Been doing it awhile, something to do with getting temps up quicker and giving better traction.Originally Posted by Matt Pratola
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Been doing it awhile, something to do with getting temps up quicker and giving better traction.
CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE
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So end of the problems for Mercs and Bulls, we will be having a lot of issues now with tyre temperature and would be unable to have good performances on Qualy because the tires will be too cold... or too runned on if we try to do more laps in Q3, at the end we will have more degraded tires for the race....
Go Ferrari, beat them all!
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an one older analysis from Adam Cooper's F1 Blog
Photo: Mercedes with rear tyres swapped at Monaco
Further to yesterday’s story about teams swapping left and right rear tyres, here is an official photo from the AMG Mercedes website, clearly showing a right rear tyre fitted on the left of a W04 at Monaco. Note the directional arrow, and the code ‘R22′.
Did Mercedes try this technique, already used by other teams, at the Barcelona test? It would be fascinating to find out. I’ve put the question to Pirelli and am awaiting an answer – a Mercedes spokesman was unable to comment on what the team did with tyres in Spain. [Update: After reading this story Mercedes F1 contacted me to say that they have been trying tyre swapping since as early as Melbourne.]
You can read yesterday’s story here: http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/05/28/a...wapping-teams/
http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/05/29/p...ped-at-monaco/
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THE KEVLAR BELT REAR TYRES TESTED IN FREE PRACTICE IN CANADA WILL BE USED IN GERMANY
Anyone remember how we did on these tires?
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I can't remember how we did in Canada but when we tested them in Silverstone, Massa crashed because we couldn't get the tyres up to temperature. But track temperatures were low, the track was still a bit damp and they were prototype hard tyres. In Germany we'll use soft and medium, so maybe things won't be so bad.
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Hi guys. Make me wonder why we couldnīt have the same compounds of the races we had won?
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Quote Originally Posted by mirafiori View Post
Paul Hembery is a conniving, cunning cheat along with Ross Brawn and Charlie Whiting. Pirelli should sack Hembery immediately and put an Italian in charge. We need less Brits sat round the table, bending the rules for their friends.
LOL, I am glad you said it and not me!
I think many people dislike the situation Pirelli and Formula One are in and everyone knows there are specific people involved playing this VERY UNETHICAL, UNDERHANDED, VERY OFFENSIVE GAME which clearly goes against Honesty & Fair Play"! Maybe some people in certain Countries believe it is OK to Cheat and be Unethical and only seek to win at all costs??? Maybe it is a Sociological behavior from certain countries that have an additude that they are better and more supirior to others and they have the right to behave like this and be allowed to get away with it it permitted??? I say that Bernie Eccelstone, Paul Hembery, Ross Brawn and Charlie Whiting and the likes of Christian Horner are the culprits that have conspired to ruin this sport. The Folly of the game Bernie is playing out is the profound damage he and his buddies have done to this sport.
Darn Tootin'!
I'm not sure nationality plays a role in these things given all the brands and organizations involved are global anyway. I mean why pander to the British when a German signs your paycheck.
On a side note--we've messed up the world several times over because we focus too much on differences. It's 2013, we should have learned by now. I am treading on thin ice as regards forum rules, mate, so I will stop here. Respect to you. At the end of the day, it's just a motor race.
Darn Tootin'!
I believe I understand your passion and frustration but you really must keep your shirt on, Frank.
Darn Tootin'!
Pirelli has shifted blame to the teams for doing exactly this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23155008
What a mess.
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I do agree with you it's only a motor race, but for me I love this sport, and I love Ferrari, this is why I feel so passionate with this situation, the tyre test was manipulated by a few people in commanding positions, Brawn, Hembury, Whiting. We all know why the test was done, Mercedes was in trouble with tyre wear during the race, Pirelli was having issues to, Whiting was the man in the middle pleasing both parties ( his friends.) It is not right that Hembury walks up and down the pit lane giving it loads, he thinks he is a Hollywood film star, or sat round a table whispering to Mercedes personnel it is unprofessional. If you are head of Pirelli sporting division you need to keep away from other competing teams, only talk to the other competing teams under controlled meetings.I'm not sure nationality plays a role in these things given all the brands and organizations involved are global anyway. I mean why pander to the British when a German signs your paycheck.
On a side note--we've messed up the world several times over because we focus too much on differences. It's 2013, we should have learned by now. I am treading on thin ice as regards forum rules, mate, so I will stop here. Respect to you. At the end of the day, it's just a motor race.
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Well said
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Does that mean that because we are now going to have issues with our tyres, that they can now do this to help us out?? We've been playing by the rules for a few years now and we keep getting caught out because we dont exploit the loopholes, the likes of which Red Bull (Adrian Newey) and Ross Brawn do. Ross was the same when Shuey was driving for us, he got away with it at Brawn, and now again with Merc. Perhaps we need to get Ross back??? Domenicalli, perhaps to honest, not ruthless like some others in other teams. Alonso gives no quarter, drives and takes positions with little fuss, perhaps he needs complementing by some like for like Management.
Darn Tootin'!
I see your point and I understand your passion. I just think that nationalities have nothing to do with how things currently are. In your post here you make no mention of the personalities being British and yet you are still able to put forth your arguments clearly. That was all I was saying.
Everything said and done though I am as frustrated as you are, mate. Forza Ferrari?
Forza Ferrari.
Banned
In all that, it would be easy to miss Hembrey's "I told you so"!!Pirelli has shifted blame to the teams for doing exactly this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23155008
What a mess.
Hembrey/Pirelli been suggesting going back to the tire with the Kevlar belts, ever since Red Bull and Mercedes started complaining about the tires not being hard enough.
Could this be why they set up that ILLEGAL testing? To prove they needed to go back to that tire?
But, with the whole fiasco that resulted in, Pirelli made a U-turn and said they'd fixed the problem by changing the glue!! The only change that resulted in was a Blow-Out-Fest, in the very first race after that "change"!!
It would seem that Pirelli is throwing out a red herring by blaming the teams for switching tires, etc, in an effort to get out from under the microscope!!
Banned
Just to ease the tension:
That Pirelli statement in full
Posted in Motorsport, News by Sniff Petrol on Wednesday, July 3rd, 2013
A series of different causes led to the tyre failures at Silverstone:
- We didnt know the cars would be driving that fast.
- Uneven wear caused by too much turning right.
- The teams repeatedly put new wheels onto the cars too quickly.
- Excessive braking, accelerating and swerving about.
- Extremely sharp leaves on track.
- Failure to proceed to approved Pirelli stockist upon kerbing tyres
- We were asked to make tyres. Stop ing complaining when the tyres are indeed .
A FOLLOW UP STATEMENT FROM PAUL HEMBERY
Oh God, Im so sorry. Forget all that, forget I spoke. Its not you, its me.
Salut Gilles
But I guess some members here will still complainFernando Alonso believes Ferrari will not be adversely affected by the decision to change the tyres following the crisis at the British Grand Prix.
Alonso was one of six drivers to suffer failures at Silverstone last Sunday.
"We should be not too worried, because the tyres should be good for us or not worse than on any other car," he said.
"Performance is the second priority. What we need are tyres that last the race and don't endanger anyone and you are able to go home on Sunday night."
Alonso heads into Sunday's race in Germany in second place in the championship, 21 points behind leader Sebastian Vettel of Red Bull.
As well as his own failure, Alonso narrowly avoided running into the back of Sergio Perez's McLaren at 180mph when the Mexican suffered his second tyre failure of the weekend.
"It was a dangerous situation," Alonso said. "I didn't think anything special [of it], I was just trying to overtake people six laps from the end, so concentrating on performance.
"I committed to overtake Sergio on the left. I was lucky because maybe if I chose the right everything will hit my helmet.
"There are pieces of steel coming at 300km/h so it would be like a bullet or a knife so probably it will enter in the helmet and hit the outside of the helmet so it is not nice.
"Pirelli made some changes, we trust them, we think they have solved the problem.
"They probably know how to sort it. We will hopefully not have any more of these problems that are not any good for the sport."
Ferrari could potentially be adversely affected by the decision to change the tyres because their car has had trouble heating them up sufficiently for optimum performance in qualifying - and the new tyres run cooler than the previous ones.
But Alonso said: "We need to wait and see. This is the third or fourth change in the season already, some were hurting us and some were good for us.
"This is a question mark we need to see about. They changed only the rear tyres, which is less problematic for us. Normally we suffer with the front so maybe it is not affecting us so much."
Alonso said Ferrari had tried to work out why they were so far off the pace at Silverstone - he could qualify only 10th, although he recovered to finish third in the race.
"We went very deep in the analysis of Silverstone," he said, "knowing that we were not competitive and we saw some issues with the car in terms of aerodynamic characteristics in Silverstone, in set-up, maybe things that we can do better, so we will try to improve here.
Anyway I think here and Hungary [at the end of the month] will be dominated by how the tyres perform on each car.
"With the set-up we win one or two tenths, with the characteristics of aerodynamics and tyres you can lose seconds, so we need to adapt to the tyres quicker than the other teams and we will put a lot of effort into that."
Kimi Raikkonen, third in the championship, said he was hopeful his Lotus team would not be affected by the tyres.
"They have to do some changes and that's what has been decided. If it's a similar tyre to what we tried in Canada [in free practice] it actually felt better," the Finn said. "I have no concerns."
Forza Ferrari
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Jon Noble @NobleF1
Formula 1 drivers say they will boycott the German Grand Prix if there are any tyre problems over the weekend. Full story soon
Forza Jules
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Thursday 4 July at 09:35 : Jul.4 (GMM) Ferrari looks set to drop its plans to run rookies at the forthcoming young drivers test.
Previously, only drivers with little experience were eligible to test at the Silverstone session.
But the tyre-exploding British grand prix last weekend changed all that.
The FIA has reacted to the Pirelli crisis by allowing teams to run their race drivers for tyre testing.
But only rookies will be allowed to do actual development testing, amid reports the FIA will have inspectors at Silverstone to ensure compliance.
Nonetheless, Ferrari looks set to run only its race drivers Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa at Silverstone.
"Obviously," confirmed sporting director Massimo Rivola, "this test will be carried out with the actual race drivers.
"There would be no sense in trying something new with youngsters at the wheel, who do not have the necessary experience to provide the required feedback."
Lotus' Romain Grosjean is also expecting a busy test later this month.
"Apparently, I could have a lot of work to do in the young drivers test," he admitted to France's Sport24.
"Nobody wants to see tyres blowing so I know everyone in the sport is working with Pirelli to fix it," added Grosjean.
The FIA has also opened the door to the Silverstone test possibly being extended from three to four days.
Mercedes, banned from the test as a result of 'test-gate', has accepted it will not be allowed to run for the originally-scheduled three days.
But director Toto Wolff hinted the German team will push to attend, if the test is extended to a fourth day.
"Now we're being punished more, because the other teams can use their proper drivers, but we accept it for the purposes of safety.
"But if there is a fourth test day, we will fight to have this day," he revealed to Germany's Bild newspaper.
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108538
Formula 1 drivers have warned that they will boycott the German Grand Prix if there are any repeat of the Silverstone tyre problems over the weekend.
Following a meeting of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) in the Nurburgring paddock on Thursday night, the body issued a strongly worded statement making clear its unhappiness at the current situation in F1.
Although Pirelli is adamant that the Kevlar-belted tyres it has brought to the Nurburgring will not suffer a repeat of the dramatic failures that blighted the race at Silverstone, the GPDA is not fully satisfied.
It has made it clear that if there are problems with the tyres at any point during the German Grand Prix weekend, then its members will withdraw.
The statement said: "The drivers of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association wish to express their deepest concerns about the events that took place at Silverstone.
"We trust that the changes made to the tyres will have the desired results and that similar problems will not occur during the German GP weekend.
"We are ready to drive our cars to the limit, as we always do, and as it is expected by our teams, sponsors and fans.
"However, the drivers have decided that, if similar problems should manifest themselves during the German GP, we shall immediately withdraw from the event, as this avoidable problem with the tyres endangers again the lives of drivers, marshals and fans."
Four drivers suffered blow-outs during the British GP - with Pirelli blaming a combination of low tyre pressures, adverse camber, tyre swapping and kerbs for the problems.
The new Kevlar-belted tyres used in the German GP will be for this event only, with a new specification – featuring 2012 construction and '13 compounds – being used from the Hungarian Grand Prix.
Forza Jules
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Mercedes did and they went from absolute crap to winning races. Pretty much expect the rest to follow
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Crashjean talking about safety...
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Tyres reverse mounted:
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Fernando Alonso @alo_oficial
Just to make it more clear; The test in silverstone is not a "test tyre". There are only one tyre, there is nothing to be decided. #Info
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I've always thought the left and right tires were exactly the same, just being turned the other way around
Anyone knows what are the difference between both side?
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The outer sidewall is supposed to be built stronger to withstand the very high loading in the corners.I've always thought the left and right tires were exactly the same, just being turned the other way around
Anyone knows what are the difference between both side?
When the tyre is swapped left to right the stronger sidewall becomes the inner and the weaker sidewall the outer, has to take the load.
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Ah, I see. ThanksThe outer sidewall is supposed to be built stronger to withstand the very high loading in the corners.
When the tyre is swapped left to right the stronger sidewall becomes the inner and the weaker sidewall the outer, has to take the load.
Religion? Ferrari!
What the hell? So everything needed was to run the tyres non-swapped? Why did they said it AFTER they were allowed to replace the steel belting for kevlar?
IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI
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Pirelli's Motorsport Director explains the changes they have made to their 2013 tyres and tells Sky Sports F1 he is confident there will not be a repeat of the blowouts at the British GP.
You talked about the perfect storm of events at Silverstone causing the failures, but one thing you admitted was your fault was letting the teams run with the left tyres on the right and vice versa.
PH: "All the failures that we had were that [on cars with 'reverse mounting'].
It probably sounds a bit complex to people but what we had in those tyres was a metallic belt and we only had one. When it rotates in one way it goes across the cords, but when you invert it and it rotates, the other way it compresses into what looks like a pointed edge. With the Silverstone race running two to three seconds faster than last year, that increases the loads and that is what caused the failures. But we allowed them to do it so it is our responsibility."
It has been a difficult week for you.
PH: "It was tough, but the important thing is you need to react and make changes and make sure it doesn't happen again.
So you have done that, and you brought these rear-tyres with the Kevlar belt in just 72 hours. That sounds like a massive logistical operation - something like 1000 tyres coming over from Istanbul.
PH: "A few miracles. We have a good team in Istanbul and they have been working flat-out as we were in Milan where we made sure we analysed and understood everything. Looking forward, we are going to reintroduce the 2012 tyre in Hungary - that is more looking towards Spa when we get back to the really tough circuits. That is because of this big improvement with the cars - with the engines frozen it is all about the aero and making the tyres work harder."
Have you had any complaints from teams saying it was going to benefit one more than others?
PH: "You get that sort of comment but in reality I think they all know we have to do something to stop the events like we had at Silverstone and I think there is a good understanding as that is to why we did it."
And you are confident now that it will all be sorted when we get to Budapest?
PH: "We ran for over two years with that structure of tyre but we have a moving target which is one of the problems that you probably can't see from the outside - if someone comes up with something special and starts going an awful lot quicker that puts a lot more strain on our product and we have to keep up with that."
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Sometimes You gotta love this guy.German GP: Kimi Raikkonen would ignore any boycott over F1 tyres
Kimi Raikkonen says he has no intention of boycotting the German Grand Prix, despite the Grand Prix Drivers' Association's threat.
The Formula 1 drivers' body, of which Raikkonen is not a member, met on Thursday and issued a statement saying drivers would withdraw from the race if there were similar tyre problems to those suffered in the British Grand Prix.
Raikkonen, who was one of the drivers who withdrew from the 2005 United States Grand Prix following the tyre drama, says he will race on Sunday regardless of what happens.
"I haven't seen it, I heard," said Raikkonen of the GPDA statement. "I am sure it is not going to happen anyhow.
"I was once involved in 2005 and funnily enough there were some guys that didn't stop and they drove, so for sure I will race whatever happens this time."
When asked if he had been invited to the GPDA meeting, the Lotus driver said: "Yes. But I am not part of it, sometimes I go - but I hear about it as quickly as you."
Raikkonen said he had no fears about the tyres, even before Pirelli introduced the revised ones for this weekend.
The Finn agreed with Pirelli that other teams were using the tyres wrong.
"I would race. The problems are not just because of the tyres – there can be a lot of influence in why it has happened.
"We haven't had a single problem all year, so I have no feeling. [Motor racing] is dangerous anyhow, anything can happen.
"The reason why they exploded was that the teams were using them wrong. I am fine with it."
Meanwhile, it either says something or just nothing that Alonso, Schumacher and Raikkonen have reputedly spared a F1 podium on five occasions and Fernando has stood on the top step on every occasion. He's F1's first among equals. (PG)
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