F14-T- Development & News

[mark p]

According to Gary anderson Ferrari are ahead in the Engine and transmission department and seem to have found something that the others havent- but apparently we are still lacking in mid speed downforce.

Will downforce be finite this year. In the past downforce increases speed as you can put the throttle down more but this year you can only use so much throttle. Does this mean teams can get more downforce than needed as cannot take advantage of it with more throttle? If so theres a set amount of downforce needed and its if you can achieve this with as little drag thats the real key?

[peta_w]

Down force will be less this year because the main components that provide it have been reduced in capacity. Front wing smaller, rear wing less area and removed beam, airflow access to floor reduced, no exhaust to blow floor or diffuser. But I don't have any concerns on down force for the F14-T. Remember it is all relative. In fact I'm happy with what I've seen at Jerez. The flow viz picture (front wing) shows we have a good solution for the front. Our side pods worked and have the smallest intakes (least drag). There were some comments about the rear grip of the F14-T but we ran all of Jerez without one main component of rear down force, the Y-100. This is about the only areo part on 2014 cars that is bigger this year and the only scope to blow with exhaust gases. So what we were watching in Jerez has the F14-T missing a significant part of its rear down force, and even missing that the car looked competitive. Alison had an innovative solution for Lotus with the Y-100 so perhaps we have a bit of a secret weapon there.

[Hornet]

Will downforce be finite this year. In the past downforce increases speed as you can put the throttle down more but this year you can only use so much throttle. Does this mean teams can get more downforce than needed as cannot take advantage of it with more throttle? If so theres a set amount of downforce needed and its if you can achieve this with as little drag thats the real key?

Downforce dictates how fast you can swing the car around corners so they are still important. If you have more downforce, you can carry more speed through the corner (before accelerating where throttle comes into the picture).

But anyway, aero aren't homologated while the engines will be, so it's best to get the engine strong first, we can solve any aero issues later. IMO.

[Senna4Ever]

But anyway, aero aren't homologated while the engines will be, so it's best to get the engine strong first, we can solve any aero issues later. IMO.

Right, as we (Ferrari) are known for being genius regarding aero as our hobbyhorse ...
Proven well the last years - especially after summer break ...

[ntukza]

No teams would really want to max out the engine that early by continously hitting 15000 rpm, for no benefit (lap times) First test, was just one big shakedown and data collection. If other teams ran 15000rpm, fair play, but in my eyes, and the team that is a big risk to take for no reason.

Is it not better to do the risky stuff as early as possible? Are you saying assessing the performance and fuel consumption of the power units at maximum revs has no benefit?

[Rob]

Take the risk and have our engines blow so early in tests, media would be all over, as they are with Renault. But as it would of been us, the stories would of been worse, i could see the headlines now. Ferrari all at sea already, season is a right, going to struggle to find fixes blah blah blah.

Anyway, high revs, up in 15000 rpm would use more fuel, and im sure the team would now the limits as would of run them to end of their lifes on the dyno.

[F1NAC]

a lot's of portals said that Ferrari will bring a lot of new stuff in bahrain(engine updates, aero) will see what will happen there. And it will be very crucial if the engines can take full pressure on that long finish straight .

[Rishu]

57 practice sessions, 19 qualifying sessions & 19 races with 5 engines. So so important to get the reliability right.

[abbottcostello]

No real benefit to run around at 15,000 rpm, as all the experts have said none of the cars will even run that high during the races. If I remember correctly they're saying about 12,500 is probably going to be the targeted maximum (could be off a bit, but they will be well below the max. anyhow). The most important things were running baseline tests on engine AND aero to be sure it correlates to the data they generated on the dyno & in the wind tunnel. All teams have said basically they can produce all the power they need, maybe not in so many words though. The big challenges are getting that power to the track while still keeping control of the car & not running out of fuel before the checkered flag. So essentially making the best use of the power being made (which includes engine power & power recovered from the turbo & braking). Huge factors will be who recovers the maximum power & who devises the best way to feed that recovered energy back in the most efficient way to get the best benefit from it, therefore lessening their fuel usage the most.

And contrary to what a lot have said aero will still be a huge determining factor (as it has been ever since they discovered the gains to be had). Of course, all the good minds will keep learning more as the season goes on & by the end of it, much of what was "lost" to the new aero rules will have been recaptured through better understanding of the new cars & better "interpretation" of the rules. Ferrari just needs to be sure they are the ones making the most gains & having the best rule "benders"

Oh, yeah, 1 more thing to point out, you only get 5 complete power units per car, use a 6th engine, get a 5 place grid penalty, use a 6th MGU-H, get a 5 place penalty. You are penalized per component, not per power unit as a whole!!!

[Rishu]

10 place grid penalty I think.

[Hornet]

Right, as we (Ferrari) are known for being genius regarding aero as our hobbyhorse ...
Proven well the last years - especially after summer break ...

We have a new wind tunnel and so far everything we've heard about it from Jerez is positive. We also have new people which will bring new ideas. I see no reason why things cannot change for the better this year.

[Senna4Ever]

We have a new wind tunnel and so far everything we've heard about it from Jerez is positive. We also have new people which will bring new ideas. I see no reason why things cannot change for the better this year.

And I say they must demonstrate first that this will happen ... as we had a big lack in aero the last couple of seasons.
And as I mentioned few months ago: a fool with a (very good) tool is still a fool. And wind tunnel doesn't create innovative, smart ideas. That is up to the guys in the areo department.

so let's wait and see.

Engine guys have done a proper, superb job so far it seems ... let's see what the stuff from the areo department is capable to do ... I hope the best still but several years of - let's call it - doubtful results leave bad smell for a while ...

[mark p]

Downforce dictates how fast you can swing the car around corners so they are still important. If you have more downforce, you can carry more speed through the corner (before accelerating where throttle comes into the picture).

But anyway, aero aren't homologated while the engines will be, so it's best to get the engine strong first, we can solve any aero issues later. IMO.

Agreed. I am strugling to articulate my theory. I mean in past years more and more downforce was welcome but this year will there be an equilibrium where you have enough to turn the car in fast but anymore will induce too much drag where by a net loss is made from the fuel saving that will result?

[Kiwi Nick]

Agreed. I am strugling to articulate my theory. I mean in past years more and more downforce was welcome but this year will there be an equilibrium where you have enough to turn the car in fast but anymore will induce too much drag where by a net loss is made from the fuel saving that will result?

Nothing has changed with regard to the trade offs between down force and drag. It is always a balancing act between down force vs. drag. In the course of a season, teams will have high down force packages and low down force packages depending on the circuit. If more and more down force was always welcomed, teams would run high down force packages at Monza, but they don't. At Monza they bring out the small rear wings to reduce drag and sacrifice down force for top end speed.

The difference this year is that the FIA have reduces the size and number of primary down force generating devices, i.e. front wings and rear wings have been made smaller and the beam wing and blown diffuser have been eliminated. And this year there is the issue of fuel economy which must also be taken into account. That means that, as was ever the case, teams will be searching for as much down force as they can develop under the new rules. It is just that there is less theoretical down force to be found because there are fewer devices to generate it. But, there will always be a point at which they will need to balance down force and drag and it will vary depending upon the track they are racing on at the time.

[Unbannable II]

Allison thinks Teams will gain back downforce quickly by season start and cars will get much quicker! That probably tells us something about Ferraris aerodinamic upgrades in the pipeline that are coming in tests as well in the upcoming races .

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112481

[radosav]

Allison thinks Teams will gain back downforce quickly by season start and cars will get much quicker! That probably tells us something about Ferraris aerodinamic upgrades in the pipeline that are coming in tests as well in the upcoming races .

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112481

I am always afraid of Ferrari upgrades pipeline!

[mark p]

Nothing has changed with regard to the trade offs between down force and drag. It is always a balancing act between down force vs. drag. In the course of a season, teams will have high down force packages and low down force packages depending on the circuit. If more and more down force was always welcomed, teams would run high down force packages at Monza, but they don't. At Monza they bring out the small rear wings to reduce drag and sacrifice down force for top end speed.

The difference this year is that the FIA have reduces the size and number of primary down force generating devices, i.e. front wings and rear wings have been made smaller and the beam wing and blown diffuser have been eliminated. And this year there is the issue of fuel economy which must also be taken into account. That means that, as was ever the case, teams will be searching for as much down force as they can develop under the new rules. It is just that there is less theoretical down force to be found because there are fewer devices to generate it. But, there will always be a point at which they will need to balance down force and drag and it will vary depending upon the track they are racing on at the time.

I'm rubbish at explaining this thanks for the in depth info. I know this, of course downforce will be very important what I am trying (not very well) is has the balance between low drag and out and out downforce moved more towards low drag? I do not mean huge loss of downforce to reduce drag just a slight shift from out and out downforce to low drag considering limited fuel?

[Aberracus]

Sorry i misplaced this in the wrong section, it should be here i think


Scarbs says in the latest "Motorsport Monday" release that Ferrari were running their ERS at 37.5% for a limited amount of laps as the 3 large cables carrying the current were overheating.

Digital motorsport

[Jas]

Sorry i misplaced this in the wrong section, it should be here i think


Scarbs says in the latest "Motorsport Monday" release that Ferrari were running their ERS at 37.5% for a limited amount of laps as the 3 large cables carrying the current were overheating.

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//la ... 6e&pnum=16

Link doesn't work?!

[Aberracus]

sorry corrected now

this is the link again anyway.

Link

[ntukza]

Oh that doesn't sound good! Overheating problems?

[shamim179]

Have we gone too aggressive with our engine packaging? Is this what the media mean by an engine upgrade - that rather it has to do with fixing the cooling problems?

[Kiwi Nick]

That must be what the vent and duct on the left side of the coke bottle was all about. They should be OK if they increase the gauge of the wire. The ERS wiring carries lots of energy.

[Bertie]

Sorry i misplaced this in the wrong section, it should be here i think


Scarbs says in the latest "Motorsport Monday" release that Ferrari were running their ERS at 37.5% for a limited amount of laps as the 3 large cables carrying the current were overheating.

Digital motorsport

If true then its not all bad. The article says we reduced the output by 100bhp. So that means an instant power increase in the next test just by changing for bigger wires. We have been hearing that the merc engine seemed more powerful in jerez. But i think if it was 100bhp more powerful we would of heard more. On a negative note, is this the cause of the weird sound our car made when down shifting instead of an inovative zero-torque gear box?

[mkable1370]

If true then its not all bad. The article says we reduced the output by 100bhp. So that means an instant power increase in the next test just by changing for bigger wires. We have been hearing that the merc engine seemed more powerful in jerez. But i think if it was 100bhp more powerful we would of heard more. On a negative note, is this the cause of the weird sound our car made when down shifting instead of an inovative zero-torque gear box?

If the Ferrari PU was really turned down by 100bhp, then I think that is a very big positive! Comparison of track times at this point are pretty much meaningless, but it makes the fact that the Ferraris were consistently posting times near the top of the timesheet during each day of testing, all the more impressive. I think Allison knows that the engine has MUCH more to give than we saw in Jerez. Now, if he can bring a little bit more rear down-force to the party, I suspect the Ferrari boys may be quite happy.

[DIEK]

[Nero Horse]

You posted this video in the wrong thread. It's got nothing to do with Ferrari or the development of the F14-T.

[Jas]

great vid mate!

[Winter]

If true then its not all bad. The article says we reduced the output by 100bhp. So that means an instant power increase in the next test just by changing for bigger wires. We have been hearing that the merc engine seemed more powerful in jerez. But i think if it was 100bhp more powerful we would of heard more. On a negative note, is this the cause of the weird sound our car made when down shifting instead of an inovative zero-torque gear box?

Sounds little too simple explanation to me. It's Known how much current ERS produce and its basic stuff to know how big cables to use for that amount of current.
I mean I dont think that Ferrari would make that kind of amateur mistake. It has to be something more complicated.

[tifosi1993]

The F14T is a wolf in sheep's clothing