Red Bull’s traction secret revealed?

[Greig]

My dog's got a big ego too.

Thanks for the info.

[Hornet]

I think we can all agree that bernie sticks his beak in when he needs too. Wether the teams and the fia take any notice of him is another question. However, I think everybody wants to keep bernie on side, so for me, i think it is pritty obvious that he has an influence on decisions made in the sport

Regardless of what influence he has, Bernie doesn't have the kind of absolute power over the FIA that he can tell them to let Red Bull cheat like what some people are suggesting. That's the first thing that doesn't make sense.

Secondly, Bernie has always stressed how important Ferrari is to the sport. If he have the kind of power people claims he has, he would have done many things to make Luca DM happy such as telling the FIA to scrap the engine rule that Ferrari dislike.

[zoocheatah]

I never said every part was checked, you are the one thinking a tech report at a race weekend covers all the FIA do with governing the rules, which is simply not the case.

Don't make up stuff, no matter how desperate you get. I have not said a race tech report covers all the FIA do with governing the rule.

[Greig]

Don't make up stuff, no matter how desperate you get. I have not said a race tech report covers all the FIA do with governing the rule.

And I never said every part is checked every race.

[zoocheatah]

And I never said every part is checked every race.

So you admit your last post was a total lie you made up about what I posted?

[Greig]

So you admit your last post was a total lie you made up about what I posted?

So you admit your last post was a total lie you made up about what I posted?

You told me the tech report would show when FIA check engine maps, which is not the case.

[zoocheatah]

So you admit your last post was a total lie you made up about what I posted?

You told me the tech report would show when FIA check engine maps, which is not the case.

No, I never said you said every part was checked. I answered your dumb question about what wasn't checked at the race.

So, now you admit your previous post about me was made up by you and was a total lie.

[Greig]

You asked why and I told you that they never test everything on every car. Also engine maps are not all checked for every car at every scrutineering session.

Read first, then write. I said they don't test everything at every race. You are correct about Germany last year, there they did check the engine map of RB, but it is NOT checked for all cars at all races. Scrutinized bits are random samples.

But you forgot to check the rules.

The electrical and software systems of all cars are inspected by the FIA at the start of the season and the teams must notify them in advance of any subsequent changes. All teams must use the same FIA-specification Electronic Control Unit (ECU) for controlling engine and gearbox.

All software must be registered with the FIA, who check all the programmable systems on the cars prior to each event to ensure that the correct software versions are being used. Electronic systems which can automatically detect the race start signal are forbidden.

So you can admit you called it wrong, and I will let you stop squirming to try and get out of that hole you dug yourself

[giodap]

Regardless of what influence he has, Bernie doesn't have the kind of absolute power over the FIA that he can tell them to let Red Bull cheat like what some people are suggesting. That's the first thing that doesn't make sense.

Secondly, Bernie has always stressed how important Ferrari is to the sport. If he have the kind of power people claims he has, he would have done many things to make Luca DM happy such as telling the FIA to scrap the engine rule that Ferrari dislike.

I agree he doesnt have absolute power, but hes a powerful guy and he has his friends and his favourites like we all do in life. And he does have influences on decisions made. The FIA have no backbone in punishing teams that break rules as weve seen with red bull and more recently mercedes and when they do punish a team/driver it can often be an inconsistant decison.

My point is, is that because their soft and inconsistant, surely that leaves them wide open to be influenced i.e spygate and merc tyre test

[mirafiori]

Yet it was Bernie who put McLaren back in the dock? I quoted max, the penalty was decided by a vote. You can try and belittle me if you wish but its not really respectful.

Bernie off course will try and protect his interests (and the teams) to expect otherwise is not being level headed.

Max Mosley has clearly stated it was Bernie, and Bernie alone who came up with the idea to fine Mclaren 100 million dollars, the whole point is Bernie has huge influence, and you asked me for a example, I gave you some clear information and you clearly choose to ignore it. I still have the interview on my sky tv, when I get home I will give you more information, if you need to know more.But it is sad you will not take what I say in good faith.

[Greig]

Max Mosley has clearly stated it was Bernie, and Bernie alone who came up with the idea to fine Mclaren 100 million dollars, the whole point is Bernie has huge influence, and you asked me for a example, I gave you some clear information and you clearly choose to ignore it. I still have the interview on my sky tv, when I get home I will give you more information, if you need to know more.But it is sad you will not take what I say in good faith.

Bernie might well have suggested it, as I said he will be looking out for his and the teams interests (after all they get money from these deals Bernie does as well) does not mean he forced the FIA to give that penalty as I said it was decided in a vote. Not sure how I choose to ignore it when I responded to it? It was still Bernie who passed the info of emails onto the FIA, why would he do that when he wanted nothing to happen?

[mirafiori]

Bernie might well have suggested it, as I said he will be looking out for his and the teams interests (after all they get money from these deals Bernie does as well) does not mean he forced the FIA to give that penalty as I said it was decided in a vote. Not sure how I choose to ignore it when I responded to it? It was still Bernie who passed the info of emails onto the FIA, why would he do that when he wanted nothing to happen?

Well you seem to know more than Max Mosley, the vote is not the issue, it's all about Bernie's influence to decide what punishment should be handed out to Mclaren. Did the FIA decide what punishment should be handed out?...NO! It was Bernie who decided the man with no influence according to you.

[zoocheatah]

But you forgot to check the rules.

The electrical and software systems of all cars are inspected by the FIA at the start of the season and the teams must notify them in advance of any subsequent changes. All teams must use the same FIA-specification Electronic Control Unit (ECU) for controlling engine and gearbox.

All software must be registered with the FIA, who check all the programmable systems on the cars prior to each event to ensure that the correct software versions are being used. Electronic systems which can automatically detect the race start signal are forbidden.

So you can admit you called it wrong, and I will let you stop squirming to try and get out of that hole you dug yourself

I didn't get anything wrong, you are just too thick or stubborn to learn there is a difference between a software program and data. And you are also too thick to understand that checking a software version number doesn't mean all actual software is checked.

When data is checked at a race, like engine maps, or ignition maps it is stated in the technical report. I already stated engine maps were checked in Germany last year. A couple of races ago ignition maps were checked and that was clearly stated in the Technical report.

The base ignition map range was checked on all cars.

So, just as I have stated from my initial post, the engine maps are NOT checked at every race on every car.

Now, you can admit you have lied about what I posted (you know exactly the post I'm referring to) and you can acknowledge I got this completely right.

[Rob]

Well you seem to know more than Max Mosley, the vote is not the issue, it's all about Bernie's influence to decide what punishment should be handed out to Mclaren. Did the FIA decide what punishment should be handed out?...NO! It was Bernie who decided the man with no influence according to you.

When he asked Bernie what would you do, in his situation and punishment to hand out, as banning them from the following years Championship would of proberly meant Mclaren going under, Bernie said to Max 100 million as a sort of tongue in cheek punishment. And Max thought, actually not bad 1, as it massive punishment that didnt effect the teams whole future. Plus, a punishment that others would think, blimey and not do that again, well get caught.

[Greig]

I didn't get anything wrong, you are just too thick or stubborn.

Time for you to read the forum rules next time won't be pretty

[Greig]

Well you seem to know more than Max Mosley, the vote is not the issue, it's all about Bernie's influence to decide what punishment should be handed out to Mclaren. Did the FIA decide what punishment should be handed out?...NO! It was Bernie who decided the man with no influence according to you.

I already said Bernie was looking after his and the teams, his suggestion was not an order but maybe you know more. Maybe Max is a honest upstanding guy right enough.

[XXX132]

[mirafiori]

When he asked Bernie what would you do, in his situation and punishment to hand out, as banning them from the following years Championship would of proberly meant Mclaren going under, Bernie said to Max 100 million as a sort of tongue in cheek punishment. And Max thought, actually not bad 1, as it massive punishment that didnt effect the teams whole future. Plus, a punishment that others would think, blimey and not do that again, well get caught.

I like the way you said when he asked Bernie what would you do, no Bernie told them the FIA, fine them 100 million dollars because he was looking at the bigger picture with self interest. So I repeat this 3ft 6inch man has massive influence. Mclaren never complained paying the biggest sporting fine in history, yes the total amount they paid hurt them in there pocket, but the reality is they should of been kicked out for 2 years as requested by Max Mosley, the thing is 100 million dollars may seem like a lot of money, but if Mclaren had to research and develop the car to the standard of the Ferrari at that time, it would of cost them a lot more , so Mclaren were happy to pay the money. Then in 2008 the FIA sent a team in to Mclaren HQ to see what they were doing, where they discovered they were still using Ferrari technology, again they had to pay a team of people employed by the FIA many millions of pounds, sorry cant remember the exact amount. But Max Mosley said they still had some parts of the car which had Ferrari technology, but could not prove it. That is why he said they should of been banned for 2008 season,then as we all know Hamilton won the 2008 title, but poor old Massa should of been the real 2008 world drivers champion.

[Greig]

I like the way you said when he asked Bernie what would you do, no Bernie told them the FIA, fine them 100 million dollars because he was looking at the bigger picture with self interest. So I repeat this 3ft 6inch man has massive influence. Mclaren never complained paying the biggest sporting fine in history, yes the total amount they paid hurt them in there pocket, but the reality is they should of been kicked out for 2 years as requested by Max Mosley, the thing is 100 million dollars may seem like a lot of money, but if Mclaren had to research and develop the car to the standard of the Ferrari at that time, it would of cost them a lot more , so Mclaren were happy to pay the money. Then in 2008 the FIA sent a team in to Mclaren HQ to see what they were doing, where they discovered they were still using Ferrari technology, again they had to pay a team of people employed by the FIA many millions of pounds, sorry cant remember the exact amount. But Max Mosley said they still had some parts of the car which had Ferrari technology, but could not prove it. That is why he said they should of been banned for 2008 season,then as we all know Hamilton won the 2008 title, but poor old Massa should of been the real 2008 world drivers champion.

I have no idea bout a fine for McLaren in 2008 maybe you could give me a link for that one? Bernie's self interest is also the team's interest where do you think they get the money from and are quite happy to sign new deals with Bernie? So how do you know Ferrari were not asked by Bernie about what sort of punishment they would like? After all Ferrari are pretty cosy with Bernie and the FIA and hold way more power than any other team but I don't see you complaining about that strangely enough.

I am not sure why you think it cost Massa a title either, we made our own mistakes that cost Massa the title.

[mirafiori]

I already said Bernie was looking after his and the teams, his suggestion was not an order but maybe you know more. Maybe Max is a honest upstanding guy right enough.

Max Mosley was head of the FIA in 2007, and when Bernie said fine them 100 million dollars, Max Mosley should of said to Bernie, listen we will decide the course of action to take, but sadly that is not the way it worked out. Ferrari was present at the hearing and they wanted justice, Bernie was also present and he told the FIA what punishment should be handed out. But for some of you Bernie has no influence.

[Rob]

small quote form Bernies book about the situation...

Ecclestone later talked Mosley down from banning McLaren for two years (“bit heavy”, he said) and instead imposing a record $100 million fine. Mosley joked that it was “$5 million for the offence and $95 million for Ron being a ****”.

Anyway, we gone off the range here.

[Greig]

Max Mosley was head of the FIA in 2007, and when Bernie said fine them 100 million dollars, Max Mosley should of said to Bernie, listen we will decide the course of action to take, but sadly that is not the way it worked out. Ferrari was present at the hearing and they wanted justice, Bernie was also present and he told the FIA what punishment should be handed out. But for some of you Bernie has no influence.

You do realise the FIA just govern F1 they don't own it? Off course the owners are going to have some influence on what is best for their product would be ridiculous to say otherwise.

Just like Ferrari can have an influence and have been given special treatment as it's good for the sport's owners.

[mirafiori]

small quote form Bernies book about the situation...

No you got that wrong Rob, it was Bernie who said the fine being mostly for Ron being a XXXX, but you are right Rob it was said in jest.

Anyway, we gone off the range here.

[mirafiori]

I have no idea bout a fine for McLaren in 2008 maybe you could give me a link for that one? Bernie's self interest is also the team's interest where do you think they get the money from and are quite happy to sign new deals with Bernie? So how do you know Ferrari were not asked by Bernie about what sort of punishment they would like? After all Ferrari are pretty cosy with Bernie and the FIA and hold way more power than any other team but I don't see you complaining about that strangely enough.

I am not sure why you think it cost Massa a title either, we made our own mistakes that cost Massa the title.

My mistake it was not a fine, Mclaren had to pay the FIA costs occurred for a team of people to scrutinize the Mclaren before the 2008 season started. Where by the way they found the car having Ferrari technology. For example the braking system on the 2008 Mclaren was Ferrari braking system.

[Greig]

My mistake it was not a fine, Mclaren had to pay the FIA costs occurred for a team of people to scrutinize the Mclaren before the 2008 season started. Where by the way they found the car having Ferrari technology. For example the braking system on the 2008 Mclaren was Ferrari braking system.

Yeah they had our brake balance system and changed wheelbase. But they had to remove them.

[DIEK]

[mirafiori]

Yeah they had our brake balance system and changed wheelbase. But they had to remove them.

Yes you are right they did have to remove them, Max Mosley did say back then there was probably more things on the Mclaren belonging to Ferrari, but would be hard to find or prove, this is why he wanted the Mclaren banned for the 2008 season, of course as we know this was the year Lewis Hamilton went on to win the Formula One title, which prevented Felipe Massa from being the true Champion. This is why I am so critical of BERNIE, because of his influence the true justice of spygate was never dealt with correctly. And now the same thing has happened with Mercedes secret tyre test, again Bernie was involved, along with his great friend Charlie.

[diesel08]

http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-hav...olo-1442585020

[DIEK]

Kers failure in Vettel's car = no traccion control = Webber Pole

[Hermann]

Kers failure in Vettel's car = no traccion control = Webber Pole

That seals it.