You can say that again. Sickening.Originally Posted by Suzie
Moderatore
You can say that again. Sickening.
Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.
Salut Gilles
Probably to stop a driver/marshall/fan being injured or worse due to a tyre falling apart, I would guess.
Forza Ferrari
Full Member
Red Bull boss Christian Horner believes Fernando Alonso is lucky to be alive after the Ferrari driver narrowly missed the pieces of debris that flew off Sergio Perez's car after the McLaren driver's left rear tyre exploded on the Hangar Straight at Silverstone.
Horner's comments came after Lewis Hamilton, Ferrari's Felipe Massa, Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne and Perez all suffered left rear failures during the British Grand Prix on Sunday, which raised questions about driver's safety during high-speed tyre blow-outs.
"We need to think of driver safety. Make no mistake about it, Alonso is a very lucky boy to be going home," Horner told BBC Radio 5 Live.
"It's not right. Forget performance; forget who has an advantage and who doesn't. The sport has to be safe. The most important thing is driver safety. I'm surprised they didn't stop the race in many respects.
"It's a safety issue now."
Alonso was in position to pass Perez in the moments before the Mexican's tyre burst. The two-time world champion avoided the pieces of debris flying off the McLaren and was fortunate not to be hit by pieces of rubber and metal.
"That one with Sergio I was so scared and so lucky because I missed the contact by one centimetre," the Spaniard commented after the race.
Earlier, Formula One race director Charlie Whiting said that he nearly red flagged the race because of safety concerns, while Jean Todt demanded Pirelli to find a solution during the Sporting Working Group meeting scheduled for Wednesday.
"It was quite close to being red-flagged," Whiting said earlier this week.
"It did occur to me to do that. We haven't seen a failure like this before; we have seen other types of failure - and that is what has been addressed. So we need to analyse it very carefully to see if we can establish the cause.
"Pirelli have got to analyse it, to try and find the cause," he continued.
"We need to make decisions earlier than Wednesday."
F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone confirmed on Monday that the FIA will allow Pirelli to conduct two additional three-day tests in order to come to the bottom of the delamination problems that have plagued the season so far.
"They (Pirelli) have complained in the past when these tyres have delaminated - which is certainly nothing to do with it (what happened at Silverstone on Sunday)," Ecclestone said.
"They've said they'd like to sort it out, but they don't have a chance to do any testing because of these silly restrictions we have. But I spoke to Jean Todt over the weekend and he has said 'Let them test'.
"So he has allowed them to run two three-day tests between now and... well, when they want, to try to do something for next year, as well as this year, so that's exactly what's going to happen."
Pirelli supplied medium and hard tyres for Silverstone, which were also used in Malaysia, Bahrain and Spain earlier in the season.
In Bahrain, Hamilton and Massa suffered blow-outs too, although they differed from those suffered at Silverstone.
Full Member
out of curiosity, where are Pirelli's F1 tyres manufactured?
Thank you Xubuntu
stop driving would safe fuel too if You want it to see it that way .... or?
Nobody drives nobody get hurt ...
You know how it was meant sir in focus of who will benefit of this step and how it seems that they put it stone by stone that it came that way ....
If these tires are same spec than in Barcelona or many other races before why suddenly the mass of problems with tires?
Full Member
Not sure,but maybe at their headquarters in Italy,Milan
Full Member
Well it's manufactured in turkey,izmit:)
Salut Gilles
We did not really suck on 2012 tyres anyway, we are not doing all that great right now either.
Who will benefit from tyres that don't randomly explode and could cause serious injury? I guess the sport will benefit as well as those who drive the cars and attend races, or do we want to see races stopped?
Forza Ferrari
Ferrari Lover
Hero's come and go, but legends never die!
Full Member
Surely there's got to be a quality control issue, that has to be part of the problem? of course I wouldn't expect Pirelli to admit it outright.
Thank you Xubuntu
maybe those whom asked for it a several weeks ago and where Ferrari (and two other teams) said no by good reason? And I don't think that these teams (incl. Ferrari) said no to the change by knowing the danger it will bring.
Maybe a team which might have been able to test such rear tire with kevlar with their 1st row drivers?
But hell you're right: most important safety is back first, stabilize the competition and let see it as a great chance too and maybe they fit perfectly to our car (as we know we have perfect instruments to react fast to change the car for the tires needs)
Full Member
Safety first. I don't want anymore fatalities in this sport, be it drivers, mechanics, stewards or anyone else. After that we can start bickering about who gained from all this.
Registered User
I'd rather lose knowing that our drivers (and the others) are safe, than have the chance to win but the risk of something going horribly wrong.
Forza Jules
Moderatore
Hopefully this tire debacle that started a couple of season's ago reached it's full insanity at Silverstone, and things will get better now.
Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.
Moderatore
Pirelli seemed to indicate this was an entirely new problem.... I hope they can manage this situation in such a way that creates no unfair advantage for any team....
Sadly, I'm certain I'm dreaming....
Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...
Religion? Ferrari!
They can't (or they don't want to). They even said at the beginning of the season, that if people would want to change the tyres, certain teams (and they mentioned Red Bull) would be hugely advantaged...
IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI
Ferrari Forever!!!
Christian Horner:I don't agree with Horner on many things, but I completely agree with this statement. Nobody wants to see tragic accidents with drivers or track marshals getting seriously injured or killed. So something needs to be changed to prevent that from happening, cause the tyres teams used in Silverstone were ticking time-bombs and such a situation is completely unacceptable in the highest level of motor racing."It's not right. Forget performance; forget who has an advantage and who doesn't. The sport has to be safe. The most important thing is driver safety."
KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI
Banned
I'm going to admit to being completely cynical as I write this:
There have been "accusations" that Pirelli did change the compounds for this race, without unanimous consent from all teams. The only way Pirelli could arbitrarily change the composition of the tires without unanimous consent was if there was a safety issue involved. Well, Pirelli knew that Ferrari, Lotus and Force India would not give their blessing to bringing back the harder tire because their respective cars were designed to work with the current tires. This year, Pirelli also changed from the Kevlar to the steel linings which doesn't seem to have been the best decision, based on the delaminations we've seen to date.
Now... what if... this safety issue was "manufactured" by Pirelli in a bid to appease Red Bull after the Mercedes testing fiasco and in order to revert back to the stronger Kevlar lining?
... what if Marco Canseco's "accusation" ( http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns25792.html ) regarding Pirelli changing the tires without unanimous consent from the teams is true?? IF it's true, why would they do that?? More importantly, IF it's true, what will be done about it??
For the record, I do NOT believe Pirelli wanted to endanger anyone!! I do NOT believe they wanted to cause any accidents!! But, I DO believe they wanted to create concern / raise doubts about driver safety!! I also believe this got away from them and they are probably just as horrified as anyone else at the number of blowouts!!
If they're smart, Pirelli can come out looking like a hero, IF no one team "suddenly" runs away with everything!!
OK, I just needed to get that off my chest!! Thanks for your time!!
Last edited by sagi58; 3rd July 2013 at 02:35.
Darn Tootin'!
At this point it looks like addressing the issue will result in a performance advantage for some teams and, with safety as the counterpoint, we will have to live with it I suppose.
Full Member
Pirelli problems solved !
OFAH PIRELLI.jpg
Thank you Xubuntu
anyone knows how long it takes to change the construction of a tire and "bake" a new one?
As the once with cevlar are already on the way to Germany I guess ... as Pirelli hopefully will bring enough for each team for the whole weekend ...
Additionally a report from Austrian Public Broadcast Company
http://sport.orf.at/stories/2188028/2188027/
It says that Pirelli criticises the teams as they have used the tires wrong: i.e. mount them on wrong side to get an advantage, wrong air pressure in tires ....
which all lead to this problems and enforced them...
Die bestürzenden Vorfälle haben die von uns bereits unterbreiteten Vorschläge nötig gemacht, erklärte Pirellis Motorsportdirektor, Paul Hembery.In Hungary Pirelli will bring a absolute new tire which will be a compromise between last years tire construction and this years ...The dangerous occurrences will require changes now which we have already represented
Full Member
There is a rumour on the internet about Pirelli: Spanish newspaper Marca reports that Pirelli used a new tire in Silverstone, different compound and included a kevlar belt and steel belt. The report is based on mechanics from McLaren, it says they found kevlar pieces in the exploded tire of Perez. The teams and FIA were not informerd by Pirelli about the new tire.
If this is true then it's end of story for Pirelli.
Full Member
SkySports analysis of the tire incident last weekend also pointed out that something is different with the tires. Early in the season, when the rubber falls off, you can still see the steel belt on the tire which is much safer.
In Silverstone, the whole tire blows off. It's strange.
Full Member
Paul Hembery is a conniving, cunning cheat along with Ross Brawn and Charlie Whiting. Pirelli should sack Hembery immediately and put an Italian in charge. We need less Brits sat round the table, bending the rules for their friends.
Full Member
Exactly. Maybe some of you could see it but I couldn't see any steel belt in any of the failed tyres for the Silverstone race. I wonder if this is because of the bonding glue hiding away the steel belt? How come the steel belt wasn't hidden before in the previous races. Something is fishy here but will probably get overlooked with all the whoo haa with the the safety aspect.
Darn Tootin'!
So we end up with "an Italian" who will "bend the rules" for Ferrari?Paul Hembery is a conniving, cunning cheat along with Ross Brawn and Charlie Whiting. Pirelli should sack Hembery immediately and put an Italian in charge. We need less Brits sat round the table, bending the rules for their friends.
Full Member
that would be nice, but from the looks of things, THEY are bending the rules in favor of other teams...i.e. Mercedes and Red fools
maybe they paid them more money under the table....LOL
So the SF-24 has been a decent car. Lets hope that the totally redesigned from the ground up SF-25 contender will be a beast that will give us tifosi something to smile about.
Full Member
No we end up with an Italian to EVEN things out, Pirelli is an Italian tyre manufacture and it would be good to have someone from Italy representing the company. Some members on the forum need to wake up and smell the espresso, We all heard the stories during the court hearing, how Hembery and Brawn worked together to protect each other, and Whiting was involved In this fiasco to.
Full Member
Pirelli have denied blaming the teams for the high-speed failures which marred the British GP after explaining why they will make immediate changes to their much-criticised tyres for this week's German GP.
After a two-day post-mortem into events at Silverstone, F1's sole tyre supplier announced late on Tuesday night that the tyres to be used in Germany will be the Kevlar-based construction tested in Friday Practice at Canada last month. A new type of tyre will then be introduced for the Hungarian GP 'combining the characteristics of the 2012 tyres with the performance of the 2013 compounds'.
Teams will also be forbidden from running their rear tyres the wrong way round after analysis of the Silverstone failures found that the practice of 'reverse mounting' was a contributing factor to the numerous blowouts.
Pirelli were later forced to deny they had sought to blame the teams for the blowouts after citing the practice and highlighting low tyre pressures in their detailed explanation of why the tyres failed.
According to the Italian firm, the dramatic blowouts which tarnished the race at Silverstone were the consequence of a perfect storm of low tyre pressures, the circuit's sharp kerbs, 'extreme' camber angles, and 'tyres that were mounted the wrong way round: in other words, the right hand tyre being placed where the left hand one should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures.'
That eye-catching disclosure immediately sparked suggestions Pirelli were striving to shift the blame on to the teams and, in yet another twist to the torturous tyre saga which has dogged F1 throughout 2013, prompted a second statement from Pirelli two hours after the first in which motorsport director Paul Hembery clarified: "Contrary to the impression that some people have formed, I would like to underline the collaboration and support that we are receiving from the teams, drivers, FIA and FOM.
"In no way are we intending to create arguments or attack anybody. We have taken our responsibilities upon ourselves as our press release indicates."
Pirelli have endured widespread criticism since Sunday's race, but have insisted their tyres are safe 'when used in the correct manner'. However, amid mounting criticism of their compounds and the threat of a driver boycott, Pirelli have opted to make immediate alterations in order to strengthen the tyres and make their rubber 'easier to manage'.
"What happened at Silverstone was completely unexpected and it was the first time that anything like this has ever occurred in more than a century of Pirelli in motorsport. These incidents, which have upset us greatly, have stressed the urgency of the changes that we already suggested - which will be introduced during for free practice in Germany on Friday,"
For the Hungarian GP at the end of this month, the new tyres will 'have a structure, construction and belt identical to that of 2012, which ensured maximum performance and safety. The compounds will be the same as those used throughout 2013, which guaranteed faster lap times and a wider working range.'
The tyres will first be run at the rearranged Young Driver Test at Silverstone following the FIA's announcement on Monday that F1 race drivers will also be allowed to run in what will now amount to a fully-fledged tyre test.
Pirelli's statement in full
'A SERIES OF DIFFERENT CAUSES LED TO THE TYRE FAILURES AT SILVERSTONE: REAR TYRES MOUNTED THE WRONG WAY ROUND, LOW TYRE PRESSURES, EXTREME CAMBERS AND HIGH KERBS
'THE 2013 TYRES DO NOT COMPROMISE SAFETY IF USED IN THE CORRECT WAY
'TO DEVELOP AND MANAGE SOPHISTICATED TYRES SUCH AS THOSE USED IN 2013, IT IS ESSENTIAL TO HAVE ACCESS TO REAL TIME TYRE OPERATING DATA. CHANGE IN THE RULES HAS BEEN REQUESTED
'ARRANGED WITH FIA WINTER TEST AND DURING THE SEASON FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE TYRES
THE KEVLAR BELT REAR TYRES TESTED IN FREE PRACTICE IN CANADA WILL BE USED IN GERMANY
'FROM HUNGARY THERE WILL BE A NEW RANGE OF TYRES, WHICH COMBINES THE 2012 STRUCTURES WITH THE 2013 COMPOUNDS. THESE WILL BE TESTED AT SILVERSTONE, USING THE RACE DRIVERS AND 2013 CARS, DURING THE YOUNG DRIVER TEST
Drivers unimpressed with tyres
'PAUL HEMBERY: "WHAT HAPPENED AT SILVERSTONE UPSETS US. WITH THESE SOPHISTICATED TYRES IT'S VITAL FOR US TO SEE DATA SUCH AS TEMPERATURE, PRESSURES AND CAMBER. WHILE WAITING FOR A REVISION TO THE RULES, WE WILL SUPPLY TYRES THAT ARE EASIER TO MANAGE."
'
After exhaustive analysis of the tyres used at Silverstone, Pirelli has concluded that the causes of the failures were principally down to a combination of the following factors:
'1) Rear tyres that were mounted the wrong way round: in other words, the right hand tyre being placed where the left hand one should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures. The tyres supplied this year have an asymmetric structure, which means that they are not designed to be interchangeable. The sidewalls are designed in such a way to deal with specific loads on the internal and external sides of the tyre. So swapping the tyres round has an effect on how they work in certain conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope with the very high loads that are generated while cornering at a
circuit as demanding as Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that are particularly aggressive.
'2) The use of tyre pressures that were excessively low or in any case lower than those indicated by Pirelli. Under-inflating the tyres means that the tyre is subjected to more stressful working conditions.
'3) The use of extreme camber angles.
'4) Kerbing that was particularly aggressive on fast corners, such as that on turn four at Silverstone, which was the scene of most of the failures. Consequently it was the left-rear tyres that were affected.
'The only problems that had come to light before Silverstone were to do with delamination, which was a completely different phenomenon. To stop these delaminations Pirelli found a solution by suggesting that the teams use the tyres that were tried out in Canada from Silverstone onwards. When this proposal was
not accepted, Pirelli found another solution through laboratory testing, with a different bonding process to attach the tread to the carcass. So the problem of delamination has nothing at all to do with what was seen in Great Britain.
'Following the conclusions of this analysis, Pirelli would like to underline that:
1) Mounting the tyres the wrong way round is a practice that was nonetheless underestimated by everybody: above all Pirelli, which did not forbid this.
'2) In the same way, under-inflation of the tyres and extreme camber settings, over which Pirelli has no control, are choices that can be dangerous under certain circumstances. Because of this, Pirelli has asked the FIA for these parameters will be a topic of accurate and future examinations. Pirelli has also asked for compliance with these rules to be checked by a dedicated delegate.
'3) Pirelli would also like to underline that the 2013 tyre range does not compromise driver safety in any way if used in the correct manner, and that it meets all the safety standards requested by the FIA.
Pirelli's puncture problems
'The logical conclusion is that it is essential for tyres with the performance and technical sophistication of the 2013 range to be regulated and carefully controlled by Pirelli itself. In order to ensure the optimal functioning of the tyres, the Italian firm would need real-time data from the teams regarding fundamental parameters such as pressure, temperature and camber angles.
'While waiting for new regulations that would permit Pirelli access to this data, vital for the development and management of these state-of-the-art tyres, the following measures are proposed for the forthcoming grands prix, in agreement with the FIA, FOM, the teams and the drivers:
'1) The use of the evolution of the current tyre that was tested in Canada (and proved to be completely reliable) for the German Grand Prix this weekend. This represents the best match for the technical characteristics of the Nurburgring circuit. In particular, the rear tyres that will be used at the German Grand Prix, which takes place on July 7, have a Kevlar construction that replaces the current steel structure and the re-introduction of the 2012 belt, to ensure maximum stability and roadholding. Given that these tyres are asymmetric as well, it will be strictly forbidden to swap them round. The front tyres, by contrast, will remain unaltered
Massa - Tyres leave my safety in God's hands
2) From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards, the introduction of a new range of tyres. The new tyres will have a symmetrical structure, designed to guarantee maximum safety even without access to tyre data - which however is essential for the optimal function of the more sophisticated 2013 tyres. The tyres that will be used for the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards will combine the characteristics of the 2012 tyres with the performance of the 2013 compounds. Essentially, the new tyres will have a structure, construction and belt identical to that of 2012, which ensured maximum performance and safety. The compounds will be the same as those used throughout 2013, which guaranteed faster lap times and a wider working
range. This new specification, as agreed with the FIA, will be tested on-track together with the teams and their 2013 cars at Silverstone from 17-19 July in a session with the race drivers during the young driver test. These tests will contribute to the definitive development of the new range of tyres, giving teams the opportunity to carry out the appropriate set-up work on their cars.
'Paul Hembery, Pirelli's motorsport director, said: "What happened at Silverstone was completely unexpected and it was the first time that anything like this has ever occurred in more than a century of Pirelli in motorsport. These incidents, which have upset us greatly, have stressed the urgency of the changes that we already suggested - which will be introduced during for free practice in Germany on Friday. We would like to acknowledge the willingness of the FIA, FOM teams, and drivers to act quickly to find an immediate solution to the problem. In particular, the adoption of winter tests, arranged with the
FIA, that are more suitable for tyre development and the possibility of carrying out in-season testing will contribute to the realisation of tyres with increasingly improved standards of safety and performance. I'd like to re-emphasise the fact that the 2013 range of tyres, used in the correct way, is completely safe. What happened at Silverstone though has led us to ask for full access to real time tyre data to ensure the correct usage and development of tyres that have the sophistication we were asked to provide and extremely high performance that has lowered lap times by more than two seconds on average. While we wait for a change in the rules, we will introduce tyres that are easier to manage."'
Full Member
Makes one wonder if Ferrari and/or others are running tires on the wrong side on purpose, by accident or unbeknownst to them?
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