F14-T- Development & News

[zike]

yes, that is confirmed somewhere else by Gian Carlo Minardi.

He believes continued improvements are expected from fuel research. This was actually very much discussed pre-season, that is, how Ferrari was counting on certain developments in the works at Shell.

And of course Helmut fails to mention that another big piece of the progress is a guy named Alonso.

But, yes, not much really otherwise in terms of the car development, yet.

cool, cant wait Barcelona

[DIEK]

[Rosso Corsa]

And of course Helmut fails to mention that another big piece of the progress is a guy named Alonso.

What progress did Fernando bring? I think you meant to say the progress that Stefano orchestrated, that allowed Fernando's sensational driving skills to count for more points

[mrnl]

Racing in F1 is a team exercise so yesterday's result was due to management, engineers, suppliers, drivers and mechanics alike. Anyways, good effort. But no one stands still and Barcelona is crucial. Update will be significant as is expected but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a B spec as there's nothing fundamentally flawed in the "A spec".

[FerrariF60]

Racing in F1 is a team exercise so yesterday's result was due to management, engineers, suppliers, drivers and mechanics alike. Anyways, good effort. But no one stands still and Barcelona is crucial. Update will be significant as is expected but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a B spec as there's nothing fundamentally flawed in the "A spec".

exactly, the A spec car is just fine...it just needs to be a bit more fine tuned as well as getting more power from teh ERS so that finally we can run it at 100%

[RedPassion]

exactly, the A spec car is just fine...it just needs to be a bit more fine tuned as well as getting more power from teh ERS so that finally we can run it at 100%

Spot on!We have finally a very good car on the aerodynamical point of view,proof that the new wind tunnel and the new methologies work and that our technical direction is working fine, working only on the areas of the car that really bring performance avoiding wasting resources.

[Nero Horse]

If in Spain we could make a similar big step forward as we did in the 2012 season then we could definitely be on par with Merc, or perhaps even faster. And these 3 weeks should certainly be enough time to make such a big leap forward. Realistically I know that it's going to be very difficult to catch Merc, but after the nice improvement we made in China I don't think it's totally unrealistic to hope that we can catch or at least be very close to Merc in Spain. All the naysayers will of course say that it won't happen, but I'm still hoping and if the team keeps working really hard and brings good, efficient updates to Spain, then I honestly can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to catch Merc. It's doable!

[windwaves]

What progress did Fernando bring? I think you meant to say the progress that Stefano orchestrated, that allowed Fernando's sensational driving skills to count for more points

Absolutely not what I mean.

SD is the reason we lost titles that were for us to take.
FA is how Ferrari managed to save a bit of face in spite of repeated management failures and an inferior car.

The good nees is SD is finally history and FA is still with us, driving incredibly well as he can and as motivated as ever with new management.

[Majki2111]

[bonzo]

If in Spain we could make a similar big step forward as we did in the 2012 season then we could definitely be on par with Merc, or perhaps even faster. And these 3 weeks should certainly be enough time to make such a big leap forward. Realistically I know that it's going to be very difficult to catch Merc, but after the nice improvement we made in China I don't think it's totally unrealistic to hope that we can catch or at least be very close to Merc in Spain. All the naysayers will of course say that it won't happen, but I'm still hoping and if the team keeps working really hard and brings good, efficient updates to Spain, then I honestly can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to catch Merc. It's doable!

Yes, of course, and especially if Merc start downgrading development

[Gould]

Helmut marko says

I'll start listening to that fool when hell freezes over LOL

[Nero Horse]

Yes, of course, and especially if Merc start downgrading development

Regardless of what Merc does, we can still catch them, all we need is to bring better updates than them, it's as simple as that. And getting our PU to work on full power would certainly help a lot as well.

[PadGeT]

The shape at which the duct exits out of the front axle baffles me. Its pointing towards the front wing. Is it because the shape of airflow is being determined by its position round the axle ?
I was under the false impression that FIA tried to clamp down when teams were using brake ducts and wheelnuts as aero devices. The thing that Red Bull RB8 was not allowed to do was put holes around the edge of the wheel nut , because then its becoming a movable aero device which is a big 'no no' in F1 at present. And the Williams thing was abandoned due to its effect on coanda at the back. A reasonable amt. of development has already been carried on by several teams keeping in mind that its going to benefit the outwash with the reduced FW width in 2014.
All in all, nice bit of aero upgrade by Ferrari. But i still don't get the design of the duct and it asymmetry. Again since the axle is moving, wont this still be another movable aero device?
I remember in F10, the wheelnut was doing some movable aero performance too. Here is a pic -


From the gif, it does look to me increasingly that the duct is moving. Can anyone confirm.

[mark p]

Well Merc is obviously ahead with the engine. Not only the power, but the power delivery as well and that improves driveability. That's why they have great traction out of slow corners probably. But it won't help you in high speed turns, thats where aero comes. And as they look smoother, with less corrections, they have bigger downforce than us. Not by as huge margin as they are better in the engine department though.

Sounds in line with my thoughts. Ferrari have said they need to catch up in a few areas so cannot be all pu. I had a guestimate 90 percent pu the rest other areas? (Not accurate but i hope you get where i am coming from.)

[DIEK]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../917/1178.html


http://www.formula1.com/wi/full/ta_a...ticle_1178.jpg

Ferrari introduced a new front axle and brake duct assembly in Shanghai that bleeds airflow from the brake cooling duct through a duct in the centre of the axle. The idea is to direct this airflow through the axle so that it exits just behind the front tyre, into a low pressure area where the flow is coming away from the ground. When working correctly, this concept will make brake cooling much more efficient and will also reduce the overall drag of the car. However, it is by no means a new idea - Williams used it in 2013 and Red Bull currently run a similar system.



http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/0/1173.html


http://www.formula1.com/wi/full/ta_a...ticle_1173.jpg

Locating the internal combustion engine on a 2014 Formula One car is akin to finding a needle in a hay stack, but beneath all those ducts and coolers there really is a 1600cc V6. This drawing highlights the key elements of the engine packaging and illustrates why maintaining these cars is so much more work than in previous seasons.
1: Where the exhaust's primary pipes meet up into the tail pipe.
2: The connection from the tail pipe to the turbo.
3: With the engine sitting so low in the chassis, Mercedes have included this raised stiffening rib between the front engine-to-chassis mounting and the interface between the engine and gearbox. This helps maximise torsional stiffness, something vitally important to an F1 car's performance, as the cornering loads from the front to rear axles are all fed through the chassis and engine.
4: One of the many coolers required to maintain the temperatures of the hydraulic oil, gearbox oil, engine oil, water, ERS battery pack and control unit and the intercooler for the forced induction system.
5: A small duct that connects to an exit hole in the top of the engine cover, to assist in cooling one of the many components beneath.
6: A further duct and cooler, probably the gearbox cooler based on its size.
7: The connection from the cold side of the turbo to the airbox itself, where the air pressurised by the turbo is fed into the engine.


http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/

[evo_spook]

Sounds in line with my thoughts. Ferrari have said they need to catch up in a few areas so cannot be all pu. I had a guestimate 90 percent pu the rest other areas? (Not accurate but i hope you get where i am coming from.)

When they mention 90 percent, its not in terms off power, I think some people misunderstand that, I think its more in terms of efficiency which as you say includes traction

[Bertie]

If we see the monkey seat reappear on the car it would suggest we have solved our power issues. I think we are sacrificing this piece to reduce drag, allowing us to be semi-ok on the long straights. The lack of monkey seat may be the reason for reduced traction as its primary role is to extract more air from the diffuser creating more downforce at low speeds and a more stable car. At the moment we can't afford to run a monket seat as we would be sitting ducks on the straights. If we can extract more PU performance we could run a monkey seat which would improve the traction and handling. Front wing changes could also yeild huge gains it seems our front wing lacks complexity and we have not updated it significantly for a while. Compared to other teams it seems less complex in my opinion it looks like we have had to comprimise downforce for drag in this area also as we have gone for a more slippery design. This could be to compensate for low rear downforce and to reduce drag generally or most likely both.

We probablly have a whole load of new parts to produce more downforce that we can't use because the drag penalty is too high for the PU deficiency. There is alot more potential in the car and and the key is sorting the PU, the snowball affect of this could bring seconds not tenths!

[Muhammad Ansib]

If we see the monkey seat reappear on the car it would suggest we have solved our power issues. I think we are sacrificing this piece to reduce drag, allowing us to be semi-ok on the long straights. The lack of monkey seat may be the reason for reduced traction as its primary role is to extract more air from the diffuser creating more downforce at low speeds and a more stable car. At the moment we can't afford to run a monket seat as we would be sitting ducks on the straights. If we can extract more PU performance we could run a monkey seat which would improve the traction and handling. Front wing changes could also yeild huge gains it seems our front wing lacks complexity and we have not updated it significantly for a while. Compared to other teams it seems less complex in my opinion it looks like we have had to comprimise downforce for drag in this area also as we have gone for a more slippery design. This could be to compensate for low rear downforce and to reduce drag generally or most likely both.

We probablly have a whole load of new parts to produce more downforce that we can't use because the drag penalty is too high for the PU deficiency. There is alot more potential in the car and and the key is sorting the PU, the snowball affect of this could bring seconds not tenths!

Spot on, Also I heard James Allison saying previously that the learning curve is very steep for these new F1 cars and gains are going to be huge IA hopefully..Also JamesAllen said that Mercedes might will IA (hopefully for us) face diminishing returns but its just a possiblity.

[PadGeT]

If we see the monkey seat reappear on the car it would suggest we have solved our power issues. I think we are sacrificing this piece to reduce drag, allowing us to be semi-ok on the long straights. The lack of monkey seat may be the reason for reduced traction as its primary role is to extract more air from the diffuser creating more downforce at low speeds and a more stable car. At the moment we can't afford to run a monket seat as we would be sitting ducks on the straights. If we can extract more PU performance we could run a monkey seat which would improve the traction and handling. Front wing changes could also yeild huge gains it seems our front wing lacks complexity and we have not updated it significantly for a while. Compared to other teams it seems less complex in my opinion it looks like we have had to comprimise downforce for drag in this area also as we have gone for a more slippery design. This could be to compensate for low rear downforce and to reduce drag generally or most likely both.

We probablly have a whole load of new parts to produce more downforce that we can't use because the drag penalty is too high for the PU deficiency. There is alot more potential in the car and and the key is sorting the PU, the snowball affect of this could bring seconds not tenths!

The monkey seat or the infamous "Y75 winglet" is not der as a cheap D/F generator, as you think. I think L/D ratio of it is way worse than to a beam wing for its low aspect ratio. So it can be safely be assumed its not there as source of d/f. Its more sophisticated than that, I believe.



Here, Maccas placed the device on the beam wing itself. The distances with main wing, beam wing and diffuser are all pretty similar. So your theory as acting as an extraction augmentor may be possible. I doubt they act as beam wing performance. Diffuser extraction might be minimal too, cause the less AoA diffusers ending plane have nowadays. Next we have the main wing. Its here I believe the device is most beneficial. The device's shape and AoA decides the way the flow at the bottom of main wing flap (low pressure) is energised and helps in reattatchment of any possible separation. The upwash would help the centre of main wing workin at higher AoA than might be possible for the relatively turbulent air behind.



The beam wing worked more efficiently as a diffuser extraction augmentor, imo. But with the removal of beam wing now, teams have to bolt it on the rear crash structure, which makes it have lower aspect ratio as you can in Ferrari's. case So if u see a rear monkey set, it means teams are trying to extract more performance out of their rear wing Since they have poor D/F extraction capabilities from their RW alone.
Red BUll's Monkey is a solution thats working the diffuser harder as it was the first one to be located below the exhaust positioning centre line. Haven't yet figured out its intricate working. Might be that with no end plate (better A/R), they are trying to let the tip vortices be rolled underneath to create more acclerating airflow under the diffuser.

[abbottcostello]

Was wondering if it would be possible for Ferrari (& Renault for that matter) would be trying to change their Turbo/MGU-H configuration to get the benefits Mercedes are realizing?

According to Formula1 website technical section about the Mercedes PU "retro fitting a similar solution will be very difficult for the other power unit manufacturers." ( http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../917/1176.html ).

Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, hope Ferrari can prove that statement wrong! Even better if they had it copied by Barcelona. One can only hope!

[mark p]

When they mention 90 percent, its not in terms off power, I think some people misunderstand that, I think its more in terms of efficiency which as you say includes traction

Appreciated. I meant the proportion of where the car needs to improve. I should not have quoted a percentage I meant the car will mainly improve on the pu and to a lesser extent the aero but it probably needs to improve in both.

[F1NAC]

Was wondering if it would be possible for Ferrari (& Renault for that matter) would be trying to change their Turbo/MGU-H configuration to get the benefits Mercedes are realizing?

According to Formula1 website technical section about the Mercedes PU "retro fitting a similar solution will be very difficult for the other power unit manufacturers." ( http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../917/1176.html ).

Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, hope Ferrari can prove that statement wrong! Even better if they had it copied by Barcelona. One can only hope!

they can't do that, PU are frozen!!!

[abbottcostello]

they can't do that, PU are frozen!!!

Changes for reliability or safety are acceptable. I think even with my limited F1 knowledge, I could manage to make a case for increased reliability for "isolating the MGU-H & compressor side of turbo both from the exhaust side of the turbo. Also, not sure if those parts fall under the engine homologation yet.

[F1NAC]

Changes for reliability or safety are acceptable. I think even with my limited F1 knowledge, I could manage to make a case for increased reliability for "isolating the MGU-H & compressor side of turbo both from the exhaust side of the turbo. Also, not sure if those parts fall under the engine homologation yet.

MGU h MGU k TC, ICE are all under homologation because they are called Power Unit, it isn't only engine frozen engine is just a part of PU

[SinanOzerS]

[medeni73]

According to Autosprint (http://autosprint.corrieredellosport...viluppi/14870/)
Ferrari will also introduce new nose (beeing already crash-tested) in Spain...

[zike]

According to Autosprint (http://autosprint.corrieredellosport...viluppi/14870/)
Ferrari will also introduce new nose (beeing already crash-tested) in Spain...

I just hope that the new aero parts and the engine at 100% will bring us extramly close to Merc

[7mi]

I wish we could get rid of that ugly nose by Spain..

[SinanOzerS]

I wish we could get rid of that ugly nose by Spain..

I hope so.

[AfterLife]

I wish we could get rid of that ugly nose by Spain..

Mercedes and Ferrari have the most beautiful nose on the grid. Now if Ferrari are going to introduce a new nose i doubt it will be beautiful.

Edit: I guess that the nose will be the same with some lets say refinements.