F14-T- Development & News

[Ferris]

But this is the F14T Development thread, not a McLaren forum so lets move on.

Yes. Let's focus on moving up the grid. Lot's of time to gain. The good news is we are handling well on the aero front but not as good as RB it seems.
I like having Ron back in F1. Every team needs their arch nemesis and for us it is Ron and McLaren. We drove each other to extremes just ask Todt and Ron themselves.

I think Stefano needs to spend some time with Todt and hope his approach to racing rubs off. I miss Todt. He was a little bull. The best thing Luca ever did for Ferrari was putting that man in charge of it!

[hudson77]

I'm trying too understand the ers system? Does it mean that too run at a pace with ers not at full power we are using more fuel from the engine making it more thirsty?

One would think so, but the complexity of these new "power units" I for one don't know how it all runs together, or what influences the different components have on each others efficiency and performance. And trying to figure it out is giving me a headache

[Winter]

I'm trying too understand the ers system? Does it mean that too run at a pace with ers not at full power we are using more fuel from the engine making it more thirsty?

Engine doesn't get more thirsty, but you need to get more power from it to compensate lack of power from ERS and that burns fuel.

[mark p]

Hey man, I dislike McLaren as much as the next Tifoso, but they are good at developing the car and often come up with unique designs and solutions. If you remember, they had the fastest car at the end of 2012 winning in both Texas and Brazil along with leading Singapore until Hamilton has DNF'd. They were probably the most deserving team to win the championship that year but some awful pit stops, not leaving a liter of fuel for Hamilton in Spain, questionable strategy calls and some untimely reliability problems were their undoing. Their poor conversion of opportunities over the last decade has often come down more to Strategy and politics (see 2007) than anything else.

But this is the F14T Development thread, not a McLaren forum so lets move on.

No better than anyone infact about 3rd or 4th best. They messed up last year with a working wind tunnel. 2007 Cheated and 2008 was effectivly a Ferrari. I feel happy to beat up on them at any opportunity.

On the F14 this rumour of software upgrade is for Bahrain. Seems strange not Malaysia as only 1 week difference. Could it be that marginal as if software is upgraded you are not playing with lead times on manufacturing components, if you know you have it you upload it, someone please enlighten me?

[Ferris]

Seems Tobias may be wrong... http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie...676&start=1425

So hard to get reliable information on these power units to determine just where we stand or where we could end up in time on the performance front.

[Kiwi Nick]

Yes. Let's focus on moving up the grid. Lot's of time to gain. The good news is we are handling well on the aero front but not as good as RB it seems.
I like having Ron back in F1. Every team needs their arch nemesis and for us it is Ron and McLaren. We drove each other to extremes just ask Todt and Ron themselves.

I think Stefano needs to spend some time with Todt and hope his approach to racing rubs off. I miss Todt. He was a little bull. The best thing Luca ever did for Ferrari was putting that man in charge of it!

I agree 100%. Napoleon complex is way under rated.

[Kiwi Nick]

I'm trying too understand the ers system? Does it mean that too run at a pace with ers not at full power we are using more fuel from the engine making it more thirsty?

The ERS is meant to supply additional power. It is, in fact, a second motor. How much power it provides and when is a function of how the team has programmed the system. But that too is limited to a certain KW, for a certain length of time per lap.

These numbers are not really what the PU puts out but let's use them for discussion. If the ICE makes 600hp and the ERS has a maximum out put of 150hp, that is a total of 750hp that can be used at the maximum. If the ERS is down 30% form its maximum output that means that it only puts out about 100hp, so there is only 700hp available, maximum instead of 750hp. Because the flow rate of fuel to the ICE is limited, the ICE cannot make up the difference. That means a car with a malfunctioning ERS cannot use as much power as a car whose ERS is functioning properly. The reason that it does not affect the fuel consumption very much is because the flow rate of the fuel is limited.

This is what is happening when they say Ferrari are down 30% on ERS power. Obviously, a car does not operate at maximum power all the time, but when it is needed, like on a long strait or under heavy acceleration, it will make a big difference.

[Jas]

great explanation, Ted from sky, take note

[Kiwi Nick]

Seems Tobias may be wrong... http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie...676&start=1425

So hard to get reliable information on these power units to determine just where we stand or where we could end up in time on the performance front.

His description of the turbo/MGU-H unit layout on the Ferrari does not match the layout of the unit on the Mercedes. Mercedes does not put the MGU-H in the V.

[SilverSpeed]

Domenicali said: "The more power you have, the less you stay on full throttle - so you have many benefits on the fuel consumption side. The cat has to bite the tail.

Can someone explain that to me about more power, less on full throttle.

[gjoko-mkd]

As a usual, I`ve put some lights on the pictures

F14 T


Marrusia

[Dino]

That 30% would help more than just that half a second in lap time, it would save fuel too and make it possible to push more of those "racing" laps.
I mean had we even chance to take all out of our combustion unit if ERS wasn't used at full, or was the comb.engine turned down too for saving fuel?

Exactly what i think is happening Winter.The engine is working harder and burning more fuel because there is not that much help from the ERS.What i am still not understaning is;
1.Are we missing 30% of the ERS total power?............or
2.Are we missing 30% of the 30 seconds of the ERS every lap?

[Ferris]

Exactly what i think is happening Winter.The engine is working harder and burning more fuel because there is not that much help from the ERS.What i am still not understaning is;
1.Are we missing 30% of the ERS total power?............or
2.Are we missing 30% of the 30 seconds of the ERS every lap?

It doesn't really matter whether they are losing power or duration of usage as the performance of the unit is measured in energy which is a factor of power and time.

Having said this, the information we do have would point to the ERS not running for the maximum allowed duration as there have been rumours of overheating. However that does not mean we are performing at the maximum power level either...

Both running at lower than expected peak power and less duration due to excessive heat are unique challenges and will take some smarts to overcome.

[Hornet]

As a usual, I`ve put some lights on the pictures

F14 T

Marrusia

Awesome pictures, thanks for sharing
Anyone knows, judging by the Marussia picture, if our compressor is located at the front or back of the engine?

[eugene22n]

If you can get from point A to point B quicker than another car using the same amount of fuel (and the fuel flow rate is capped) then you have effectively been at full throttle (assuming conditions allowed you to be at full throttle) for a shorter period of time since you got there quicker. The end result is the more powerful car using less fuel.

I believe Top Gear did a show where they raced a Prius and then had am M3 match the time and the M3 proved more fuel efficient. Similar idea.

[gjoko-mkd]

At last I can see that the exhaust is different that one of the F14t. The angle is different and more vertical than at Marussia one

[Avanzamento]

From Leo Turrini blog: http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2...er-ers-e-kers/

Google translation:

Ferrari to reshuffle Ers and Kers

I've got news for you .

Preceded by what surely will be , under the commentary of my priceless friend of Robben : ' until they will go Montezemolo and Domenicali, however, nothing will change ' ( hello ADR and strength Bayern , God forbid ) .

After that .

Ferrari in the embarrassing flop of Melbourne has had its consequences.

During the week , they were replaced makers of the hybrid . To understand this , there are new heads to deal with ERS and KERS .

Internal promotions .

The names I'm not even them there to do, it is not celebrities.

The important fact is that the Australian events have had a train heavy. Style immediate reaction. Do it or die .

As the engineer Marmorini , the head of the motorists, has remained in his place, seems to understand that the feeling is confirmed that the F 14 T missing more than fifty horsepower ( compared to Mercedes) due to poor functioning of the electrical and media endothermic to the turbo .

The reshuffle , in terms of units , it is a big one .

A Matteo Renzi even stuff that you could afford , at its entrance in the Palazzo Chigi.

Following question , paraphrased from a memorable film by Ettore Scola ( with Sordi, Manfredi and Blier ) .

Will our heroes to find the horses mysteriously disappeared between ERS and a KERS ? ...

How reliable is Leo Turrini?

Edit: there is a list of Ferrari (chief) engineers from f1technical.net (http://www.f1technical.net/news/19033):

Luca Marmorini...Mattia Binotto (deputy head of engines and electronics,) Enrico Gualtieri (engine reliability,) Guido Di Paola (engine design,) Dave Salters (testing,) Daniele Zecchetti (advanced systems development,) Stefano Lovera (electronics) and Thierry Baritaud.

[abbottcostello]

Well the exhaust manifold runs to rear of engine (OK, the ICE), since those gases spin the compressor, I assume it has to be at the back.

Awesome pictures, thanks for sharing
Anyone knows, judging by the Marussia picture, if our compressor is located at the front or back of the engine?

[mark p]

From Leo Turrini blog: http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2...er-ers-e-kers/

Google translation:



How reliable is Leo Turrini?

Edit: there is a list of Ferrari (chief) engineers from f1technical.net (http://www.f1technical.net/news/19033):

Rumours getting better. Was 100 hp deficit then 75 now its only 50. The rumours indicate Ferrari is gaining 25 hp back every fortnight. I find these rumours rather funny.

[Winter]

I think Turrini is reliable. He has very good relationship with Ferrari senior members and get private interviews.
I remember him writing an article about him having dinner with Domenicali and Dom hinted that Kimi will
join Ferrari. He wrote that article when almost everybody expected him to go to RedBull.

[Wildcat]

So in english what does it mean ?

Can we fix it and fix it fast ?

[Cheeseman]

Sorry if this question is a bit of topic but when I think of Ferrari I think big naturally aspirated V8... Isn't this 1.6 turbo business "not really Ferrari"? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just curious l. I don't doubt Ferrari's capability, I just don't associate 1.6 turbo engines with Ferrari

[Hornet]

Sorry if this question is a bit of topic but when I think of Ferrari I think big naturally aspirated V8... Isn't this 1.6 turbo business "not really Ferrari"? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just curious l. I don't doubt Ferrari's capability, I just don't associate 1.6 turbo engines with Ferrari

I think the California T is Ferrari's first turbo car in a while, so it's new (and not V6 anyway). Whatever experience Ferrari had in the past with turbo or V6 is probably irrelevant today. Turbo V6 is probably new territory for Ferrari. Not sure about Merc and Renault though.

[NickEice]

Sorry if this question is a bit of topic but when I think of Ferrari I think big naturally aspirated V8... Isn't this 1.6 turbo business "not really Ferrari"? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just curious l. I don't doubt Ferrari's capability, I just don't associate 1.6 turbo engines with Ferrari

The F40 was only a 2.9 L turbo. So they have done small turbos before, but the technology is so much different today I'm sure not much of the knowledge was transferable. Fiat does have small turbo experience though.

[Kyss4k]

Wait, is Ferrari reshuffling the development team alone or even the KERS / ERS engine layout?

[Red is Best]

Wait, is Ferrari reshuffling the development team alone or even the KERS / ERS engine layout?

The team, not the layout

[tamburello]

So Domenicali says no need to point fingers....and has (reportedly) changed the Heads of departments.

Which is Finger pointing.

The man is a joke.

Those who defend him damage Ferrari with everyday they continue to support him.

[AfterLife]

Huge amount of rumors

[Paulpg87]

here the article from turrini. In italian: http://www.f1passion.it/2014/03/f1-l...one-maranello/

key points:
- changes in motor department due to the big failure of the engine which is way less powerfull than other manufactures after 2 years of development. it's missing hp
- we are slower than more than 1 second from mercedes powered teams (mercedes and williams cited) and in ferrari knew it during tests and it was evident in australia. They hope to recover otherwise could be a disastrous season

Moreover other two articles from autosprint claims:
- RB: " we have used the engine only at 60%" http://autosprint.corrieredellosport...r-cento/13957/
- Mercedes not pushing all the week end, supposed to go way faster


General rumors here are about a disastrous season. Yesterday Briatore in tv said Alonso could leave Ferrari as he's not happy at all.

[Rob]

rumours rumours rumours rumours.