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Thread: German Grand Prix 2013 - Race thread

  1. #721
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    German GP – Clever strategy hit by hot weather

    Nurburg, 7 July – Fernando Alonso finished the German Grand Prix in fourth place for Scuderia Ferrari, while his team-mate Felipe Massa had to retire on lap 4, when he spun off the track and the engine on his F138 stalled. The race was won by Sebastian Vettel in the Red Bull, who was flanked on the podium by the Lotus duo of second placed Kimi Raikkonen and Romain Grosjean in third. The result means that, while the Spanish Ferrari man is still second in the Drivers’ classification, the gap to today’s race winner has grown from 21 to 34 points. Felipe is still seventh. In the Constructors’, the Prancing Horse remains third, still just 3 points behind Mercedes, however, Red Bull has extended its lead at the top of the classification.

    When the lights went out, the two Red Bulls ambushed pole man Hamilton in the Mercedes so that Vettel immediately led from Webber, with the Mercedes now third ahead of the two Lotuses of Raikkonen and Grosjean. Next was Felipe who jumped Ricciardo in the Toro Rosso to take sixth, while Fernando was up one place to seventh. Everything appeared to be going smoothly, but then Felipe had a spin at the first corner on lap 4, with the car stuck in gear and the F138 stalled, putting an end to the Brazilian’s race. The yellow flags from Massa’s incident appeared to prompt some very early pit stops with Di Resta and Vergne coming in on that lap, while Button and Ricciardo came in on lap 5, with Hamilton stopping on lap 6. Next time round, the leader Vettel pitted.

    Lap 9 saw a dramatic incident as Webber pitted and was released, although one wheel had not been secured properly. It bounced dangerously down pit lane and hit a TV cameraman. Webber obviously had to stop in pit lane and was pushed back the garage, after which he was able to rejoin.

    Lap 12 saw Fernando come in from second place, a late stop as the two Ferrari men opted to do yesterday’s Q3 on the harder Pirelli compound in order to use them to run a longer first stint today. However, the hotter weather completely changed the relative performance of the two types of tyre and nullified the strategt advantage the Scuderia had hoped for. He took on another set of Mediums and dropped down to eighth. Grosjean pitted next lap and that eventually moved him up from fifth to second place and lap 14 saw the internal Mercedes battle go in favour of Hamilton as he made a hard move stick on Rosberg. Next it was Raikkonen’s turn to pass the German. Grosjean was flying and catching the leader Vettel, while in eighth place, Fernando was now right behind Rosberg, and he was 4 seconds off Raikkonen, on a similar strategy to the Ferrari man. Gradually, the man from Oviedo was moving towards the front again and by lap 18 he was right behind Hamilton and Raikkonen and on lap 20 he nearly passed the Mercedes at the chicane and had another abortive attempt down the straight. There was more side by side action, until the Englishman pitted on lap 22, putting Fernando fourth behind Raikkonen.

    Lap 25 saw the race neutralised, as the Safety Car came out, because Bianchi’s Marussia was parked on the side of the track, on fire. After the driver got out, it also started rolling down the hill, thankfully coming to a halt in a safer place. Lap 29 and the race was on again with the order Vettel, Grosjean, Raikkonen, Alonso in fourth, Button and Hulkenberg – these last two having stopped just once so far – with Hamilton seventh, followed by Maldonado, Perez and Sutil completing the top ten. While the top three were lapping in the 1m 35s, Fernando was doing 1m 36s and dropping to 1.6 behind Raikkonen. The race order remained unchanged for a while, until Grosjean pitted for a third stop on lap 40, so that Raikkonen now led from Fernando by 3.2 seconds, with Button, who had still only changed tyres once, in third ahead of Hamilton, Vettel and Grosjean. Hamilton and Vettel were wheel to wheel on lap 44 until the German got past to take fourth place, the Englishman pitting on the next lap for a third and final time.

    Button brought the McLaren in for his second stop on lap 47, which meant that Vettel, who was lapping very quickly at this point was now third behind Fernando, albeit 10 seconds down, however as Fernando had only used the Medium tyre so far, he was committed to make a third and final stop to ensure he legally used both types of slick tyre. Raikkonen had to do the same and both men came in on lap 49, which meant that with ten laps of the 60 remaining, Vettel and Grosjean now occupied the top two places, with Fernando fourth behind Raikkonen. Lapping faster than the Finn, the Spaniard who never gives up sensed third could be in his grasp if the Lotus faltered and he banged in a race fastest lap on lap 51 with the gap between them standing at 3.2 seconds, then 2.7 on lap 53. It was to be the outright fastest lap of the race.

    On the quicker Option tyre, Kimi managed to pass team-mate Grosjean to take second place on lap 55, so Fernando was now 1.4 behind the Frenchman, but would he be able to catch and pass him in just five laps? Lap 56 and the gap was under a second, with the Ferrari man running six tenths faster and within the permitted gap to use the DRS to help overtaking. But in the end it was not to be and the battle right at the front was equally exciting with Raikkonen catching Vettel, again to no avail. One last minute change saw the battle of the Brits resolved in favour of Hamilton who managed to pass Button on the 60th and final lap to take fifth.

    http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/ger...it-hot-weather
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  2. #722
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    I just recall last year same situation but It was Alonso who won in Germany and Vettel had non-podium finish due to post race penalty and due to it Alonso had a 40 point lead over the no.2 driver in WDC(before summer break) but come Spa(Vettel p2,Fernando DNF),Singapore (Vettel p1,Fernando p3) ,Japan (Vettel p1,Fernando DNF) ,Korea (Alonso P3,VEttel p1) and India (vettel p1 and Alonso p2)...


    I am somewhat optimistic and there are a lot of points to be won in the remaining races, And with Alonso's consistency and motivation,we can still win this Championship....

    We will never give up..Fernando Alonso India 2012

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad Ansib View Post
    I just recall last year same situation but It was Alonso who won in Germany and Vettel had non-podium finish due to post race penalty and due to it Alonso had a 40 point lead over the no.2 driver in WDC(before summer break) but come Spa(Vettel p2,Fernando DNF),Singapore (Vettel p1,Fernando p3) ,Japan (Vettel p1,Fernando DNF) ,Korea (Alonso P3,VEttel p1) and India (vettel p1 and Alonso p2)...


    I am somewhat optimistic and there are a lot of points to be won in the remaining races, And with Alonso's consistency and motivation,we can still win this Championship....

    We will never give up..Fernando Alonso India 2012
    I hear this a lot. But we need to improve the car a lot, to replicate what Vettel managed last year. And looking how we keep loosing ground to the others, I don't have high hopes for future upgrades. But of course hope that I'm wrong and Ferrari will finally find what is needed to make the car faster...

    IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI

  4. #724
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    German Grand Prix 2013 - Race thread


  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzi View Post
    Gladly three decades back there was no internet, this forum and me around these places Week after week, race after race, starting more and more to see what the Shumi era has done to some people
    +1
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  6. #726
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    autosprint ‏@autosprint 27min

    Confermato che Alonso si è fermato dopo il traguardo per risparmiare la poca benzina per le verifiche. Non è proibito in gara (in prova sì)

    Autosprint @ Autosprint 27min

    Confirmed that Alonso has stopped after the finish line to save the little petrol for verification. It is not prohibited in the race (in test yes)

    And that with safety car...

  7. #727
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    I was just thinking about Jules car when it rolled back, surly there is some sort of hand brake system on the car, that should of been applied when he stopped. That could of been a nasty situation if the car had rolled back and hit another car, in a way it was no different to Webber tyre hitting a camera man in the pit lane, did Jules or the Marussia team get a fine, does anyone know?

  8. #728
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    German Grand Prix 2013 - Race thread

    Fernando Alonso: “This was a difficult race, we weren’t very quick and at some moments we were not competitive enough. In the first stint, we paid the price for being on used tyres, because by lap twelve they were already finished, which cost us some of the advantage we hoped to gain from our strategic choice. Even if we were hoping to finish on the podium, finishing less than eight seconds off Vettel after starting eighth is an encouraging result. The team is doing its utmost to make the car more competitive and after tackling a few races without being too sure about our updates, today we can claim to have cleared up many of our doubts and to have understood which are the areas we must concentrate on to move the development forward. When we arrived here on Thursday, the Silverstone test did not seem that important, because the race drivers were only meant to be testing the tyres, but having heard what the FIA had to say, it’s been confirmed that we can test updates and this makes it a much more sensible proposition. If I get the call from the team, I’m ready to go”.

    Felipe Massa: “I am very disappointed with what happened, especially after the rest of the weekend had gone well. At the start of lap four, when I was on the straight, at the moment when I braked, the rear wheels locked up and I couldn’t stop the car from spinning. When the car came to a stop, it was stuck in fifth gear and I couldn’t stop the engine from stalling. It’s very odd that it got stuck like that, even if so far, the team has not seen anything unusual. The Mediums did not have the pace we expected after Friday’s free practice, but maybe other factors, such as the higher temperatures, came into play and made the difference. Now I want to focus on the next race when I plan to do my utmost to turn things around”.


    Stefano Domenicali: “Given the current state of play, I think today’s result is the most we could have achieved and I don’t think the strategy had much of an influence on the outcome of the race. Wanting to see the glass as half full, the points we have picked up at this point in the season are very important. The variable temperatures we saw today produced different performance levels. This turnaround confirms yet again how difficult it is for everyone to interpret as well as possible the true competitiveness of the car-tyre package at every track. Looking ahead, now it is vital that we optimise the performance of our car, just as our rivals have managed to do, because we want to get back to fighting for the top places as soon as possible. In Hungary we will have different tyres and it will be important to understand their behaviour right from the test at Silverstone, in two weeks time. At the same time, we will try to change pace on our development work, an area where we need to push hard”.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    Ferrari is the only team that has been able to consistently take the fight to Red Bull these last few seasons, and despite Red Bull's dominance they have only barely made it past Ferrari for their championships. That's not a failure in my book. It shows they are not going down without a fight.
    Exactly this... it's not like other teams are beating the Red Bull either.... short of ransacking Red Bull's engineering and aero departments, Ferrari is still 2nd or 3rd best.... the car needs to improve and Ferrari has tried poaching Newey from Red Bull, possibly others, if they don't want to come to Ferrari, what's there to do really....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    I hear this a lot. But we need to improve the car a lot, to replicate what Vettel managed last year. And looking how we keep loosing ground to the others, I don't have high hopes for future upgrades. But of course hope that I'm wrong and Ferrari will finally find what is needed to make the car faster...
    lets All pray that God helps us to stop Finger-boy from winning another Championship in 2013

    and the RB9 hits the "development cileing" whatever that means

  11. #731
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    Sorry to come late to the party. Anyway, please remember that last year, RB, already, had a fast car. F138 is not a fast car.

  12. #732
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    I wont drop to your level to continue this. I was a Ferrari supporter through the pre Shu years and I don't really need anyone such as you to tell me to leave the Ferrari fan base. from now on, lets not exchange comments because we are obviously not communicating.

  13. #733
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    im not glad that he is leaving... Mark is a good driver and a good man. I had actually hoped that he would come to Scuderia as I think he would have been a good addition to the team... he has a vast knowledge as a development driver. In todays race I think , if given the chance, he would have challenged Vettel for the lead... Since I am a Porsche fan and drive one I am happy that he is going to be with Porsche.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Exactly this... it's not like other teams are beating the Red Bull either.... short of ransacking Red Bull's engineering and aero departments, Ferrari is still 2nd or 3rd best.... the car needs to improve and Ferrari has tried poaching Newey from Red Bull, possibly others, if they don't want to come to Ferrari, what's there to do really....
    +1

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vau9hn View Post
    Well, once again Ferrari have done the usual and totally predicted crappy performance. We need drivers that know how to overtake and have fight in them. This current team is going nowhere fast. I am embarrassed to support them. Clearly they will think this was a brilliant performance...and continue at this pace because this is all they are capable it seems. You go Ferrari....one way to win the championship NOT.
    For the sake of F1, wake up or bow out.
    Vau9hn just joined us to say that..........Join Date: 7th July 2013.Last Activity: Today 14:14

    Just read some of the Team bashing posts on this thread.
    1ST. prize goes to this one.

    Last edited by Dino; 7th July 2013 at 20:08.

  16. #736
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    Really don't know where to put this race result. Somehow I feel glad that our gap to the winner wasn't that big as after Silverstone we would have expected it. Somehow it is a bit sad that we are not coming any step further (of course this one week was too less). It is a pity that the softer weren't that much faster in the end than expected - but afterwards you're always wiser. Maybe Kimi would won if they hadn't pit him as he didn't had to (both tire types already used).

    I'm even not sure if Fernando drove good race or not. Looking in the OnBoard camera he was working like hell (compared to how it looks like when you drive a RB around the corner). Don't know if Grojsean would have been able to be beaten or not, as Alonso closed the gap but didn't catch him and raised a gap again in the last two laps (maybe the fuel issue?!). Also don't know how the fight with Hamilton might have cost us 3rd ord 2nd place today ...

    It was either depressing that we didn't had a chance against our direct competitors in the DRS zone. Whether Hamiltion nor Grosjean got caught. It was like we had been in the limiter even DRS open. But same belongs also to Grosjean who wasn't also able to profit from DRS behind Vettel.

    But in total the positive impression are bigger ... even if it doesn't look better in terms of WDC & WCC

    At least I pull my head from RB
    they strengthen their strengths (traction, traction, traction, grip from the moment where they put on the tires) and eliminate their weaknesses (especially Vettel team: just see the speed of Vettel on the start/finish straight where Grosjean wasn't able to close up even DRS active). And they are also able to find work around if rules changing (blown diffuser, motor mapping, flex wing etc. etc.). Also on developing side they make two steps forward and can allow to make also one backwards sometime. So from an objective point of view: very impressive I would say. Each Friday in Free Practises it seems that they have also to struggle and work a bit with the behaviour of the car (onboard records). But then come Saturday and suddenly it looks like a Carrera Slot Racing car.
    And Vettel drove a good race too - him and his car make a nice couple. It's rather annoying that it always hits Webber if it comes to some unlikely circumstances. And especially when he was as quick as his loved team mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzi View Post
    Gladly three decades back there was no internet, this forum and me around these places Week after week, race after race, starting more and more to see what the Shumi era has done to some people
    +1
    or "like thump"
    or "excellent" (spoken like Mr. Burns)
    And the RB & Vettel story makes the rest of it ...
    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    If he is I hope he takes his fanboys with him.
    sorry sir to say but this sound very arrogant.
    Generally: I don't think it will be much better with "Vettel-Fan-Boys" on board when results are missing. Maybe we should avoid putting any other driver into a Ferrari than from Scuderia trainee program to avoid "Fanboys" (and Fanwomen) attending Ferrari forums and Ferrari fanbase. And its either a little bit funny that only after the smallest wind of critics to Felipe nearly each Mod shows up to give parental protection (like when having 2 kids the small one is never guilty and if the older one has told him). And as proven concept: this parental protection doesn't makes the number critics less just Mods more stressed. But of course you pay the server and maintain the software: it is your right to do so ...

    P.S. title from official statement German GP – Clever strategy hit by hot weather
    hit by hot weather? I always thought we are struggling when its cold as we are too kind for the tires to bring them to temperature .... now it has been too hot ... but who is to know about that ...
    Last edited by Senna4Ever; 7th July 2013 at 20:30.
    "If I was driving for Red Bull [from 2008] probably I would have more championships, but because they were dominating between 2010 and 2014 probably I would never have driven for Ferrari. I am very happy and very proud to drive for Ferrari, all my time there.

  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Vau9hn just joined us to say that..........Join Date: 7th July 2013.Last Activity: Today 14:14

    Just read some of the Team bashing posts on this thread.
    1ST. prize goes to this one.

    Actually the prize should go to all the mods that have soo much patience to tolerate this kind of bashing!!

  18. #738
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    I think this was the maximum result. The tactics worked , Fernando and the team made no mistakes, but there is simply not more in the car at this moment. The difference is not very big, but just big enough. We can reasonably keep up with them , but we can't really challenge.
    Satisfied? No. Could they have done better today? No.
    Improving a F1 car by a few 10ths a lap seems not much, but in reality it is a mountain to climb.
    Let's support the team and incourage them to climb that mountain.

    Forza Ferrari!
    You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse

  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianellen View Post
    Everyone enjoys winning, but you should support the team through thick and thin not just attack them every time a result doesn't go our way. Everyone in F1 has phases of winning and losing. It's part of the sport. Things will probably completely change again next year. Red Bull have been at the front for nearly 5 seasons. Can you imagine what it must have been like for a Mclaren fan during the glory years? At least we are consistently near the front in races and firm podium contenders. We could be Mclaren right now in nowheresville.
    +100000 THIS!
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianellen View Post
    A team is the people not just a logo, every race weekend people are slagging them off instead of encouraging them. I seem to rememeber us delivering last year too, Alonso finished second in the championship only 3 points behind Vettel. It's never enough though, to stop the slagging off. Maybe you should try being a Williams fan like my older brother and still continue to support your team no matter where they are. I was asking a fair question, consider what you really support, the team or the winning?
    +100000 THIS!
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  21. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Because real fans don't mock their team, especially when they are down.
    +100000 THIS!
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  22. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna4Ever View Post
    And its either a little bit funny that only after the smallest wind of critics to Felipe nearly each Mod shows up to give parental protection (like when having 2 kids the small one is never guilty and if the older one has told him). And as proven concept: this parental protection doesn't makes the number critics less just Mods more stressed. But of course you pay the server and maintain the software: it is your right to do so ...
    Just as this forum defended Rubens, it will defend any Ferrari team member, this is a fan site if you can't have your say without insulting the team member or other forum members then we will off course have something to say about it, we would defend Alonso just the same if you want to try it out? But it does seem you have issues with this policy we have always followed. No idea why.
    Forza Ferrari

  23. #743
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    Who are all of these NEW people posting to the site??? Why are they even here??? Makes no sense at all! A lot "Trolling" going on. So it was a tough day for the Ferrari Team. McLaren are not having any "Cake Walk"! Newey is not God. He and his Team of Engineers are just people with tools to work with. Certainly Vettel as a driver is getten better and better. Ferrari have to take step back and figure our what is going on and what down force values they have. They have to see if they can make the car lighter and if they can lower the center of gravity of the race car. They have to look at Drag again and see where is can be reduced.

  24. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    Who are all of these NEW people posting to the site??? Why are they even here??? Makes no sense at all! A lot "Trolling" going on. So it was a tough day for the Ferrari Team. McLaren are not having any "Cake Walk"! Newey is not God. He and his Team of Engineers are just people with tools to work with. Certainly Vettel as a driver is getten better and better. Ferrari have to take step back and figure our what is going on and what down force values they have. They have to see if they can make the car lighter and if they can lower the center of gravity of the race car. They have to look at Drag again and see where is can be reduced.
    Red Bull/Merc/McLaren fans I guess.

    IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI

  25. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    Red Bull/Merc/McLaren fans I guess.
    Possibly yes, to try and stir things up on here.
    Really sad individuals, if that's the case.
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  26. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna4Ever View Post
    Really don't know where to put this race result. Somehow I feel glad that our gap to the winner wasn't that big as after Silverstone we would have expected it. Somehow it is a bit sad that we are not coming any step further (of course this one week was too less). It is a pity that the softer weren't that much faster in the end than expected - but afterwards you're always wiser. Maybe Kimi would won if they hadn't pit him as he didn't had to (both tire types already used).

    I'm even not sure if Fernando drove good race or not. Looking in the OnBoard camera he was working like hell (compared to how it looks like when you drive a RB around the corner). Don't know if Grojsean would have been able to be beaten or not, as Alonso closed the gap but didn't catch him and raised a gap again in the last two laps (maybe the fuel issue?!). Also don't know how the fight with Hamilton might have cost us 3rd ord 2nd place today ...

    It was either depressing that we didn't had a chance against our direct competitors in the DRS zone. Whether Hamiltion nor Grosjean got caught. It was like we had been in the limiter even DRS open. But same belongs also to Grosjean who wasn't also able to profit from DRS behind Vettel.

    But in total the positive impression are bigger ... even if it doesn't look better in terms of WDC & WCC

    At least I pull my head from RB
    they strengthen their strengths (traction, traction, traction, grip from the moment where they put on the tires) and eliminate their weaknesses (especially Vettel team: just see the speed of Vettel on the start/finish straight where Grosjean wasn't able to close up even DRS active). And they are also able to find work around if rules changing (blown diffuser, motor mapping, flex wing etc. etc.). Also on developing side they make two steps forward and can allow to make also one backwards sometime. So from an objective point of view: very impressive I would say. Each Friday in Free Practises it seems that they have also to struggle and work a bit with the behaviour of the car (onboard records). But then come Saturday and suddenly it looks like a Carrera Slot Racing car.
    And Vettel drove a good race too - him and his car make a nice couple. It's rather annoying that it always hits Webber if it comes to some unlikely circumstances. And especially when he was as quick as his loved team mate.



    +1
    or "like thump"
    or "excellent" (spoken like Mr. Burns)
    And the RB & Vettel story makes the rest of it ...

    sorry sir to say but this sound very arrogant.
    Generally: I don't think it will be much better with "Vettel-Fan-Boys" on board when results are missing. Maybe we should avoid putting any other driver into a Ferrari than from Scuderia trainee program to avoid "Fanboys" (and Fanwomen) attending Ferrari forums and Ferrari fanbase. And its either a little bit funny that only after the smallest wind of critics to Felipe nearly each Mod shows up to give parental protection (like when having 2 kids the small one is never guilty and if the older one has told him). And as proven concept: this parental protection doesn't makes the number critics less just Mods more stressed. But of course you pay the server and maintain the software: it is your right to do so ...


    P.S. title from official statement German GP – Clever strategy hit by hot weather
    hit by hot weather? I always thought we are struggling when its cold as we are too kind for the tires to bring them to temperature .... now it has been too hot ... but who is to know about that ...
    Nothing arrogant about it at all.... this is a Ferrari forum that supports the team regardless of who the drivers are.... some of these comments are getting ridiculous and some of us are pointing that out.... Red and my comments have nothing to do with being mods here, mod or not, we would have made the same comments regardless....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  27. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Nothing arrogant about it at all.... this is a Ferrari forum that supports the team regardless of who the drivers are.... some of these comments are getting ridiculous and some of us are pointing that out.... Red and my comments have nothing to do with being mods here, mod or not, we would have made the same comments regardless....


    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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  29. #749
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    Ferrari needs to make some BIG gains for Hungary. If nothing happens, then we are done for the year and we have to concentrate on the 2014 car. Vettel is too fast and the Lotus's are too quick for Alonso to make any inroads on the WD title. Massa is another story, he is under pressure and is making too many rookie mistakes. Lets bring in Di Resta or Hulkenberg ether one will be able to do better than Felipe.

  30. #750
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    ...and I am going for the 19th year in a row to Hungaroring... What to expect...? So many years have passed by since Ferrari last win in Budapest...

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