F14-T- Development & News

[mark p]

The differences in wing angle settings are virtually imperceptible. Perhaps a centimeter or two of range. That is why nobody picks it up from photos. The affect is far greater than the image. Observers know whether a car is set for high or low down force by its times.

Of course this assumes that the team hasn't changed wings. It would be obvious if a team had cone to a Monza style rear wing vs. a standard wing. But adjusting the angle of attack on a front wing is very, very hard to see.

Do you think the top speed figures were not related to low downforce but due to them using full power which is what they are struggling to do as consistent as Merc teams. I say this as the 34.2 lap the speed was 308 so down by nearly 32kph. Seems a huge figure only for a subtle wing angle change?

[RedPassion]

Do you think the top speed figures were not related to low downforce but due to them using full power which is what they are struggling to do as consistent as Merc teams. I say this as the 34.2 lap the speed was 308 so down by nearly 32kph. Seems a huge figure only for a subtle wing angle change?

Mark P is right.If the F14T was not running full ERS power its impossible to have the highest top speed just by less wing.To have a great top speed you need great traction too and if the Ferrari is already sliding in the slow corners because of the torque, the reduced wing would be only damaging the top speed.My humble opinion is that the F14t has a good power unit with a couple of glitches to solve,and a good downforce level.Think about it,Allison said a couple of months ago that the car was producing interesting numbers in the wind tunnel,first Allison and now Domenicali confirmed that the wind tunnel correlates,Ferrari brought a big updates package for the first race(bigger than in 2011):New front wing,new turning vanes under the nose more similar to the F138,almost nobody wrote about it,new underbody in particular the splitter,almost nobody wrote about,slightly different sidepods barge board,new bodywork,new rear brake ducts,new very interesting rear wing and new diffuser.If all these updates are at least worth 0.5 seconds(very pessimistic),why should we dispair?We may not have the fastest car yet,but we have potential.

[f300v10]

Do you think the top speed figures were not related to low downforce but due to them using full power which is what they are struggling to do as consistent as Merc teams. I say this as the 34.2 lap the speed was 308 so down by nearly 32kph. Seems a huge figure only for a subtle wing angle change?

The effect on top speed of a change to the front wing flap angle would be very small. Consider that using DRS only adds approximatly 15 to 20 KPH to the top speed, and that is MUCH larger change in drag than any front wing change would produce. The difference in the Ferrari top speeds would likely be down to two things: 1) DRS was used on one lap, but not the other. 2) Full PU power was only used on the 339 kph lap. Or perhaps both 1 and 2. I don't know how often DRS is used on the front stretch during these tests.

[Winter]

If I remember correct(not sure that I do), both divers used that old, simple looking frontwing at some point on their both testing days. At least that old wing looks like it would generate less drag and downforce than the new, more complex one. Maybe those high top speeds was made with that old wing..

[RedPassion]

If I remember correct(not sure that I do), both divers used that old, simple looking frontwing at some point on their both testing days. At least that old wing looks like it would generate less drag and downforce than the new, more complex one. Maybe those high top speeds was made with that old wing..

The most drag is produced by the rear wing,the front wing produces little drag when compared,and the difference between the two front wings would be negligible.

[gvera]

Lunch break, don't think Bahrain looked like this.
IMG-20140306-WA0001.jpg

[Kiwi Nick]

Lunch break, don't think Bahrain looked like this.
IMG-20140306-WA0001.jpg

Flat 12!!!!

[GrndLkNatv]

Flat 12!!!!

Note the bottles of Lambrusco!! I remember these days!!

[Ferris]

Do you think the top speed figures were not related to low down force but due to them using full power which is what they are struggling to do as consistent as Merc teams. I say this as the 34.2 lap the speed was 308 so down by nearly 32kph. Seems a huge figure only for a subtle wing angle change?

Another thing to remember here is that those top speeds were not hit consistently but only on a few occasions. In other words Ferrari didn't run full power on the ERS consistently during the weekend, just on a few occasions to test the performance but they clearly had reliability concerns and therefore did not run it at full power very often at all.

Merc on the other hand was very close to our top speed but hit those VMax's lap after lap.

We have some work to do. But it will be done!!!

[Ferris]

Another interesting piece of info. Merc think we are not sandbagging and that our test performance is exactly where we stand.
Force India believe we are sandbagging and have been from the start.

They both have their reasons for stating their positions but one thing is certain, no one really knows for sure where Ferrari is at... except for Ferrari.
If they were sandbagging, they certainly wouldn't be telling anyone they were.

10 more days.

[Tifoso]

What good would sandbagging do, though?

Other teams: boy Ferrari sure is slow. We can give our development boys a few months off.

*after smashing Ferrari 1-2 in Oz*

Other teams: man, they sure fooled us. We better start developing double time.


What am I missing?

[mark p]

Another interesting piece of info. Merc think we are not sandbagging and that our test performance is exactly where we stand.
Force India believe we are sandbagging and have been from the start.

They both have their reasons for stating their positions but one thing is certain, no one really knows for sure where Ferrari is at... except for Ferrari.
If they were sandbagging, they certainly wouldn't be telling anyone they were.

10 more days.

Although we cannot be certain it seems like over the past few pages we all agree Ferrari has intermittent full ERS and unlikely although not impossible this is on purpose.

If issue exists if its a physical issue it may take longer than hopefully a software issue which in theory should be solved quicker by trolling through all the data gathered, hopefully by the 1st race. I beleive to some exyent the issue would have been faced by Merc but likely solved between Jerez and Bharain 1 if its software. Merc engine teams worked on maps together to speed the process up and they had more total mileage.

I hope if an ERS issue is there it is software and simply a part of the development process that even Merc have had to go through i hope just a case of being a phase behind in pu development.

[Ferris]

What good would sandbagging do, though?

Other teams: boy Ferrari sure is slow. We can give our development boys a few months off.

*after smashing Ferrari 1-2 in Oz*

Other teams: man, they sure fooled us. We better start developing double time.


What am I missing?

Well if you look at car development over the last 4 years, the fastest car (RB) was looked at and either copied or protested against.
Ferrari has an impending problem with respect to the turbo shielding approach they have used and the threat of protest from Mercedes and Renault. Being perceived to be slower may put less pressure on them from the other teams on this issue.

The other element is that they could divert attention to the "faster" teams in terms of their solutions and not have people pay too much attention right now to the developments of the Ferrari and hence buy them a few more weeks jump on the competition.

In looking at Ferrari this year it seems they have been very secretive right from the start (just look at the engines and who said and presented what) so I see no sense in this not continuing.

In addition "sandbagging" does not mean Ferrari don't know how fast they are. This can be worked out very easily, they don't need the official timing sections on the track to work out their true speed, and in fact it has been stated that they actually used different timing loops to the official ones during the test.

You only do that to hide your real speed. Whether it is because they are slow or fast and want to hide it is anyone's guess.

Trying to hide your speed from the competition is beneficial if it doesn't make your life too difficult and the way Ferrari did it would be easy to work with.

[Ferris]

Although we cannot be certain it seems like over the past few pages we all agree Ferrari has intermittent full ERS and unlikely although not impossible this is on purpose.

If issue exists if its a physical issue it may take longer than hopefully a software issue which in theory should be solved quicker by trolling through all the data gathered, hopefully by the 1st race. I beleive to some exyent the issue would have been faced by Merc but likely solved between Jerez and Bharain 1 if its software. Merc engine teams worked on maps together to speed the process up and they had more total mileage.

I hope if an ERS issue is there it is software and simply a part of the development process that even Merc have had to go through i hope just a case of being a phase behind in pu development.

From the info available it looks like Ferrari had a cooling issue with the ERS and had to run at reduced power to stop this from overheating. This may also have affected the development of the ERS with the rest of the PU from a software perspective.

I think they are behind on both fronts as the revised side pods during the test to allow for greater cooling suggests they had some excessive heat issues.
Also the plumbing on the body work (makeshift) during the first test suggested the ERS system was also running too hot.

They will work it out.

[Majki2111]

I really don't understand the article. It says that Ferrari might be sandbagging, but I haven't found a good reason why it could be like that.
And how can you possibly belive that they were using different timing loops??????? I think it is just rubbish media story.

[Ferris]

I really don't understand the article. It says that Ferrari might be sandbagging, but I haven't found a good reason why it could be like that.
And how can you possibly belive that they were using different timing loops??????? I think it is just rubbish media story.

The different timing loops was discussed last week and confirmed by people in the paddock. It's not a new thing.
Everything being discussed here could be rubbish, perhaps we should just close down the forum and wait for the official information only from Ferrari when it comes... Still waiting for an image from Ferrari on their PU... Oh that's right they only released one which was later to be seen to be not the one that they are using...

Still think they are not trying to hide anything?

Naive much?

[Forzi]

From Autosport:
"Domenicalli just said to an italian tv what any wise fan already realized from testing:"

from scuderia.net, domenicalli from tv interview - we have problems with rear tyre degradation - engine too aggressive and too much torque - we have problems running batteries at full power and we run during tests without full power (not cause we wanted to but cause we weren't able to do so) - we lack in traction in slow corners and downforce in high speed corners - we must run low downforce due to fuel consumption. - Our engine has higher consumption and we are forced to run low downforce to reduce drag. In fact we recorded top speed but we are slow in cornering. - Overall rumors agree we are far behind mercedes (more than 1s) - Domenical in tv said we are behind mercedes and williams.. and not by a small margin. Focus is already on catching the competition.

[Ferris]

From Autosport:
"Domenicalli just said to an italian tv what any wise fan already realized from testing:"

The biggest concern is around fuel consumption. Everything else can be addressed through the season but the fuel consumption is largely driven by the ICE which is now locked down.

[Majki2111]

The different timing loops was discussed last week and confirmed by people in the paddock. It's not a new thing.
Everything being discussed here could be rubbish, perhaps we should just close down the forum and wait for the official information only from Ferrari when it comes... Still waiting for an image from Ferrari on their PU... Oh that's right they only released one which was later to be seen to be not the one that they are using...

Still think they are not trying to hide anything?

Naive much?

Domenicali said tey are behind Williams and Mercedes...

[emirBoz]

Raikkonen : "There is a lot of talk outside about problems, but inside the team we have a very good feeling"

we will see

[Ferris]

Domenicali said tey are behind Williams and Mercedes...

What does that have to do with trying to hide their real performance? The two are not related.

[Ferris]

Domenicali said tey are behind Williams and Mercedes...

I think elmo from sesame street is really funny... See what I did there Maj?

[Majki2111]

What does that have to do with trying to hide their real performance? The two are not related.

They would not say that if they were not.

I think elmo from sesame street is really funny... See what I did there Maj?

Don't understand you.

[Ste]

From Autosport:
"Domenicalli just said to an italian tv what any wise fan already realized from testing:"

There's nothing on Autosport saying thing...

[Ferris]

They would not say that if they were not.

Don't understand you.

Just because they say they are slower it does not mean they were not trying to hide their pace. I don't understand how you can't see the two are unrelated.

Also I am not surprised you don't understand me; I have a brother in law who is also Croatian, he rarely understands my comments either but that's because he doesn't have a sense of humour.

[Majki2111]

Just because they say they are slower it does not mean they were not trying to hide their pace. I don't understand how you can't see the two are unrelated.

Also I am not surprised you don't understand me; I have a brother in law who is also Croatian, he rarely understands my comments either but that's because he doesn't have a sense of humour.

Yeah, Croatian humor and British huimor is totally different.

[Ferris]

Yeah, Croatian humor and British huimor is totally different.

Yeah... kind of the point I was trying to make, but not exactly.

All good. Hopefully we will have something positive to discuss after Melbourne.

[Majki2111]

Yeah... kind of the point I was trying to make, but not exactly.

All good. Hopefully we will have something positive to discuss after Melbourne.

Agree.

[Kiwi Nick]

Of all the people who have commented I will believe the one guy who is less inclined to ...I believe Kimi!

Raikkonen : "There is a lot of talk outside about problems, but inside the team we have a very good feeling"

[nikola0406]

I realy have a good feeling about this season. Didnt feel this way for a long time. So we will win this. Trust me mates.B-)