F14-T- Development & News

**Nero Horse** · 15th April 2014, 17:12

Originally Posted by zike

Pat Fry: "Currently, our first priority is to establish ourselves as the second best team.

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud.

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

**pericoloso** · 15th April 2014, 17:31

Even though this statement shows where Ferrari really are and it represents a step forward, this is not a statement I would want to make public. Striving to be the tallest midget isn't exactly reaching for the stars, is it?

**Winter** · 15th April 2014, 17:50

That long wheelbase makes car more understeery and I'd quess it also makes it more difficult to handle in oversteer situations.

**kiwifella** · 15th April 2014, 22:38

Reckon this thread will go quiet for a while now........

**Silent Bob** · 15th April 2014, 22:54

Originally Posted by windwaves

Again, as the poster above notes, the F14T is a failure at ALL levels. And really this has been said by everyone in and out of Ferrari for quite some time.
SD development once again was clearly worth zero. We have seen no updates of substance and nothing coming. Why ? the car is just not even close to where it should be so even if there was a dvpt plan it was rendered totally useless once the reality on track was revealed.

Peace.

I am excited about Ferrari finally changing things at the top. It is only the beginning. Lets support the new guy, MM. He has got some very very difficult times ahead to say the least.

With SD gone, Pat Fry basically saying current situation is hopeless, I suspect he knows even fighting for 2nd is going to be very difficult, at best.

You're getting about as repetitive as Domenicalli was with his "stay calm" mantas. We get it, the car isn't very quick.

**Ferris** · 16th April 2014, 00:35

Stefano made his biggest error during 2008 and 2010. This was the time he should have invested in the f1 team around better CFD, simulator and wind tunnel upgrades.
He didn't and these things eventually bite you hard as they did in 2010 and 2012 when a little bit of extra speed which would have been aided by a functioning wind tunnel would have provided just the right amount of addition speed to win those titles.

2014 issues are down to Ferrari having no experience in the turbo arena unlike Merc. They had the experience and started investing in the project heavily more than 2 years ago with more resources than Ferrari or Renault.

**windwaves** · 16th April 2014, 02:04

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

You're getting about as repetitive as Domenicalli was with his "stay calm" mantas. We get it, the car isn't very quick.

sorry about that.

I was trying to emphasize the fact that it is not, I repeat, it is not just the PU. The PU is a giant failure of course (I suspect Marmorino is packing up already) but it seems all the rest is just as bad.

Oh well, MM has his hands full !!!!!

**stefa** · 16th April 2014, 07:54

Originally Posted by Nero Horse

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud.

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

Exactly

**The Architect** · 16th April 2014, 08:48

I think it's obvious by reading his full comments (posted in another thread), that he was referring to the immediate priority which I think is very true and reasonable. Overreacting in this way doesn't do us any favours.

Unfortunately, the Ferrari looks quite a bit fatter than the Mercedes engine cars, so this is going to be very difficult.

**Muhammad Ansib** · 16th April 2014, 09:20

Originally Posted by Nero Horse

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud.

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

I think firstly Fry is trying to downplay expectations as usual and its obvious that Ferrari cant really match Mercedes in the short term But long term objective is to be a title contender(atleast I hope so)

**AfterLife** · 16th April 2014, 09:31

Originally Posted by Alonso14

Maaan, the Toro Rosso, Macca and FI are all so much thinner at the back. That's a huge disadvantage for us. :(

Maybe it is because of different cooling solution.

**PadGeT** · 16th April 2014, 11:00

Shanghai International Circuit, China (16/04/2014)

**Hornet** · 16th April 2014, 11:11

Edit: I assume that picture is from China

Looks like the blown wheel nut tested in Bahrain. Hopefully this means it's working

**Majki2111** · 16th April 2014, 11:11

Finally some pictures here. Conversation here since Bahrain has been awful.

**Alesi1** · 16th April 2014, 12:44

Originally Posted by Majki2111

Finally some pictures here. Conversation here since Bahrain has been awful.

We may as well start the race now, perhaps we may still be ahead come the last lap on Sunday. :)
(sorry mood ain't gonna change mate)

**Muhammad Ansib** · 16th April 2014, 13:35

I want to see Newer Front wings Mercedes or McLaren style and more vortex generators on it. cuz we have stuck to the Wing which was brought forward from last year and tested in bahrain test. Mercedes, Redbull and Mclaren have brought up at least 2 new wings since then and we have nothing... where the upgrades???

**PadGeT** · 16th April 2014, 13:41

Originally Posted by Muhammad Ansib

I want to see Newer Front wings Mercedes or McLaren style and more vortex generators on it. cuz we have stuck to the Wing which was brought forward from last year and tested in bahrain test. Mercedes, Redbull and Mclaren have brought up at least 2 new wings since then and we have nothing... where the upgrades???

Don't worry, FW evolution is one of key developmental areas for every team.

**Nova** · 16th April 2014, 15:01

Looking at this new car, Im wondering just how new it is and just what it is that can be developed. It retains the same basic suspension as last year, which in my opinion
was a wrong decision. If they could have made it work better then, they wouldve. It looks, from the in car vids, that the car isnt stable, and a real handful to drive. If 2 of the best racers in F1 cannot drive it, something is terribly wrong. Whoever made the decision to keep a suspension setup that has proved to be unsuccessful made the incorrect decision. If it was never successful on any car, why burden yourself with the extra task of trying to do so, on top of trying to make a new engine formula work at maximum power. When I look at RB, their car still looks like it is glued to the track and looks very similar to their successful chassis of the last few years. I was under the impression that the F14 was to be a totally new car.

I also think the tire compounds come into play here. If our chassis did not work with the compounds brought in last year, 1st priority should have been to build a chassis that does work with this compound. Get that sorted, then u can work on the power. As it stands now, the car doesnt handle well AND is down on power. Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

**PadGeT** · 16th April 2014, 16:32

Originally Posted by Nova

Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?

**Muhammad Ansib** · 16th April 2014, 16:50

Originally Posted by Nova

Looking at this new car, Im wondering just how new it is and just what it is that can be developed. It retains the same basic suspension as last year, which in my opinion
was a wrong decision. If they could have made it work better then, they wouldve. It looks, from the in car vids, that the car isnt stable, and a real handful to drive. If 2 of the best racers in F1 cannot drive it, something is terribly wrong. Whoever made the decision to keep a suspension setup that has proved to be unsuccessful made the incorrect decision. If it was never successful on any car, why burden yourself with the extra task of trying to do so, on top of trying to make a new engine formula work at maximum power. When I look at RB, their car still looks like it is glued to the track and looks very similar to their successful chassis of the last few years. I was under the impression that the F14 was to be a totally new car.

I also think the tire compounds come into play here. If our chassis did not work with the compounds brought in last year, 1st priority should have been to build a chassis that does work with this compound. Get that sorted, then u can work on the power. As it stands now, the car doesnt handle well AND is down on power. Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

You Sir are absolutely correct with the argument of the Suspension layout cuz I mean even the McLaren have ditched the Pull-Rod layout(at the front) and they are known to be very good In-season Developers and making dogs into competitive cars and most Important of all the best Car (Chasis wise) is RBR and they only have pull rod layout at the rear cuz it helps with the aero(same has been since 2009 and they were the ones who introduced it!) and the fatest car the W05 also same so why have we stuck to it, Could it be that we know something others dont or we are following out own development path that others arent and are probably ahead of us?

**Kiwi Nick** · 16th April 2014, 16:55

Originally Posted by PadGeT

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?

New design team.

**PadGeT** · 16th April 2014, 17:11

Originally Posted by Kiwi Nick

New design team.

Who would you sign, given the power, to remove our weakness? Unfortunately, this sport isnt a quick fix one.

**PadGeT** · 16th April 2014, 17:16

Originally Posted by Muhammad Ansib

You Sir are absolutely correct with the argument of the Suspension layout cuz I mean even the McLaren have ditched the Pull-Rod layout(at the front) and they are known to be very good In-season Developers and making dogs into competitive cars and most Important of all the best Car (Chasis wise) is RBR and they only have pull rod layout at the rear cuz it helps with the aero(same has been since 2009 and they were the ones who introduced it!) and the fatest car the W05 also same so why have we stuck to it, Could it be that we know something others dont or we are following out own development path that others arent and are probably ahead of us?

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.

**abbottcostello** · 17th April 2014, 01:32

Originally Posted by PadGeT

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.

Wasn't that all to do with removing torsion springs on rear suspensions & only running the bump rubber, when everyone was contemplating pull rod, like 2010-2011? Seem to remember reading about it on Scarbs, but not fully understanding, except that front sups. = stiff, rear sups. = soft leads to better aero or at least more uniform/stable?

**Nova** · 17th April 2014, 02:45

Originally Posted by PadGeT

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.

If it is minimal, why cant they make it work? Most of the cars look a lot more stable, easier to drive, and mabey easier to adapt setup changes to different tracks.
If something doesnt work, it has to be changed. If Ferrari knows something about this setup the other teams dont, Id suggest they use it.
Id hate to think that something is fundamentally incorrect with this chassis.

It pains me to see us running so low on the grid.

**Hornet** · 17th April 2014, 05:09

Originally Posted by Nova

If it is minimal, why cant they make it work? Most of the cars look a lot more stable, easier to drive, and mabey easier to adapt setup changes to different tracks.
If something doesnt work, it has to be changed. If Ferrari knows something about this setup the other teams dont, Id suggest they use it.
Id hate to think that something is fundamentally incorrect with this chassis.

It pains me to see us running so low on the grid.

I don't think our problem is front push rod. In terms of mechanical performance, push rod and pull rod is exactly the same. Only difference is in terms of aero, where pull rod is almost horizontal hence it's almost in line with the wake from the front wing.

Our drivability issues comes from how power is being delivered. This year, Mercedes PU is the best at power delivery as well, not just maximum output. Last year, Red Bull had the advantage due to their throttle mapping which controls how much torque is produced during acceleration.

**brembo man** · 17th April 2014, 05:49

Double diffusors, throttle mapping, what are we waiting for? Get Briatori to Ferrari immed.

**mark p** · 17th April 2014, 08:44

1st pics from China show Merc have passed a crash test for a new higher nose maximising their clever horse shoe shaped crash structure to feed even more undisturbed air under the nose. Although impossible for us to know the advantage logically it seems an incredibly good idea. Any pictures yet of what Ferrari have got?

This is the advantage of having the pu sorted in that you can fully concentrate on other areas to further an advantage.

China may well suit Ferrari more so may be better relative to rest compared to Bharain but the acid test will be what happen on that long straight. Surely there will be some underskin improvements as they must have known the performance issue with the pu since the 1st test over 2 months ago.

**Laferrari** · 17th April 2014, 09:16

Originally Posted by PadGeT

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?

We expect them to change the concept , the concept of this F14T is the same than 3 years ago.acer duc,front suspension ,and basic fron wing.There is no miracle in F1 , when your have a bad concept you can t involve with that to a rocketship.They build again a dog , with to much hole behind (cooling problem, installation of the engine?,the design is wrong and everyone in paddock say the same thing about the philosophy).