F14-T- Development & News

**bondilad** · 14th February 2014, 06:24

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/re...plier-minardi/

it seems renault hasn't solved all its problems yet. I know this thread is for f14t news but didn't want to open a new thread for renault engine troubles.

**mirafiori** · 14th February 2014, 08:17

Originally Posted by bondilad

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/re...plier-minardi/

it seems renault hasn't solved all its problems yet. I know this thread is for f14t news but didn't want to open a new thread for renault engine troubles.

Just read the article, what was interesting is that Red Bull could be looking for a new engine supplier in 2015 if the Renault package ends up a disaster this year, now the big question is where would they go. Ferrari no chance, Mercedes again no way, so that leaves Honda, I'm assuming Honda are like the other engine suppliers and can supply more than one team and if that is the case just wondering how Mclaren would react to this news.??

**Module** · 14th February 2014, 08:25

Originally Posted by mirafiori

Just read the article, what was interesting is that Red Bull could be looking for a new engine supplier in 2015 if the Renault package ends up a disaster this year, now the big question is where would they go. Ferrari no chance, Mercedes again no way, so that leaves Honda, I'm assuming Honda are like the other engine suppliers and can supply more than one team and if that is the case just wondering how Mclaren would react to this news.??

I've understood Honda and McLaren have a exclusive deal for 2015. Engine manufacturers are obliged to also supply other teams but they got a one year dispensation. There are a lot of articles about this, here's one:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107571

Manufacturers are allowed to supply 4 teams so Mercedes isn't a possibility but I'm not sure if they are allowed to deny engines to teams if they supply less than 4, on equality grounds. The options would be Ferrari for 2015 or then wait for Honda 2016.

And after counting again....as McLaren changes to Honda Mercedes supplies only 3 teams in 2015

**abbottcostello** · 14th February 2014, 08:40

Well, if this is true, you can bet we'll be hearing from Bernie soon talking about how bad these new engines are & for the good of the sport we need to suspend the "absurd" 2014 engine changes & immediately revert to last years v8's.

It would be stunning if Renault has got such a major problem that has only come to light at Jerez! Seems they would've at the very least had an inkling & been focusing all their resources on the problem before this. Can't wait to see how this unfolds or if it is just more rumors & exaggerations?

**mirafiori** · 14th February 2014, 09:07

Originally Posted by Module

I've understood Honda and McLaren have a exclusive deal for 2015. Engine manufacturers are obliged to also supply other teams but they got a one year dispensation. There are a lot of articles about this, here's one:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107571

Manufacturers are allowed to supply 4 teams so Mercedes isn't a possibility but I'm not sure if they are allowed to deny engines to teams if they supply less than 4, on equality grounds. The options would be Ferrari for 2015 or then wait for Honda 2016.

And after counting again....as McLaren changes to Honda Mercedes supplies only 3 teams in 2015

Thank you for sharing the information.

**Hornet** · 14th February 2014, 09:16

Originally Posted by abbottcostello

Well, if this is true, you can bet we'll be hearing from Bernie soon talking about how bad these new engines are & for the good of the sport we need to suspend the "absurd" 2014 engine changes & immediately revert to last years v8's.

It would be stunning if Renault has got such a major problem that has only come to light at Jerez! Seems they would've at the very least had an inkling & been focusing all their resources on the problem before this. Can't wait to see how this unfolds or if it is just more rumors & exaggerations?

During Jerez testing, there were some rumors that Renault may be facing correlation issues with their engine dyno. Don't know if that's possible, but as we've seen with our wind tunnel, if the problem exist, it's easy for the result to look good during simulation but ends up a disaster on track.

We'll see next week what happens

**Rob** · 14th February 2014, 09:43

Originally Posted by Hornet

During Jerez testing, there were some rumors that Renault may be facing correlation issues with their engine dyno. Don't know if that's possible, but as we've seen with our wind tunnel, if the problem exist, it's easy for the result to look good during simulation but ends up a disaster on track.

We'll see next week what happens

The data they got from the dyno, regarding heat, looked all good. But, come into real word, it wasnt (is) right. Alot more heat than data/dyno simulations.

**Hornet** · 14th February 2014, 10:31

Originally Posted by Rob

The data they got from the dyno, regarding heat, looked all good. But, come into real word, it wasnt (is) right. Alot more heat than data/dyno simulations.

That explains the problems we saw in Jerez. Wonder how long it will take them to fix it.

**Senna4Ever** · 14th February 2014, 10:31

Originally Posted by mirafiori

Just read the article, what was interesting is that Red Bull could be looking for a new engine supplier in 2015 if the Renault package ends up a disaster this year, now the big question is where would they go. Ferrari no chance, Mercedes again no way, so that leaves Honda, I'm assuming Honda are like the other engine suppliers and can supply more than one team and if that is the case just wondering how Mclaren would react to this news.??

would fix ma picture about these Red Bull guys
- Renault provided them for 4 years in a row a great engine (for Biber especially) and now might come a year which might be harder they're already looking for an exit strategy ... wow ... that's what I call a partner ...

and firmly we know: it isn't a Renault issue (Lotus test, Caterham, ... ) as more the design and construction of the Newey car ... which would be just a great pleasure that the won't get a engine for 2015 then too: Ferrari no option, Merc has already taken the engine from a direct competitor so won't give RB either and Honda will just concentrate on McLaren ...

**Kyss4k** · 14th February 2014, 11:01

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

would fix ma picture about these Red Bull guys
- Renault provided them for 4 years in a row a great engine (for Biber especially) and now might come a year which might be harder they're already looking for an exit strategy ... wow ... that's what I call a partner ...

and firmly we know: it isn't a Renault issue (Lotus test, Caterham, ... ) as more the design and construction of the Newey car ... which would be just a great pleasure that the won't get a engine for 2015 then too: Ferrari no option, Merc has already taken the engine from a direct competitor so won't give RB either and Honda will just concentrate on McLaren ...

They can always build their own... right?

**bondilad** · 14th February 2014, 11:11

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

would fix ma picture about these Red Bull guys
- Renault provided them for 4 years in a row a great engine (for Biber especially) and now might come a year which might be harder they're already looking for an exit strategy ... wow ... that's what I call a partner ...

and firmly we know: it isn't a Renault issue (Lotus test, Caterham, ... ) as more the design and construction of the Newey car ... which would be just a great pleasure that the won't get a engine for 2015 then too: Ferrari no option, Merc has already taken the engine from a direct competitor so won't give RB either and Honda will just concentrate on McLaren ...

So if there is any truth to this article and if they truly ditch renault, they won't be able to continue as a works team with any other engine partner. What a turnaround of events for the world champions. I bet seb would jump ship the moment this happens.

**AfterLife** · 14th February 2014, 13:00

Originally Posted by Hornet

That explains the problems we saw in Jerez. Wonder how long it will take them to fix it.

Soon. No doubt

**mark p** · 14th February 2014, 13:40

I,ll beleive this if after 10 races they are off the pace and many many points off the lead in both championships. I'd rather focus on Ferrari being the best and who cares about the rest?

If dyno was out all the cooling figures the cars were designed around may be wrong. Newey pushes cooling so he has pushed the limits on false figures so potentially may have to re design alot. Remember the 2003 Mclaren that never raced but they ran updated 2002 car, can't do that this year but like I said this is the extreme and the truth probably lies between this and the other extreme of it will be alright by Bahrain test.

**mirafiori** · 14th February 2014, 13:52

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

would fix ma picture about these Red Bull guys
- Renault provided them for 4 years in a row a great engine (for Biber especially) and now might come a year which might be harder they're already looking for an exit strategy ... wow ... that's what I call a partner ...

and firmly we know: it isn't a Renault issue (Lotus test, Caterham, ... ) as more the design and construction of the Newey car ... which would be just a great pleasure that the won't get a engine for 2015 then too: Ferrari no option, Merc has already taken the engine from a direct competitor so won't give RB either and Honda will just concentrate on McLaren ...

Well said.

**PURE PASSION** · 14th February 2014, 15:15

Was Ferrari sandbagging during testing at Jerez? Maybe so, as it emerges that the Maranello outfit did not have their new F14T cranked up to maximum power.

Auto Motor und Sport on Friday revealed that, having studied the data from the recent opening winter test, the top five places in terms of top speed were occupied by Mercedes-powered cars.

Topping the lot was the newly Mercedes-powered Williams’ Felipe Massa, who tripped the radar at 286 kph on the front straight, and 307 kph on the fastest part of the southern Spanish circuit.

Over the four days the Ferrari F14T, with Kimi Raikkonena and Fernando Alonso at the wheel did a combined 252 laps, equivalent to 1116 kilometres around the former grand prix venue.
In contrast, the nearest Ferrari-powered car was the works Ferrari F14T driven by Kimi Raikkonen, with just 268 kph on the straight and a top speed of 289 kph, which was considerably down on the leading Mercedes-Benz powered car.

Auto Motor und Sport’s Michael Schmidt reports that Ferrari has admitted it did not deploy full power at Jerez, where the all-new and sophisticated V6 turbo power units were getting the first real running.

Mercedes’ Niki Lauda, however, said there was no sandbagging in the silver camp.

“We went to the limit that we could, as it makes no sense to go deliberately slowly. You learn nothing (from that),” said the multiple F1 world champion and Mercedes team chairman

http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/14/w...jerez-testing/

**shamim179** · 14th February 2014, 15:36

That's interesting. Ferrari were there or thereabouts close to the top of the timesheets at Jerez. They achieved this while setting laps that had nowhere near the top speed of the best. Of course it depends on whether or not Ferrari attained these top speeds while posting their fastest times. The reality might be that the top speeds were a tad bit lower. But given that our top speeds were 268 and 289 kph we obviously didn't go faster than this yet still posted competitive times. We are looking really good!

**gvera** · 14th February 2014, 16:11

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/14/w...jerez-testing/

Weren't there rumours on Ferrari running the MGU-K 100hp down because of the cables getting too hot?
I think that's a more beleivable cause than 'sandbagging' and explains the speed deficit.

**ntukza** · 14th February 2014, 16:44

Originally Posted by Kiwi Nick

It is good t see Kimi in the simulator at the factory. I guess that means that Nando can skip that work this season like Massa said he did last year. I knew there was a reason they rehired Kimi!

Hahaha I honestly took this as a good sense of humor and I laughed. And then I realised that people are taking it seriously. Come on, people. Lighten up!

**mkable1370** · 14th February 2014, 16:56

Originally Posted by mirafiori

Just read the article, what was interesting is that Red Bull could be looking for a new engine supplier in 2015 if the Renault package ends up a disaster this year, now the big question is where would they go. Ferrari no chance, Mercedes again no way, so that leaves Honda, I'm assuming Honda are like the other engine suppliers and can supply more than one team and if that is the case just wondering how Mclaren would react to this news.??

If things really became that dire, might they take a chance at funding the Cosworth perhaps for 2015? I can't see Ferrari volunteering a PU to the team that beat them the last couple years in the championship, and if Honda do have an exclusive deal for 2015, options really are very limited.

**Nero Horse** · 14th February 2014, 17:15

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

Was Ferrari sandbagging with the F14T during Jerez testing?
http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/14/w...jerez-testing/

Well, if this is really true and we were indeed "sandbagging" with only half the power in Jerez, then we should completely blitz the field once the power is turned all the way up. Very interesting, and I hope it's true.

**f1tomi8** · 14th February 2014, 17:23

**mkable1370** · 14th February 2014, 17:48

Originally Posted by gvera

Weren't there rumours on Ferrari running the MGU-K 100hp down because of the cables getting too hot?
I think that's a more beleivable cause than 'sandbagging' and explains the speed deficit.

Regardless, all rumors point to Ferrari intentionally turning down the power and not running to the max.

The fact that they were posting very competitive times for the Jerez test must be seen as a positive.

**Nero Horse** · 14th February 2014, 17:55

Originally Posted by mkable1370

Regardless, all rumors point to Ferrari intentionally turning down the power and not running to the max.

The fact that they were posting very competitive times for the Jerez test must be seen as a positive.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

**Rob** · 14th February 2014, 18:02

Ferrari F14 is the secret of T

Look at the Ferrari F14 T : its sides are reduced to a minimum, the air inlets are among the smallest among the cars this year. It lacks even the small side opening sull'airscope, which in the past two years cooled oil cooler change.

How is it possible, with the demands of the turbo hybrid this year, that the cooling system is even smaller? Yet we are talking about a reduction of 15 per cent of the cores . I had anticipated Autosprint in the submission number of the car (red and black) .

The secret is: the use of special heat exchangers , in place of traditional radiators. According to the latest rumors, it would be a system equipped with a micro-titanium tubes of just two-tenths of a millimeter in internal diameter, capable of ensuring the necessary cooling with a much smaller size.

The world leader in this technology is the Mezzo Technologies of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It is very likely that Ferrari has just leaning to this supplier for what could be the real technical revolution of this 2014 season .

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport...a-f14-t/13179/

**mkable1370** · 14th February 2014, 19:00

Originally Posted by Rob

Ferrari F14 is the secret of T

Look at the Ferrari F14 T : its sides are reduced to a minimum, the air inlets are among the smallest among the cars this year. It lacks even the small side opening sull'airscope, which in the past two years cooled oil cooler change.

How is it possible, with the demands of the turbo hybrid this year, that the cooling system is even smaller? Yet we are talking about a reduction of 15 per cent of the cores . I had anticipated Autosprint in the submission number of the car (red and black) .

The secret is: the use of special heat exchangers , in place of traditional radiators. According to the latest rumors, it would be a system equipped with a micro-titanium tubes of just two-tenths of a millimeter in internal diameter, capable of ensuring the necessary cooling with a much smaller size.

The world leader in this technology is the Mezzo Technologies of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It is very likely that Ferrari has just leaning to this supplier for what could be the real technical revolution of this 2014 season .

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport...a-f14-t/13179/

The micro-tube titanium heat exchanger idea has been discussed in some detail in the F14T thread on the f1technical.net forum. For those interested, the link is below.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie...7676&start=735

**abbottcostello** · 14th February 2014, 19:04

From mezzotech.com website:

"Mezzo radiators are the most widely distributed Mezzo product. Mezzo was an approved supplier of radiators for the Indy Racing League (IRL) in 2010 and 2011. Mezzo's foothold in high performance racing is growing, with customers in LeMans, F1, etc. Mezzo's performance advantage is gained through excellent heat transfer and very low air pressure drop (for a given air face velocity).

Mezzo won the 2010 Louis Schwitzer Award for Engineering Innovative Excellence in the Indy Racing League."

I don't think they're any secret to all the teams, I think maybe they're just getting things more reliable of late. I'm glad to see Ferrari on the cutting edge or does the fact Mezzo lists F1 in their customers possibly mean others are already using their products as well?

**Tifoso** · 14th February 2014, 19:11

This is really cool! (pardon the expression

)

**Forzafonz** · 14th February 2014, 19:12

I really like how more and more experts at the current moment say that Ferrari has a really good car, although the same experts said absolytely opposit things about our car right after its launch ( it is too conservative, luck of innovation, poor engine and so forth0). And now what? It turns out that our car has all of key features: plenty of innovations, really good engine ( according with our team comments they are happy with it) and it is not conservative as it seems at first glance. Do not forget, please, that we expect a great deal of new parts in Bahrein which can bring F14-T on absolytely new level in terms of technical advantage.
I really want an excellent car for Fernando and Kimi, because they both have deserved it.

**Forzafonz** · 14th February 2014, 19:19

well, my thoughts are that the base technology of this "Mezzo radiators" is not a secret, but there can be many secret technologies which make the best cooling system from an ordinary cooling system. And i hope, that this technologies is a deal only between Ferrari and Mezzo.