Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[Hornet]

This "judgement" says more about the state of the FIA than Mercedes and Pirelli.

The FIA fudges the clarity of its own rules and lets the other two participants off with a "Reprimand and shared costs ".

The FIA then allows itself to be blackmailed with threats opf "If the punishments are too severe we will leave the sport".

It is total capitulation to threat and a complete disregard of their own rules and standards, which in any other sphere or organisation makes them unfit to govern.

A few years ago there was a threat by some teams to set up their own racing series away from the grasp of the FIA maybe its time that idea was reawakened and implemented.

Disgusted from Belfast. (yea I know I am getting old )

Yeah, kind of embarrassing that after Pirelli and Mercedes threatening this and that, they get their way. The fact that Mercedes chose to not appeal showed that they knew they were wrong and they are glad to get away lightly with it.

[mirafiori]

Today I feel sad, it is like when we lost the championship at the last corner in Brazil 2008, like most people I did not want Mercedes thrown out, just wanted a fair punishment. We and the other Teams should of been offered a 3 day test, maybe this will still happen, because the other teams will not be happy with this outcome. Mercedes have committed a sporting crime, instead of being sent to jail, they have been given a room at the RITZ HOTEL.

[Senna4Ever]

I'm wondering how long it will take until Ferrari will respond to this verdict and especially how this reaction will be ...
This can't be left over without no strict commend ...

Otherwise I bet we will hear the rumours that Ferrari says nothing because Merc or Pirelli unveiled something that brought us into dark light and therefore also FIA as they stopped the investigations against Ferrari too early ... which lead to this horse trade ...

[Tony]

I understand that Mercedes got off the hook, but let's be honest guys, they're still behind Ferrari in terms of race pace.... I don't think decision will have much effect on both RBR and Ferrari to be quite honest....

Ferrari should use this topic however to force more in-season testing....

[wisepie]

I understand that Mercedes got off the hook, but let's be honest guys, they're still behind Ferrari in terms of race pace.... I don't think decision will have much effect on both RBR and Ferrari to be quite honest....

Ferrari should use this topic however to force more in-season testing....

That's not the point, Tony, the whole thing makes a complete mockery of rules, Merc and Pirelli blatantly had this test in the knowledge that it was illegal, used their team drivers in disguise, and then get away with it as if it was acceptable behaviour. Merc may still not have the race pace and I sincerely hope that Ferrari and Red Bull and any other team management demand an equal opportunity. Pathetic waste of a tribunal at all, and a smack in the face for us fans of F1.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I'm wondering how long it will take until Ferrari will respond to this verdict and especially how this reaction will be ...

The best response from Ferrari would be to have Alonso and Massa burning up the track at Fiorano.

We see what the punishment will be, a reprimand and no young driver test, so what.

[Katu]

The best response from Ferrari would be to have Alonso and Massa burning up the track at Fiorano.

We see what the punishment will be, a reprimand and no young driver test, so what.

totally agree

[Rob]

The Horse Whisperer – Crime and Punishment (but make it a light one)
Officially, Ferrari has never been in the habit of commenting on verdicts.

However, as you all know, the Horse Whisperer is a free spirit who sums up the mood of millions of fans, especially when certain incidents get him worked up.

Have you ever faced accusations in a tribunal? It’s never happened to the Whisperer thank goodness, but it can’t be pleasant. But today we learned, that even if one is guilty and in this case that is an indisputable and verified fact, there is always a way of muddling through as best one can. One only has to suggest to the judge what the penalty should be and even better, why not make it something light like a rap across the knuckles.

It is somewhat perplexing to say the least to see that the guilty party can get away virtually scot free for having derived “an unfair sporting advantage.” Don’t tell me that testing for three days on your own at the Catalunya circuit is the same as doing so with nine other teams at Silverstone with a host of young hopefuls at the wheel, in an area where the weather can still be changeable even in the height of summer. And what if this whole incident had taken place after the young drier test, what would have been the penalty then? Would they have been forbidden from holding an end of year dinner?

In one sense then, it’s a bit like when a ghost goal is scored against you and isn’t disallowed and then your opponents are incorrectly awarded a penalty, which has no effect on the result, incidents which both the English and the Germans ought to remember well, don’t you think? It’s not something that can be remedied with a penalty in the next game…

The way things are going in Formula 1 at the moment is becoming boring: you make a mistake, you race with an illegal component, but then you are told to just change it for the next race and we’ve seen what we’ve seen…

All this reminds the Whisperer that if he ever finds himself running a Formula 1 team in the near future and that he gets off to a difficult start to the season, then all it needs is to organise a nice week of testing at the right moment and then maybe have to skip a later session, by which time, everything could be done and dusted. What do you reckon?

PS: Oh, and to those who jabber on about transparency and credibility, the Whisperer would remind them that the rules are very clear: you cannot test with a car from the current year. With those that are at least two years old, you can run when you like, where you like, with any driver you like, dressed how you like, inviting who you like.

[Tony]

That's not the point, Tony, the whole thing makes a complete mockery of rules, Merc and Pirelli blatantly had this test in the knowledge that it was illegal, used their team drivers in disguise, and then get away with it as if it was acceptable behaviour. Merc may still not have the race pace and I sincerely hope that Ferrari and Red Bull and any other team management demand an equal opportunity. Pathetic waste of a tribunal at all, and a smack in the face for us fans of F1.

Like I said, I understand they got off the hook, but the rules have always been a touch of a mockery in F1 anyway.... Red Bull has been allowed to get away with a lot the last 3 years and to be honest, even if Mercedes wins both titles this year I'll be happy, as long as it's not the soft drink company....

[GamD]

Like I said, I understand they got off the hook, but the rules have always been a touch of a mockery in F1 anyway.... Red Bull has been allowed to get away with a lot the last 3 years and to be honest, even if Mercedes wins both titles this year I'll be happy, as long as it's not the soft drink company....

I think people also forgot how Ferrari got rid of the Team Orders, and if what Merc did brings back more testing, will we really still be unhappy?
I also think this raises an issue with pitstop/tyres. The whole race is based around tyres, even the car designs are being more pushed towards tyres

[Hornet]

I think people also forgot how Ferrari got rid of the Team Orders, and if what Merc did brings back more testing, will we really still be unhappy?
I also think this raises an issue with pitstop/tyres. The whole race is based around tyres, even the car designs are being more pushed towards tyres

Team orders was a completely different thing. Everyone and their brother knew that team orders can never be outlawed, you can't tell a team not to be a team. The rule was just there to tell the team not to be so public about it, because anyone with an ounce of common sense know that a team will work as a team (why the hell do we call them a team otherwise). Team order was continued being use by everyone, don't single out Ferrari.

There's nothing wrong with tires and pit stops. Pit stop is all part of motor racing. Tires of course they are important, they are the only thing that translate all the million dollar technology into actual kinetic energy that makes the car move. They will always be one of the major focus in any car design.

Mercedes voluntarily broke the rule, a rule that's in place to prevent any team from gaining unfair competitive edge over the others. They knew the rules clear enough to tell that it was illegal. They tried to get away with it, and apparently they manged with just a slap on the wrist.

[Rob]

They got away very very lightly.

But, this does bring to the front that we (all teams, Pirelli) need more testing. Pirelli need 2013 cars to work on this years tyres and get head start on next year. As long as ALL teams now get the 3 day test that Merc has had. This does help F1 in away, as this highlights that testing is still very very important during the season.

[GamD]

Team orders was a completely different thing. Everyone and their brother knew that team orders can never be outlawed, you can't tell a team not to be a team. The rule was just there to tell the team not to be so public about it, because anyone with an ounce of common sense know that a team will work as a team (why the hell do we call them a team otherwise). Team order was continued being use by everyone, don't single out Ferrari.

There's nothing wrong with tires and pit stops. Pit stop is all part of motor racing. Tires of course they are important, they are the only thing that translate all the million dollar technology into actual kinetic energy that makes the car move. They will always be one of the major focus in any car design.

Mercedes voluntarily broke the rule, a rule that's in place to prevent any team from gaining unfair competitive edge over the others. They knew the rules clear enough to tell that it was illegal. They tried to get away with it, and apparently they manged with just a slap on the wrist.

We all know how the team orders worked and yet still it was a "rule" a rule which was broken for the better. The pitstop and tyres I think you miss understood, have the pitsstops like they used to be and and tyres that don't just die.

the main reason we have pitstops now is to change tyres, which only last a few laps based on the design of a car, which can hardly be tested.

I doubt FIA is going to openly admit the mistakes they made with the communications of the "test"

If what come out of this is that there would be more testing I doubt you would be complaining, the " media" days every team have are just a undercover testing day.

[Kyss4k]

They got away very very lightly.

Oh my god you would't believe how many people are saying the punishment is adequate... Sadly not just Merc fans.

[Liscia]

I really wasn't expecting much of a penalty and the FIA delivered with the leniency that
I foresaw:( We're still the number 2 (at least) team this year and ahead of Benz and Lotus
for sure, neither of whom have the development legs that Ferrari delivers year after year.
Let's lock them ALL out from Silverstone onwards!!!!

[Rob]

Oh my god you would't believe how many people are saying the punishment is adequate... Sadly not just Merc fans.

[Senna4Ever]

The best response from Ferrari would be to have Alonso and Massa burning up the track at Fiorano.

We see what the punishment will be, a reprimand and no young driver test, so what.

Yes sir ...
I would offer €100,-- transferred to an account as my "portion" for the "third" Ferrari would have to pay to the FIA clown tribunal

[Nero Horse]

So...for what day is Ferrari's full test session scheduled? Let's just go out on Fiorano now and test 24/7. There obviously ain't no rules in F1, so who cares! I mean seriously, who cares about some damn reprimand? It's a joke, the whole FIA is nothing but a big joke I'm definitely waiting for Ferrari testing days on Fiorano now.

The best response from Ferrari to this ridiculous fiasco would not be any verbal statement from Luca or anyone else, but they should just quietly roll out two F138 tomorrow and get on with the testing.

[Kyss4k]

Yep, I just had a "exchange of an arguments" with 2 or 3 of them on Czech forum. Almost every argument I gave them was invalid to them. I'm still quite shocked...

[Greig]

TBH losing the young driver test is a pretty big penalty, I am not sure what people were expecting? for Merc to be thrown out?

[Brakefade]

TBH losing the young driver test is a pretty big penalty, I am not sure what people were expecting? for Merc to be thrown out?

At least a one race ban, points gained after the illegal test to be removed, and banned from the young driver test. OR force Pirelli to run another test with the 2014 tyres, and every team would be invited, and the 2013 car would be allowed with the current drivers.

[Kyss4k]

At least a one race ban, points gained after the illegal test to be removed, and banned from the young driver test. OR force Pirelli to run another test with the 2014 tyres, and every team would be invited, and the 2013 car would be allowed with the current drivers.

I believe that is possible to do, isn't it? We just need all the teams to agree to do the test with Pirelli and it should be legal. The problem is, they won't have the track for themselves if they run together.

[REDARMYSOJA]

TBH losing the young driver test is a pretty big penalty, I am not sure what people were expecting? for Merc to be thrown out?

I expected something that would discourage other teams from doing the same, namely a WCC points loss. I think Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and others would gladly exchange a three day rookie test for a three day Pirelli test with current drivers in this season's car. I don't know what's to stop them from doing so now.

[FrankAlfa]

Why doesn't Ferrari have Alonso, Massa & Kobashi as their driver during the "young" driver's test???? Hey, "Young" is a Relative thing! It would be no different to what Mercedes did! Formula One is a JOKE!!!!!!!

[theforce]

Horner seemed to accept Merc's worthless penalty with his tail between his legs knowing he can't raise his voice too much as they have gotten away with rotten things before. Meanwhile Merc is sitting back laughing at the circus, oops, meant F1.

Over the past few years Ferrari have become the 'tamed Grosjean' of F1 teams...its about time we go break some so called 'Rules'; as SLJ would say, "enough is enough, I've had it with these...."

[Hornet]

TBH losing the young driver test is a pretty big penalty, I am not sure what people were expecting? for Merc to be thrown out?

They should at least strip off Mercedes WCC points and exclude them from the WCC title, as this was a serious breach of regulations. That was the penalty for McLaren when they were found guilty of illegally possessing and keeping Ferrari's technical info during the 2007 spygate (in addition to 100million fine). IIRC, the reason was fraudulent sporting advantage for McLaren.

This illegal 1000km test pretty much results in the same thing, illegal advantage for Mercedes. Yet they got off far lighter than McLaren did.

[yz2006]

this case shows who has the true power in F1 political inner cycle.. Red Bull's illegal components are sort of 'innovation', while Merc's test is a crude cheating!

[Kyss4k]

Well, we can try to test the **** out of our car now and then just threaten with leaving the F1 if they will penilase us. It seems Merc did that and it worked.

[Greig]

Well, we can try to test the **** out of our car now and then just threaten with leaving the F1 if they will penilase us. It seems Merc did that and it worked.

I would rather we had some respect and did not break the rules plus who is going to give us tyres to test?

[Rosso Corsa]

TBH losing the young driver test is a pretty big penalty, I am not sure what people were expecting? for Merc to be thrown out?

I expected the FIA to be meek, and that's what F1 got. But yes, I hoped Mercedes would have been thrown out. I anticipate more cheating as a result of this verdict, which will not be good for F1.