be sick of it because you are a Ferrari fan, but for Germany RB is a german team and for the UK a british one. Its still all good in Money Land.

I may be Ferrari fan, but the fact is, that almost in every poll about who will win/who you want to win the WDC there is Alonso on top for 2 years now. So if they would want to create some sensation and mania, they would make the way easier for Alonso (not that I want it). But I guess we can throw it on Brittons and Germans...

[FrankAlfa]

I think we have Four (4) distinct Countries that make up Formula One (Italy, England, France and Germany-Austria). I think these "Countries" have an agreement with Formula One to divide the "Headline Glory" that the sport Ganders and "Share" the proffit from this money making machine. Certain "Guaranteed" sums of money plus all kinds of marketing and social media attention that goes with the sport are being reaped from being part of the sport. I think we will see Mercedes has its share of the glory and Ferrari after that. Then the cycle starts all over again. Red Bull and Renault have shared the glory for the past 3 years and maybe Bernie is signalling that it is Mercedes turn to have the glory?

[REDARMYSOJA]

I think we have Four (4) distinct Countries that make up Formula One (Italy, England, France and Germany-Austria). I think these "Countries" have an agreement with Formula One to divide the "Headline Glory" that the sport Ganders and "Share" the proffit from this money making machine. Certain "Guaranteed" sums of money plus all kinds of marketing and social media attention that goes with the sport are being reaped from being part of the sport. I think we will see Mercedes has its share of the glory and Ferrari after that. Then the cycle starts all over again. Red Bull and Renault have shared the glory for the past 3 years and maybe Bernie is signalling that it is Mercedes turn to have the glory?

So when will it be Williams and McLaren's turn?

[FA fan]

I think it's mostly just venting frustration with the whole episode, and also at Mercedes trying to drag Ferrari down with them. Article 22 is one of the few clearly written rules and I think most of us saw this as a serious and blatant violation, which the tribunal seemed to agree with but let Mercedes off rather lightly. They did lose the YDT but seemed to just trade it off for 3 days with their current car and first string drivers.

It's all a bit perplexing to me but I think one reason their was some leniency was due to Charlie and the FIA not being clear when asked about the test by Mercedes. That's also a bit frustrating as in the past Charlie has given the ok on issues only to have the FIA say Charlie isn't the person to make the call and punished teams anyway, as an example Hamilton/McLaren at Spa 2008, Charlie said they were good but later we saw they weren't. The ruling on that even said it didn't matter that Charlie had given the ok.

I suppose we should be used to this by now however.

First it should be clear,that Charlie whenever asked about something gives his Opinion,and that's how it should be!! Mercedes and pirelli played it smartly which is like you said,really frustrating!
The least the Tribunal could have done as the most lenient punishment for breaching the rules,was since Mercedes used their car on the 2014 tyres,then Mercedes should be banned from the first test of the 2014 season,Simple.

[Suzie]

I suppose we should be used to this by now however.

Well indeed. I wasn't paying much attention to the Merc scandal to be honest, because people seem to come out of these situations relatively unscathed. The biggest scandal of recent times was probably crashgate and Flavio is still allowed in the paddock and Pat Symonds is back working in F1, so really I didn't expect any huge, severe penalties. Seems there's a huge fuss about a scandal every year or two in F1 and then once the dust settles it's all soon forgotten about for the most part, whether rightly or wrongly.

[giodap]

Does anyone know if this illegal test has set mercedes up for a head start for next season or is the advantage purely for this season?
We dont want a repeat of 2008 when we had to watch mclaren have a competitive season (lewis winning the WDC) because of all the ferrari data carried over from spygate 2007

[voiko]

How about Ferrari throw massa and alonso in the seat on their 'young driver test' and see what penalty is given to them? its rubbish they can test with professional drivers to get a complete benchmark analysis

[sagi58]

...The least the Tribunal could have done as the most lenient punishment for breaching the rules,was since Mercedes used their car on the 2014 tyres,then Mercedes should be banned from the first test of the 2014 season,Simple.

and a great idea!!

p.s. Too bad you weren't the lawyer representing Mercedes!!

[Brakefade]

I am not sure why so many seem to be wanting Ferrari and others to just start cheating.

Because if cheating only nets you minor penalties, why not? Play the game and win at all costs.

[XXX132]

The punishment for doing something that's against the rules should be worse than the benefit gained from so doing. Otherwise the rules have no real meaning and it comes down to a purely business/sporting decision. Merc got a good deal imo

[Nick Singer]

Cheating is only ALLOWED when Bernie and the FIA Permit it! Remember that this is a "SCRIPTED" Racing Series and EVERYONE will get their turn at Glory. To "SPICE THINGS UP" is the term Bernie and the Sport used to describe what has just gone down! It is ALL FIXED, A SHAM, Etc..

I don't usually do conspiracy theories but I'm a bit concerned about F1..

[Senna4Ever]

Oh, and something that seems to have been missed in all this, that apparently Red Bull has also had a tire test this season.


From the FIA tribunal verdict...

The stewards asked the Pirelli representatives about which teams have been involved in tyre testing. They answered that during 2012 it was only Ferrari and
this year Red Bull (sic) and Mercedes.

question is if they have only been asked or if RBs have also been executed such a tyre test (maybe with old car?)

Regarding

They answered that during 2012 it was only Ferrari

... do we know which car we used for this tests in 2012? Or have we also only been asked and we denied such test in 2012?
and when they took place if it happened?

[Rishu]

Formula One could face what amounts to a rebellion as a result of the FIA's lenient penalty against Mercedes after the team was found guilty of the tyre-testing affair, according to a report in the Times. Red Bull, it is claimed, are preparing to openly defy the FIA and its regulations.

The mood among a number of F1 teams is one of anger after Mercedes escaped with no more than a reprimand after staging a three-day test in Spain. That it will also miss the young drivers' test at Silverstone next month is not seen by those teams as coming close to a punishment fitting the crime.

Two teams - Red Bull and Ferrari - and understood to have made their displeasure known to Bernie Ecclestone.

The newspaper claims that Red Bull are considering an open challenge to the authority of the FIA by staging its own illegal test, exactly mirroring the actions of Mercedes, and are quite willing to risk a similar reprimand for doing so. The benefits of a private test of that kind would outweigh those gained from the young drivers' test.

While Ferrari are not expected to go as far as an illegal test, an unnamed spokesman told the Times: "How can a reprimand be enough to punish a team that struggled at the Spanish Grand Prix, tested and then won in Monaco?

"No one knew about the test, yet the tribunal does not seem to have investigated why not and what exactly went on.

"No wonder the teams are angry. They have had enough of the FIA. The threats might be empty at the moment but the fact that these conversations are taking place shows that no one is happy with [Jean] Todt or the FIA. The crunch is coming and everyone wonders when and how. Maybe this is the time."

[Dino]

'Red Bull consider boycotting YDT'

Testgate appears to be far from over with a report claiming "Red Bull are threatening to take the law into their own hands" after Mercedes' soft penalty........................................... ......

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/87...Into-Own-Hands

[Greig]

LOL Red Bull, if there is any truth in that article then I hope they do and they will face a much bigger penalty.

[Hornet]

Interesting. I think what Red Bull is saying is basically echoing what everyone have said about the outcome. Mercedes wasn't punished, Mercedes merely traded the young driver's test for a proper test session. Those newbie driver will never be as valuable as the actual race driver in testing (or even veteran test drivers). They are just learning to walk, you can't ask them how the running shoe is performing.

Mercedes punishment was as good as saying "You were caught stealing $100. As a punishment, you must return $50." So now Red Bull basically says "hey, there's $50 to be made there."

[sagi58]

'Red Bull consider boycotting YDT'

This may be the Dumb Question of the Day: Do teams pay for the Young Drivers' Test?

If they do, it just might be a good idea that all the teams boycott it!! After all, it's nothing more than a publicity gig and if Ecclestone is making money on this, it will definitely get the message across!!

p.s. Hornet, that's a great analogy comparing the young drivers and those on the grid!!!

[Kyss4k]

LOL Red Bull, if there is any truth in that article then I hope they do and they will face a much bigger penalty.

They are the only ones trying to do something about it. As much as I hate these drinks on wheels, I am with them on this one. Something has to be done.

[Kyss4k]

Interesting. I think what Red Bull is saying is basically echoing what everyone have said about the outcome. Mercedes wasn't punished, Mercedes merely traded the young driver's test for a proper test session. Those newbie driver will never be as valuable as the actual race driver in testing (or even veteran test drivers). They are just learning to walk, you can't ask them how the running shoe is performing.

Mercedes punishment was as good as saying "You were caught stealing $100. As a punishment, you must return $50." So now Red Bull basically says "hey, there's $50 to be made there."

Exactly. Great analogy btw

[Greig]

They are the only ones trying to do something about it. As much as I hate these drinks on wheels, I am with them on this one. Something has to be done.

Well you do it in the correct manner, not by cheating.

Will you support Red Bull cheating every rule or just the test rule?

Amazing to read on here support for Red Bull to cheat, after 4 years of allegations that they must be cheating.....

[sagi58]

...Mercedes punishment was as good as saying "You were caught stealing $100. As a punishment, you must return $50." So now Red Bull basically says "hey, there's $50 to be made there."

... Great analogy btw

He was on a roll, today!!