F14-T- Development & News

[GrndLkNatv]

Notice, 30% is nowhere in that quote..

[Greig]

You replied to the 30% comment that is was planned this way.

[GrndLkNatv]

LOL!! I did, but I never said I agreed it was 30% nor did I imply it.. I didn't quote it either. Therefore I never said 30%. BTW, you're still on your game mate!! Great conversation..

You replied to the 30% comment that is was planned this way.

[mark p]

Hey at least the fuel consumption rumour appears to be false. I have been an advocat of believing engine mapping maybe biggest issue but of course I do not know.

Ferrari know and have more data now. Over next few races I do not expect Ferrari to be infront of Merc but to close the gap. They are nit far off best of the rest and on any Sunday could be 2nd best even as things stand. If they are clear 2nd best 3 races in and making gains on Merc I would consider this a success compared to last few years and if can keep closing maybe level by Spain. This of course may not happen but it is what is keeping me going. Of course Merc have to finish races so if Ferrari can be reliable and show consistent improved pace they might win a few races in that time.

Time to see if Ferrari can develop the best as ultimate goal of being best out the box out the box has passed.

[hrc5555]

Greig,
I didn't say they couldn't run it full power, I said I doubt they let it run all out at the first race. If you don't know how the engine/power unit will run in your first actually race and you only get 5 of them, you don't run it flat out the first race.. You run it at a reasonable rate, get your data and then figure out how far you can push it. That isn't a problem, that's normal..

I dont get your logic at all! You said we have only 5 of them and we are not supposed to run it flat out at the first race, but all the rival teams with Mercedes and Renault power units did the opposite! Even if they change power units for every race and start from the pit lane Mercedes, Williams and Red Bull would beat us to the end of the race because they have power!

Your posts are yust PR talk, Ferrari should not truy to find any excuses!

[giodap]

[QUOTE=mark p;832875]Hey at least the fuel consumption rumour appears to be false. I have been an advocat of believing engine mapping maybe biggest issue but of course I do not know.

Ferrari know and have more data now. Over next few races I do not expect Ferrari to be infront of Merc but to close the gap. They are nit far off best of the rest and on any Sunday could be 2nd best even as things stand. If they are clear 2nd best 3 races in and making gains on Merc I would consider this a success compared to last few years and if can keep closing maybe level by Spain. This of course may not happen but it is what is keeping me going. Of course Merc have to finish races so if Ferrari can be reliable and show consistent improved pace they might win a few races in that time.

Time to see if Ferrari can develop the best as ultimate goal of being best out the box out the box has passed.[ /QUOTE]

nice post mark p it would be great to see ferrari bringing loads of working updates throughout the season.
its just hard to take being slow out of the box. weve put so much emphasis on this year! sunday morning was painful for all of us!
however, we all need to get behind the team and support the fight back!! FORZA FERRARI

[GrndLkNatv]

I dont get your logic at all! You said we have only 5 of them and we are not supposed to run it flat out at the first race, but all the rival teams with Mercedes and Renault power units did the opposite! Even if they change power units for every race and start from the pit lane Mercedes, Williams and Red Bull would beat us to the end of the race because they have power!

Your posts are yust PR talk, Ferrari should not truy to find any excuses!

No my posts are not PR talk. I am an engineer, not in PR. In all honesty none of these engines were run flat out this weekend, and Ferrari ran theirs more conservatively than the others from what we can see. 100kg of fuel/34 gallons, means you can't run any V6 at WOT full power for 2 hours.

[Ferris]

No my posts are not PR talk. I am an engineer, not in PR. In all honesty none of these engines were run flat out this weekend, and Ferrari ran theirs more conservatively than the others from what we can see. 100kg of fuel/34 gallons, means you can't run any V6 at WOT full power for 2 hours.

Thanks and great to read your contribution and Greigs but really guys, we don't need to be reading pages of what amounts to a " match" in a head wind. You will just end up looking silly.

You are both passionate Tifosi and this is great but we need to discuss things respectfully especially during these moments of poor performance.

If you want to attack each other then do it via private message but please bring useful info as you have in the past to us all, that is much appreciated.

If we can't be united in here how do we expect the team to be united when they are under infinitely more stress than us mere observers.

Onward and upwards.

[hrc5555]

No my posts are not PR talk. I am an engineer, not in PR. In all honesty none of these engines were run flat out this weekend, and Ferrari ran theirs more conservatively than the others from what we can see. 100kg of fuel/34 gallons, means you can't run any V6 at WOT full power for 2 hours.

Of course they can not run it on full power for 2 hours, thats evident, but you can run it close to full power and meet all the rules!

And if it is true that you are an engineer than you should know that if an engine have more power then that same engine is more efficient.

You are sure that you dont work in PR?

[GrndLkNatv]

Here, you tell me if I am in PR: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstephens

Of course they can not run it on full power for 2 hours, thats evident, but you can run it close to full power and meet all the rules!

And if it is true that you are an engineer than you should know that if an engine have more power then that same engine is more efficient.

You are sure that you dont work in PR?

[Silent Bob]

Of course they can not run it on full power for 2 hours, thats evident, but you can run it close to full power and meet all the rules!

And if it is true that you are an engineer than you should know that if an engine have more power then that same engine is more efficient.

You are sure that you dont work in PR?

Well let's not forget that it isn't just about the engine. A lot of the efficiency comes from using the electrical energy to enhance the IC unit. If the ERS is not workinng at 100%, then the IC will not be as efficient. I think it has been evident for some time that Ferrari is not getting all available usage out of its ERS. I don't believe any team can run its engine at almost full power for a full race, the fuel flow won't allow it (apparently most engines run the race well below the max allowable RPM).

[GrndLkNatv]

Well let's not forget that it isn't just about the engine. A lot of the efficiency comes from using the electrical energy to enhance the IC unit. If the ERS is not workinng at 100%, then the IC will not be as efficient. I think it has been evident for some time that Ferrari is not getting all available usage out of its ERS. I don't believe any team can run its engine at almost full power for a full race, the fuel flow won't allow it (apparently most engines run the race well below the max allowable RPM).

Exactly.. Plus the engines don't produce any more usable horsepower above 13k rpm due to the fuel restriction, it's just flat. If they uncorked these babies, you might seen 1000bhp out of them and some real racing

[hrc5555]

Here, you tell me if I am in PR: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstephens

I belive you man, just dont like when anybody is making excuses for Ferrari. Time for excuses has past and if Ferrari dont develop winning car before sommer brake (which in my opinion is very unlikely!) some people should be sacked!!
Dont get me wrong, I love Ferrari and I am a fan since 1998...
But when I see that one Alonso can not pass Force India, or Kimi unable to overtake Torro Rosso than it makes me cry!! No excuse can justify that!

[hrc5555]

Well let's not forget that it isn't just about the engine. A lot of the efficiency comes from using the electrical energy to enhance the IC unit. If the ERS is not workinng at 100%, then the IC will not be as efficient. I think it has been evident for some time that Ferrari is not getting all available usage out of its ERS. I don't believe any team can run its engine at almost full power for a full race, the fuel flow won't allow it (apparently most engines run the race well below the max allowable RPM).

I was just saing what Stefano said.
These are his words: "I think that area is an area we need to improve. I know it seems not logical but the more power that you have, the less you stay on full throttle so you also benefit on the fuel"
From that words its all about power from power unit...

[hrc5555]

Exactly.. Plus the engines don't produce any more usable horsepower above 13k rpm due to the fuel restriction, it's just flat. If they uncorked these babies, you might seen 1000bhp out of them and some real racing

I was just saing what Stefano said.
These are his words: "I think that area is an area we need to improve. I know it seems not logical but the more power that you have, the less you stay on full throttle so you also benefit on the fuel"

[GrndLkNatv]

I was just saing what Stefano said.
These are his words: "I think that area is an area we need to improve. I know it seems not logical but the more power that you have, the less you stay on full throttle so you also benefit on the fuel"

Regardless of where you are on the throttle it takes 1/2 lb of fuel per horsepower per hour. If you have more horsepower and you use it, you burn more fuel.

[hrc5555]

Regardless of where you are on the throttle it takes 1/2 lb of fuel per horsepower per hour. If you have more horsepower and you use it, you burn more fuel.

I don't understand, Stefano does not know what is he talking about or how do you explain his words?

[Majki2111]

OK, can someone sum it up for me, please?
F14T is a good car in terms of aero, but Ferrari PU is bad. So far it has been said that F14T is overweight by 18 kg and that Ferrrari has a problem with power delivering, torqe, pure power of an engine and that Ferrari can't use the full power of it's engine 'cause of electronics and that they can not use full energy of ERS system. It has been said that they have a software problem of MGU-K and turbine and it has been said that they have problem with electronics.
What is true of all the statements up here/what can be considered true??

[mrnl]

The talk about being significantly down on outright power is nonsense, and clearly so are the 900 hp Mercedes rumours, once you do the maths for PU efficiency in a fuel flow restricted formula.

Regardless, the main issue is power delivery and hence the extracted power from the PU that's immediately available. There are some significant peaks which affect torque, gearing and stability under breaking, that in turn has a negative effect on fuel consumption and tyre wear. It can as well affect cornering. To manage those, it is better to run at reduced power so peaks are smaller and more manageable. That, for sure, slows down laptimes but not as much as the former scenario. Furthermore, it decreases the chances of component failure due to the inconsistent power input. In fact, there are signs of excessive and premature strain and overheating at the back.

Overall, it is a fairly complex problem to resolve. Partially it is a result of not knowing the car well enough as of yet to set it up well so will improve with time with experimenting with different maps and updating the software. By the looks of it, some minor redesigning will have to take place too, which sits well under the 'for reliability purposes' clause. The latter would take more time due to approval needed and manufacturing times.

I guess the positives to take from this are that the issues are known and being worked upon. As well as the fact that there are good things to be said about the aerodynamic performance of the F14T. It's behaving predictably which will help with introducing aero updates at a steady pace, though initially a bit slower due to prioritising the work on the PU side.

[Majki2111]

Thanks. What about ERS?

[eugene22n]

Was it just me or did our DRS look particularly ineffective during the race? Compared to say McLaren & Williams? If so it indicates that we were either on a higher downforce setup or had higher relative drag. Both those scenarios are bad.

[anakin]

I think the combustion engine is limited to a certain power because of the regulations.
I believe mercedes engines also.
I think the ERS or the electrical motor or the software make the difference.

[Senna4Ever]

Was it just me or did our DRS look particularly ineffective during the race? Compared to say McLaren & Williams? If so it indicates that we were either on a higher downforce setup or had higher relative drag. Both those scenarios are bad.

When I remember correctly our manager told that the car is good in the (mid-speed) corners itself (despite the breaking into the corners) but have weakness on the straights. As seen on the straights where Alonso and Kimi used DRS but weren't able to close the gap to the car ahead. (Overtaking completely not possible). But maybe it was also due to the electronic problems ... who knows ...

But compared how Magnussen was snuffing limping Hamilton outside the DRS zone ... and Alonso wasn't nearly in the same position in DRS zone our system seemed to be a bit ineffective ...

but as I said: may due to the electrical issues in the first 10 laps ...

[Nick Singer]

Exactly.. Plus the engines don't produce any more usable horsepower above 13k rpm due to the fuel restriction, it's just flat. If they uncorked these babies, you might seen 1000bhp out of them and some real racing

I may be wrong but isn't the 1.5L/ 4-cylinder BMW turbo said to have hit almost 1500bhp in qualifying trim, many, many moons ago?

#Shattering!

[mark p]

I may be wrong but isn't the 1.5L/ 4-cylinder BMW turbo said to have hit almost 1500bhp in qualifying trim, many, many moons ago?

#Shattering!

In that era they had engines for quali then different engines for the race. They could also use as many engines as they want this year you have 5 for the season. Given same rules as the 80's you could see well over 2000hp at a guess.

[Ferrari Man]

Forgive me I dont have any technical knowledge.. I have been reading in the posts about us still having problems with traction... How is this possible with a completely new car from last year. I remember not so long ago traction was one of our strengths..

[Hornet]

Forgive me I dont have any technical knowledge.. I have been reading in the posts about us still having problems with traction... How is this possible with a completely new car from last year. I remember not so long ago traction was one of our strengths..

Well actually in recent years, traction was our weakness. We did badly at tracks like Hungary, Monaco and Singapore due to those tracks having many slow corners.

From what the team is saying, I think our main issue now is the power unit (not sure exactly which area of the PU, it's so complex), and braking.

[bondilad]

HubMar.18 (GMM) Bernie Ecclestone has vowed to get to work on making Formula One loud again.

The F1 chief executive said he is "horrified" by the purring tones of the new turbo V6 era, arguing it will drive race promoters and spectators away.

Ecclestone was critical of the new engine formula long before the first 1.6 litre 'power unit' was fired up, but his latest comments follow Melbourne race organisers' claim the low volume may even be a breach of contract.

"It's not what we paid for. It's going to change," Australian Grand Prix chairman Ron Walker told Melbourne's Age newspaper.

Walker said he has spoken to his friend Ecclestone already, while Ecclestone admitted he has been on the phone to FIA president Jean Todt.

"What I've said is that we need to see whether there is some way of making them sound like racing cars," the 83-year-old Briton told the Telegraph.

"I don't know whether it's possible but we should investigate.

"I think let's get the first few races out of the way and then maybe look to do something. We can't wait all season. It could be too late by then," said Ecclestone.


I was wondering if ferrari were to modify the sound produced by these engines, can we actually use this opportunity to claw back on some of the performance deficit to Merc engines?

Or it would be impossible since the engine development is frozen for this year?

[Hornet]

I was wondering if ferrari were to modify the sound produced by these engines, can we actually use this opportunity to claw back on some of the performance deficit to Merc engines?

Or it would be impossible since the engine development is frozen for this year?

I'm not sure how they are going to do that, unless they revisit the fuel limit as well as technical rules in order to encourage the engine running at high RPM again.

But anyway, I really don't think such changes will occur this year. We have the rules regarding 5 engines limit so it's difficult to allow sweeping changes. The engine freeze will still remain. They have agreed to allow some performance changes next year, so that's where it will start, if anything.

[erikejw]

Here, you tell me if I am in PR: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstephens

Dont't feed the troll.
They are attention xxxxxxs and they feed on others attention. That makes them feel important.
They are trolls due to low selfesteem.