Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[PURE PASSION]

I know that all this that is happening to us is frustrating but imaging with no bad things to happen to Vet and with the change of tires that they demand, and still to lose huge from us ,oohh boy it will be EPIC!!!!!

[AfterLife]

I know that all this that is happening to us is frustrating but imaging with no bad things to happen to Vet and with the change of tires that they demand, and still to lose huge from us ,oohh boy it will be EPIC!!!!!

:twisted

[REDARMYSOJA]

For me, the real question is why are we so quiet?

For the same reason Ferrari didn't say anything when the tires were not to their advantage, Ferrari are not whiners, they just get on with the job.

[Kristof_F40]

The new tyre has a kevlar belt, teams think the deformation in corners will be different, so the aerodynamical effect will also be different, maybe they will have to make some changes to the front wing and suspension. And probably extra hours in the windtunnel, for the smaller teams the extra money that they'll have to spend is an unwelcome surprise i think.

Still finding it strange that these changes will actually happen, I understand if there's some sort of structural problem with the tyres and they fail often that there's a change to overcome this problem. But these kind of changes, I mean, perhaps it won't change a thing, so just extra costs, for these costs we could have introduced ann extra test during the season like last year, if there's a change in terms of performance of teams, it's stupid and won't it make F1 look "bad"? The aero difference will mean teams need to go back to the wind tunnel, but after Canada we have had 7 of 19 races, so almost half, a lot of teams will probably start with the 2014 car, which makes these tests even more stupid.. I really don't get it.. In 2011 Vettel won Spain with 4 stops, only 13s faster than Fernando now, I don't see the point why we need to change things now.. If you look at last year, we had 7 different winners in 7 races, some people called it a lottery, now we clearly have an order, so... Whether or not it's an advantage or disadvantage for us, I just think doing so is stupid

[Massimo]

Exactly, looks like a lot of extra work for the teams, and they still haven't communicated if they consulted all the teams or not, strange situation, but it is highly unlikely that Pirelli have broken the regulations regarding tyre changes without agreement of the teams. It may be quite interesting or entertaining to find out what each team thinks it has agreed to, once they put them under their car in Canada.

[Grillo]

The more races are gone (5) the better understanding Ferrari and Lotus have on the tires. Their cars were miles away from Red Bull in a so important track like Barcelona at the Spanish GP. On the contrary, Red Bull have acknowledged they're unable to make their car more friendly with the tires and have been unable to make the rubber perform in a race day. They had no chance of winning neither the drivers nor the constructors championship. It was a fight between Ferrari and Lotus.

Asking for new tires now is a dirty move by Red Bull and changing them without a total agreement is an illegal action by Pirelli/FIA/F1. After reading a few blogs, webs and papers I think Pirelli is going to change the 2013 tires completely so they'll be like the 2012 ones. Ferrari say it won't hurt them as much but the truth is they had to battle for the titles against Lotus and now they'll have to fight against much stronger rival like Red Bull and maybe it gets Mercedes in the fight too. Is that fair and right?

This is a farce no matter the outcome.

[ferrari4life]

in 2012 our problem was we were were too gentle on the tires which is what might be helping us in 2013. So i would not be surprised too see the Ferrari go backwards..

Ferrari do seem to let go of any advantage they get without putting up much of a fight.

[Tifoso]

in 2012 our problem was we were were too gentle on the tires which is what might be helping us in 2013. So i would not be surprised too see the Ferrari go backwards..

Ferrari do seem to let go of any advantage they get without putting up much of a fight.

They seem to held on to the advantages for 1999-2004 pretty well

[Grillo]

in 2012 our problem was we were were too gentle on the tires which is what might be helping us in 2013. So i would not be surprised too see the Ferrari go backwards..

Ferrari do seem to let go of any advantage they get without putting up much of a fight.

Yep, we were unable to make the rubber work, mainly for a single lap in qualifying. All the media and fans said the problem was Ferrari's car and not Pirelli's rubber. Now, all of a sudden, Red Bull problems have an easy explanation: they have produced such a good car that the Pirelli rubber isn't good enough for them, they want a different type of tires and they want it ASAP.

Of course the Ferrari will go backwards simply because Red Bull, and maybe Mercedes, will have the upperhand with the new tires. That's hilarious. Like Mateschitz said, Formula One is no longer a racing car series but a farce in the hands of a drinks company. I wonder what Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes... are doing there. Oh well, money. Big mistake when money can buy such things.

[hrc5555]

I can see only one way that this changes can work for us.

The characteristics of our car to be easy on tires will most probably stay after the changes are made. And redbull will most probably be hard on tires like it is now. So if changes on tires will not be radical, may be we and raikkonen could be able to do 1 stop less than bulls. That would be even better situation than it is now.

[NanoTheQuickest]

Or we know we can bolt more downforce on as well and be as aggressive as the Red Cowards.

Anyway you start the season with something you finish it, this is becoming an unpleasant farce.

I think "Formula One" should be renamed something like "Formula Red Bull" while they're at it!

[Dino]

I think "Formula One" should be renamed something like "Formula Red Bull" while they're at it!

MARKO.jpg''That's a great idea Nano,I will phone Bernie right now!''

[Aberracus]

Next year we will be saying something like: We should have protested the tire changes, the championship went down from that moment.... So Stefano, if the new tires are not good for us, its all in your shoulders. You and Ferrari are not protesting, we expect that you know better, if not... we will like you to assume responsibility.

[Tifoso]

Next year we will be saying something like: We should have protested the tire changes, the championship went down from that moment.... So Stefano, if the new tires are not good for us, its all in your shoulders. You and Ferrari are not protesting, we expect that you know better, if not... we will like you to assume responsibility.

I'll say it again: is it possible that they are not protesting because they know the changes will benefit us just as much as they benefit RB?

[FerrariF60]

I'll say it again: is it possible that they are not protesting because they know the changes will benefit us just as much as they benefit RB?

no one knows mate, no one knows....only time will tell...wont' be long before canada and we'll find out IF Ferrari did NOT protest because it actually will benefit them MORE or equal to how much it will benefit Red Fools...

[Tifoso]

no one knows mate, no one knows....only time will tell...wont' be long before canada and we'll find out IF Ferrari did NOT protest because it actually will benefit them MORE or equal to how much it will benefit Red Fools...

This is my point, sir.

[shamim179]

Regardless whether the new tyres change the pecking order or not altering the performance of the tyres mid season is wrong and unfair. We are once again gambling on something that we don't know. Why not fight on the grounds of fairness, tyre FIA regulation, budget costs and affecting next years car work? The implications of gambling on that these new tyres will maintain our performance and not end up making red bull dominant is much more significant than gambling on a front wing not failing! We worked so hard up till now. We are being naive. It's like we're throwing the championship away. Even if the new tyres don't change the pecking order I still think it was a mistake to take such a big risk. Red bull are clever. They don't want to take the risk and keep the old tyres and end up losing the championship. This could cost us so badly I just don't understand why the team don't get it. If we lose everyone is gonna say how stupid we were then. Like I said even if doesn't change the pecking order I still think it is stupid and an unnecessary gamble.

[shamim179]

What's also bad is that Pirelli are being held in the neck here. They as a tyre supplier is still uncertain their contract is still yet to be renewed. Their power of negotiation is restricted because of this. This situation wouldn't have arisen like this if Bernie made up his mind earlier about extending the contract. This has happened despite repeated calls from Pirelli as to what is happening for them for next year onwards.

[Grillo]

The point is Ferrari dominated on a very demanding track like Barcelona with a 1-3. With a different tire specification the result would have been different. Harder tires are good for Massa? Why should they accept a tire change mid season when even Pirelli statement recognise there're no SAFETY concerns? Why? Why? We all know championships are won both on and off the track, remember 2011 EBD ban at Silverstone and how Red Bull and McLaren said that changing it mid season would harm their performance heavily and they'd suffer reliability issues, but they raced at Silverstone so it could have stayed like that for the remaining of the season.

The point is Red Bull are unable to solve their problems, they are in a very difficult position with Ferrari and Lotus doing a great job. Why do Ferrari want them back in the fight? Why? The championship wasn't a cakewalk for Ferrari but now it'll be a fight against Red Bull with the type of tires that better suit them and Mercedes. They should give the titles to Mr. Mateschitz and let the rest of the teams race fairly like an F1 competition should be.

[radosav]

gReed Bull

[mirafiori]

Like most people on this forum, I'm now getting concerned with the change of tyres, our next race is Monaco, Mercs will be strong, Red Bull should go well on the street circuit. Then we go to Canada, Silverstone, and so on, where the F138 would have been favourite, but due to the change of the rules, we now could be at a disadvantage, especially when we come to qualifying, this rule change could handi-cap both our qualifying pace, and race pace.

[stefa]

All this regarding tires makes me puke!

[stefa]

I am so why Ferrari and Lotus are not louder in their protest against this sudden tire change, if they are protesting at all!

[BigGar32]

Aren't we being a little hypocritical here? We seem to be slating Red Bull for their antics with Pirelli. Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?

[Senna4Ever]

Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?

Which special relation ship do we have with Pirelli?
I think you can't compare the times where we had the tire war between Michelin and Bridgstone ... as both had "their" special relationship to some teams ...

But when you only have one supplier you can't have a special relationship as this would skew the competition.

And I can't remember anyone whining about tires when we where behind Red Oxes over a second. We complaind about some aerodynamic issues but these had not been changed during the year ... as they do it now

But let's see what Monaco will bring ... and especially Canada then ...

[Hornet]

Aren't we being a little hypocritical here? We seem to be slating Red Bull for their antics with Pirelli. Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?

LOL, you do realize back then there was a tire war going on. Both Bridgestone and Mics were trying to win and Ferrari was Bridgestone's best bet. The teams have their choice so it's not about Ferrari making noise when things wasn't going their way. In fact when Ferrari did not win the title because of Bridgestone falling behind Mics, Ferrari still refused to blame the tire company and insisted that they win and lose together. But that era is long over, and it has absolutely no similarity to the current situation where Pirelli is NOT winning any title. Pirelli is the sole tire supplier.

Hell if Ferrari wanted to acted like Red Bull, they could have done it in Silverstone during the blown diffuser controversy and voted NO to retaining the old engine mapping rules for the rest of the season. To refresh your memory, all teams were given prior notice months before that by Silverstone, they had to change to the new engine mapping rules. No one said anything at that time. Not until Silverstone, that Red Bull and Renault went crying to the stewards about it. So much that the FIA proposed they revert to the old engine mapping first if all teams agree to it. Ferrari could have said no and screw them over, but we did not.

[ManFromMilan]

no one knows mate, no one knows....only time will tell...wont' be long before canada and we'll find out IF Ferrari did NOT protest because it actually will benefit them MORE or equal to how much it will benefit Red Fools...

That is the point. Maybe the the change would benefit us too. Maybe there is a range of setup within our car that could allow us to take advantage of the tires being updated. Who knows how and how much the compounds would actually change in the end.

It does not sound like Pirelli wants to appease Red Fool Racing. They just don't want rubber tearing of the carcass. They don't want to look bad.

Anyway, with all the talking of being seconds slower and what not. I cannot pick up that a race lap is slower and I doubt that you actually would unless you go out and stopwatch check every car and lap to a predetermined benchmark time. The cars looked fast in Spain and it was an exciting racing.

[mirafiori]

Aren't we being a little hypocritical here? We seem to be slating Red Bull for their antics with Pirelli. Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?

Are you trying to wind us up, Ferrari over the last 10 years has been the most politicly correct team in formula 1. That is why a lot of us are saying, we should protest over the rule change part way through the season. Unless our team back at Maranello are confident the change in tyre compound wont hurt us.

[Aberracus]

And I think that confidence is naive.... Pirelli don't want to favor any team, but how can they be sure? They don't. Have a car to test the tires... They don't know exactly if what they are going to do will be good for RB and bad for Lotus and us.

Guys we have tires now and they are part of this championship, not protesting a change is suicidical and we are risking to throw 2013 out of the window.

[Greig]

Aren't we being a little hypocritical here? We seem to be slating Red Bull for their antics with Pirelli. Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?

Not really as McLaren and Williams had special relationships with Michelin, and off course in a tyre war it's not the same as a controlled single tyre format.