Would be very different situations though so why would the penalty need to be the same?Originally Posted by aroutis
Salut Gilles
Would be very different situations though so why would the penalty need to be the same?
Forza Ferrari
Religion? Ferrari!
What would be different about it?
IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI
Salut Gilles
Quite a lot, but I really can't be bothered as Red Bull won't be doing it.
Forza Ferrari
Full Member
Well Mercedes got off as they acted in "Good Will" as they asked the FIA for permission and it was allegedly granted.
If Red Bull tried to do it, number one Pirelli wouldn't agree after all that has happened, and second, the FIA would be sure not to F*** up again.
Forza Ferrari!!
Religion? Ferrari!
Yey, they won't have a balls to do that... Would be funny though.
IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI
Banned
Not sure how you assumed that I suggested the YDT is not worthwhile??
What I asked was if there wasn't something between what the Mercedes lawyer
suggested and something NOT so harsh that Mercedes would choose to leave F1.
Something in between would have made the Tribunal look less easily manipulated
and influenced by the suggestion of the legal counsel of the accused.
And, I can bet that Mercedes will have gleaned more information from their testing
than Ferrari will collect from the YDT. I don't believe the two are interchangeable
because on the one hand you have current F1 drivers with F1 experience in the car
they are currently driving versus Young Drivers (albeit talented and experienced at
their level) driving a car they aren't currently driving, giving feedback on upgraded
parts, when they haven't driven with the "old" parts.
Full Member
I doubt Mercedes would intentionally keep the test a secret even obscuring the driver's identity had they truly believed the test was legal. It takes a lot of effort to keep the test a secret, and they succeeded.
They knew it was illegal and yet went ahead with it without seeking further confirmation.
Salut Gilles
Ok thenFerrari will be using planned upgrades with 2013 tyres at the YDT, Merc ran 90% 2014 tyres with no updates on the car.
I can see why you would come to such a conclusion.....and the young drivers off course can experience the old parts before they put anything new on the car. Driver feedback is all well and good, but it's the data the engineers get from the car being on track that is better. So again I fail to see why you are dismissing the YDT as nothing worthwhile to the teams, when it clearly is a very valuable test to have for them.
Testing is not a all out flat out kind of thing, consistent laps are much more valuable which is why Luca Badoer was such a great test driver, not very quick but that did not matter in testing.
Forza Ferrari
Banned
I have to admit to being more sceptical than you are. I'm not completely convinced Mercedes/Pirelli were being so altruistic. In fact, I'm not completely convinced that we've heard the "whole" truth about that session. Do I know that for a fact? No! Then, again, does anyone (other than "some people" at Mercedes/Pirelli) know the facts?Ok then
Tifoso since Gilles!
I agree, nobody knows, but I do think Mercedes were limited and couldn't do whatever they wanted.
For example, I cannot imagine Mercedes doing constant speed runs with a car full of sensors to evaluate new aero during that test....
Banned
I'm sure you're right!!
Do we know if Pirelli is sharing the data they sent to Mercedes, with anyone else?
Full Member
Thursday 27 June at 16:35 : Jun.27 (GMM) In the fallout of the 'test-gate' scandal, F1's governing body has moved to clean up its procedures regarding tyre testing.
While Mercedes was banned from the forthcoming young driver test and Pirelli reprimanded over their secret Barcelona test in May, the FIA also resolved to ensure its own "control of the testings is strengthened".
Indeed, as Germany's Auto Motor und Sport reported on Thursday, Pirelli has not been banned from tyre testing with F1 teams -- even if 2013 cars are used.
But a number of strict conditions now apply and have been made clear to the teams, correspondent Michael Schmidt said.
"One condition is that the (test) team and Pirelli have to prove that the test is organised, carried out and paid for by Pirelli.
"Another is that Pirelli needs to send a precise test plan to the FIA, a fortnight before the test is to take place. If the FIA accepts it, they will send an observer to the site.
"The other teams cannot refuse the test, but they can send observers, and the test and tyre data must remain in the possession of Pirelli and not be communicated to the test team," he added
Moderatore
Who are the Ferrari's drivers for the YDT this year? Anyone know?
Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.
Avanti Fer, Avanti !
May be Antonio Fuoco?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Driver_Academy
Naughty Word Mod
Red Bull seeks Pirelli test permission after Mercedes verdict
By Jonathan Noble Saturday, June 29th 2013, 09:36 GMT
Red Bull has requested formal clarification from the FIA about whether it is now free to test a 2011, or even a 2013 Formula 1 car, following the Mercedes test affair.
Amid a renewed focus on testing restrictions following the FIA International Tribunal hearing into Mercedes' running of its current car after the Spanish Grand Prix, Red Bull wants to know more about what is and is not allowed.
AUTOSPORT has learned that in response to a request from the FIA for teams to now give formal notification of test plans, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has written to F1 race director Charlie Whiting asking for further details about testing limitations.
In the letter, Horner has asked for Whiting to specify whether there are circumstances under which Red Bull could participate in a Pirelli test with its 2013 car if certain conditions were met - as were originally laid down to Mercedes in correspondence with the FIA prior to its own test.
He also questions the exact procedures for approving the tests, as well as whether or not the team needs formal approval from the FIA's World Motor Sport Council, as was suggested in the Tribunal hearing.
Furthermore, in light of it emerging that Ferrari had conducted two Pirelli tests – one in 2012 and one before this year's Spanish Grand Prix – with full FIA approval, Red Bull wants to know if it too can run a 2011 car at tracks shortly before grands prix are due to take place.
In particular, it wants the FIA to clarify whether an unlimited mileage test at a venue prior to it holding a grand prix, conducted by race drivers, using a 2011 car that 'conforms substantially' with the current rules, is OK.
This is in reference to Article 22.1 that outlaws testing undertaken by a competitor with a car from the current year or previous year, as well as those that 'conform substantially' with the current technical regulations.
Red Bull sources have indicated that the letter is not an attempt to challenge the recent ruling – or open the way for it to conduct 2011 car tests before each grand prix – but simply a way to clarify what is and is not allowed so it knows the situation.
PIRELLI PLANNING MORE TESTS
F1 tyre supplier Pirelli has two further private tests planned over the next month as part of its preparation process for 2014, and has invited all teams to take part if they wish to do so.
Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery said that there had not been much interest from teams in the test, while further clarifications were sought from the FIA.
"There hasn't been a huge take up – although there are a couple of teams that have asked," he said.
"There are some clarifications from the FIA, Red Bull being one of them, asking clarification on what terms you could run and what car you could run - and does it have to go to the WMSC to get approval.
"We are all asking for clarification about how that can happen.
"In two weeks' time we are in Paul Ricard and two weeks after that we are in Barcelona. All the teams are invited to that – either to do 1000km, which nobody is coming to, or send an observer, which a few teams might send somebody along to."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108390
CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE
Full Member
Steel or Kevlar?
Full Member
Why has nobody mentioned mercedes very minimal drop off in tyre deg over a long stint in practice? And more importantly, do the teams not care that suddenly mercedes race pace has improved. Im at silverstone this weekend, and it feels like im not watching a sport. Feels like im watching 10 teams have a race against one team who are aloud to test.......
Full Member
I don't like what Pirelli is doing currently, they are so hell bent on making the tires harder. Because Lotus opposed the change to make all compound harder, Pirelli instead bring the hard compound when it should be medium. In Hungary, it's hards too. That's crazy. Hard compound for Hungary, Paul must be on some really strong stuff when he decided that.
Full Member
Yeah you have got to feel sorry for ferrari and lotus. Build a car thats easy on the tyres and then get shafted by pirelli..... cheers thenI don't like what Pirelli is doing currently, they are so hell bent on making the tires harder. Because Lotus opposed the change to make all compound harder, Pirelli instead bring the hard compound when it should be medium. In Hungary, it's hards too. That's crazy. Hard compound for Hungary, Paul must be on some really strong stuff when he decided that.
Banned
I think he may have been at the factory when the "new glue" was being added to the tire compound!!I don't like what Pirelli is doing currently, they are so hell bent on making the tires harder. Because Lotus opposed the change to make all compound harder, Pirelli instead bring the hard compound when it should be medium. In Hungary, it's hards too. That's crazy. Hard compound for Hungary, Paul must be on some really strong stuff when he decided that.
Full Member
That would explain a lot of Pirelli's decision this year
Full Member
Hembrey is man without a spine. A little bit of pressure from Red Bull and Mercedes and this man has single handedly managed to sway the championship the opposite way.
The man who has also manages to frustrate is Stefano, our TP. Why hasn't he said anything with regard to the illegal tyre test that Mercedes took part in? Does he have any influence whatsoever in the paddock? He and Whitmarsh are as bad as eachother, weak and uninspiring.
"The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari
Banned
And why isn´t Stefano joining Lotus and put pressure on Pirelli as well and display their thoughts on the tirechoices? If RB and Merc put pressure we need to put pressure in the oposite direction....
Banned
It was one of the possible explanations I came up with; but, the others couldn't be printed!!
That would explain a lot of Pirelli's decision this year
All kidding aside, I'd like to hear what the FIA/Pirelli/Mercedes have to say about how there
wasn't "much" to be gained from the 1000km of ILLEGAL testing!!
I'd like to hear how they can justify that missing out on the Young Drivers' Testing can even
possibly be considered a trade-off after watching this qualifying session!!
I'd like to understand how Ferrari is expected to play fair and not join Red Bull in boycotting
that particular test and finding a LEGAL way to test WITH this year's tires, which seem to
have changed since that testing session with Mercedes!!
I realize I don't have any proof; but, do we need anything more than Alonso qualifying 10th
and Massa 12th at a track that we all "thought" was going to be a good one for us??
TEST AWAY, I SAY... however, that can be done!!!
Full Member
Seems to me that Pirelli are favouring some teams.. and not remaining impartial as they should!
Full Member
It could not be any clearer than that.
We need to play the political mind game too and bring the game back to us. We are too nice nowadays, we want to play clean when everybody else plays dirty and by doing so they have brought the game to them. The two teams that designed winning cars this winter got shafted basically, the game is now accommodating the ones who did not design the right cars, tire friendly cars.
We have been outplayed outsmarted, beaten at a game Ferrari use to be so good at.
"I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.
Full Member
Cool weather, hard compounds - easy to figure the teams that suffer (us, Lotus). It should be a bit warmer tomorrow, but that doesn't help much as the tyres will last way too long on all cars. Pirelli is handing the championships on a platter to RBR.
Banned
Full Member
I can't believe no teams said anything about Hungaroring tire choice. Bringing hard tires to Hungaroring is dumb beyond believe.
Pirelli have shown their inability to remain neutral. The tires should not have changed mid season, but Pirelli insist on changing it despite not getting the approval of all teams. What they are doing now is intentionally bringing harder tires than necessary. Is F1 seriously accepting this behavior?
How can F1 have a sole tire supplier who is not able to remain neutral? Pirelli is no longer fit to supply F1, IMO. If we want to keep Pirelli, fine, we'll have to bring back the tire war because Pirelli obviously have a weird obsession for Mercedes and Red Bull, we cannot trust them to supply tires for other teams.
Ferrari Affiliate
For me Luca should just come out and just intervene. As long as this mockery continues F1 really is just a joke.
We can just close our eyes and say all is fine, but really, is this the F1 we want?
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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