F14-T- Development & News

**Majki2111** · 28th May 2014, 09:41

The plumbing network between the turbo, inlet plenums and back into the cylinders is far shorter than the Renault design and slightly less than the Mercedes. This is beneficial because less pipework reduces turbo lag significantly. The MGU-H negotiates turbo lag to a very good effect, but Ferrari’s layout puts less reliance/strain on the latter component to do its job, thus improving reliability to a certain extent.

What is turbo lag? And what does this bold part od sentence means?

**Ed Harley** · 28th May 2014, 09:55

Originally Posted by Majki2111

What is turbo lag?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboch...rbocharger_lag

**Majki2111** · 28th May 2014, 10:03

Originally Posted by Ed Harley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboch...rbocharger_lag

Thank you.
And this bold part?
Still I haven't figured out where does engine lackinig to Mercedes except in mass. Is it software that is so important for drivebility and power delivery? And still they are 1,5 seconds ahead. Is this only the PU? I don't think so. They haad 8th gear reserve all the time. Even in Monaco they used only 6 gears.

**Majki2111** · 28th May 2014, 10:30

Relativly calm trough corners

**Hornet** · 28th May 2014, 11:04

Originally Posted by Majki2111

Thank you.
And this bold part?
Still I haven't figured out where does engine lackinig to Mercedes except in mass. Is it software that is so important for drivebility and power delivery? And still they are 1,5 seconds ahead. Is this only the PU? I don't think so. They haad 8th gear reserve all the time. Even in Monaco they used only 6 gears.

We'll never be able to figure out where our engine is lacking, as all we know is how the engine's outside look like in pictures.

Article analysis can only talk about the theoretical advantage in why the designer chose to do this and that. Is it really working as intended in reality? only Ferrari knows as you need all the data on how every part of the engine is behaving when it's running to tell what the engine is really doing.

**shamim179** · 28th May 2014, 15:13

So the rationales behind Ferrari's PU design are:

1. Shorter distance between the exhaust and the turbine to reduce turbo lag. This leads to quicker attainment of turbo power.
2. Turbo layout ensures good reliability
3. Disadvantage is greater weight due to thicker housing of the water intercooler for better heat dissipation

Sounds like the Ferrari's PU design is at least good but plagued by how to deploy ERS effectively because of inadequate software setups. We have potential to close the gap significantly to Mercedes. There is more to come from our car provided we take the right steps.

**Gould** · 28th May 2014, 15:54

Turbo lag isn't only caused by the turbo itself but also by the [delayed] pressure build up by the compressor. Having the compressor close to the intercooler works to reduce turbo lag by decreasing the total volume of compressed air (ducting, intercooler internal volume and inlet plenum). So placing the compressor section as close to the intercooler as possible, this total volume of compressed air is reduced, allowing the compressor to bring this volume up to desired pressure much quicker.

**RedRebel40** · 28th May 2014, 20:49

I read somewhere that Mercedes is allready shifting to the next years car faster then on an average year..

**Nero Horse** · 29th May 2014, 00:47

Originally Posted by shamim179

So the rationales behind Ferrari's PU design are:

1. Shorter distance between the exhaust and the turbine to reduce turbo lag. This leads to quicker attainment of turbo power.
2. Turbo layout ensures good reliability
3. Disadvantage is greater weight due to thicker housing of the water intercooler for better heat dissipation

Sounds like the Ferrari's PU design is at least good but plagued by how to deploy ERS effectively because of inadequate software setups. We have potential to close the gap significantly to Mercedes. There is more to come from our car provided we take the right steps.

+1

Well said. And let's hope that these right steps will be taken in the Canadian GP.

**abbottcostello** · 29th May 2014, 07:11

Maybe our PU deficiency is not as unsolvable as many of us feared as long as the team can get the engine maps optimized. This would be a great time for Allison's aero genius to come to the fore, as well.
It's about time we were pleasantly surprised by an update package, I'm holding my breath on this one for Canada, come on JA, please make our day!!!

**blaney1977** · 29th May 2014, 08:35

Hopefully this upgrade is the start of the Allison input coming to fruition and like stated before the engine department starting too understand how too get the best out of it. Hopefully some momentum now and gap closing every race

**Majki2111** · 29th May 2014, 10:00

Was it said that aero updates will come in Austria?

**gjoko-mkd** · 29th May 2014, 10:27

Or in AUSTRALIA(2015) maybe

**wacc** · 29th May 2014, 10:58

Originally Posted by Majki2111

Was it said that aero updates will come in Austria?

It was only a rumour by pitlanetalk.

**Gould** · 29th May 2014, 11:16

Who knows, maybe the stars will align and we'll see something like this beauty:

**PURE PASSION** · 29th May 2014, 11:34

Originally Posted by Gould

Who knows, maybe the stars will align and we'll see something like this beauty:

whatever makes it FASTER!!!!!

**Dino** · 29th May 2014, 22:02

Originally Posted by blaney1977

Hopefully this upgrade is the start of the Allison input coming to fruition and like stated before the engine department starting too understand how too get the best out of it. Hopefully some momentum now and gap closing every race

http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2014...u.html?refresh

Ferrari in Canada con 30 Cv in più...............+30 BHP For Canada!

**Gould** · 29th May 2014, 22:35

30 BHP would be mega, thats about 5%! Add to that some software updates and MGU torque delivery updates and we might even see some smiles from the red garage!

**Nero Horse** · 29th May 2014, 23:18

Originally Posted by Gould

30 BHP would be mega, thats about 5%! Add to that some software updates and MGU torque delivery updates and we might even see some smiles from the red garage!

That would be absolutely fantastic, amazing, wonderful and more!

But I'm still trying not to get too carried away with these beautiful dreams just yet, cause these are currently only stories and rumors, which hopefully will finally come true next week.

**Dino** · 29th May 2014, 23:18

Originally Posted by Gould

30 BHP would be mega, thats about 5%! Add to that some software updates and MGU torque delivery updates and we might even see some smiles from the red garage!

30 bhp can be very handy....better acceleration....+....better top speed....or....more aggresive wings to corner faster!

**abbottcostello** · 29th May 2014, 23:28

Trying not to get too carried away, but doesn't seem as James Allison has been prone to making claims in the recent past like he just did. This alone makes me a bit more optimistic that we may see some improved pace.

**Nero Horse** · 29th May 2014, 23:42

James Allen: "Ferrari will have a major aerodynamic update package on the car for Montreal and a significant step on the power unit."

I wonder if this aerodynamic update package will finally be the one with a much bigger input and influence from James Allison?

If so, then maybe we can really expect something positive to come from this.

**Giallo 550** · 30th May 2014, 03:06

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some major improvements, but not getting my hopes up.

**vcs316** · 30th May 2014, 04:30

Agree, lets not get our hopes up or carried away by press articles. Hoping and praying all the articles are true and we do get a aero & engine boost by Canada & then Austria.

**piglett** · 30th May 2014, 07:29

Guys, i've watched the clip in post #3754 "Raikkonen onboard race footage". I can draw the following conclusions:
Our engine is set to be used at a peak of 12k rpm's, while Merc's is at over 13k. I've said this before, this clip just confirmed it.
Our engine has lower compression ratio compared to Merc's.
I'll try to explain: since the bottom end of the engine is locked by the rules(bore and stroke), compression ratio and mixture flow can be controlled thru head chamber design and/or valve duration/lift thru camshafts design.
Higher compression ratio and moderate cam lift/duration means less fuel required, less boost required=faster turbo spool up, higher rev limit, broad torque curve.
Less compression ratio and more cam lift/duration means more fuel required, higher boost=slower turbo spool, lower rev limit, narrower torque curve.
I think Merc's have a high compression engine, and lower torque figures over a large rev range. That king of engine is smoother in the power delivery.
Bear in mind that Merc has had compressor/turbo street cars for ages, while we haven't.
I highly doubt our engineers can remedy the spiky engine delivery thru software mapping.
Hope we'll catch up somehow, i miss Hamilton's fear when Alonso was on his tail...
Just my 2 cents...

**sachin** · 30th May 2014, 07:43

Why do we have to announce all the news about upgrades?
Why cant we just do the work and let the car and drivers do the talking on track?
If we qualify again on the third and fourth row ?
then again we make a fun of ourselves.

God,i hope Allison really has proof of what he is speaking.

**Gould** · 30th May 2014, 09:25

Originally Posted by piglett

I'll try to explain: since the bottom end of the engine is locked by the rules(bore and stroke), compression ratio and mixture flow can be controlled thru head chamber design and/or valve duration/lift thru camshafts design.

Remember that there is not "mixture flow" on these engines and they are all direct fuel injection (by regulation). That means that the pressurized air from the plenum contains no fuel, only air.