Should Ferrari pay more attention to finding a better aerodynamicists and designers?

[Majki2111]

OK, beacuse developing of PU is over and is clearness that Ferrari lacks aero efficiency compared to RBR, should they...?
I mean there must be better aerodynamicists and designers better than Tombazis and Newey in the world. I think they should really start searching them in smaller series of racing than F1 or even outside of racing. I follow Ferrari since Alonso is there and they did nothing compared to RBR nor McLaren. They weren't inovative at all. It all looks like there are working many many people without enough knowlege to be the best for Ferrari, it is big problem since they have a lot of money and people. So they need to maybe start hireing people, not firing them.

OR SHOULD WE STAY CALM AND GIVE THEM MORE TIME?

[shamim179]

Think we need more/better software engineers. And better/more systems engineers. This is much more relevant for this new formula era.

[Greig]

If it was so easy then it would have been done.

[Majki2111]

If it was so easy then it would have been done.

I didn't say it is easy, but it is worth of trying and it is needed if you ask me.

Think we need more/better software engineers. And better/more systems engineers. This is much more relevant for this new formula era.

I know that but since we are on back foot already and engine development window is closed we need to get the best in aero.

[Hornet]

I'm sure Ferrari knows how important every area is, I don't think Ferrari decided to slack off in the aero department and focused on engine development only. The team spent a lot in trying to fix the wind tunnel, hiring new CFD expert (or so the rumors said anyway). The team is pushing on every front.

As for the PU, teams will be allowed to make performance improvements for next season. We need to keep pushing there as well. And of course, in all other area as well, and I believe Ferrari is pushing in all other areas.

[RedRebel40]

I think they are constantly trying like all the other big teams.

[Majki2111]

I think they are constantly trying like all the other big teams.

And yet still not being the best in any area exept reliability, which is not that big advantage considering past 5 years.

[Gerhard Berger]

Unfortunately we gave away one of the best designers in F1 to Mercedes back in 2011.

[Gerhard Berger]

And yet still not being the best in any area exept reliability, which is not that big advantage considering past 5 years.

Resta said they focused on reliability. Perhaps they shold have been focusing on performance first, and then making the car reliable (as Red Bull have done).

Easier to make a fast car reliable, than to make a reliable car fast.

[Greig]

Unfortunately we gave away one of the best designers in F1 to Mercedes back in 2011.

[RedPassion]

[RedPassion]

OK, beacuse developing of PU is over and is clearness that Ferrari lacks aero efficiency compared to RBR, should they...?
I mean there must be better aerodynamicists and designers better than Tombazis and Newey in the world. I think they should really start searching them in smaller series of racing than F1 or even outside of racing. I follow Ferrari since Alonso is there and they did nothing compared to RBR nor McLaren. They weren't inovative at all. It all looks like there are working many many people without enough knowlege to be the best for Ferrari, it is big problem since they have a lot of money and people. So they need to maybe start hireing people, not firing them.

OR SHOULD WE STAY CALM AND GIVE THEM MORE TIME?

Our Chassis is at the Moment the second best,although we have a far worse PU at the Moment we are in front of all Mercedes powered engine but Mercedes,and there and there about with Red Bull,i think this is a good answer.

[Majki2111]

Our Chassis is at the Moment the second best,although we have a far worse PU at the Moment we are in front of all Mercedes powered engine but Mercedes,and there and there about with Red Bull,i think this is a good answer.

Well, second best isn't enough looking back in past 4 or 5 years.

[AfterLife]

Our Chassis is at the Moment the second best,although we have a far worse PU at the Moment we are in front of all Mercedes powered engine but Mercedes,and there and there about with Red Bull,i think this is a good answer.

Our chassis is the third best and Formula1 is the race of development. Hopefully the next races we will see more competitive Ferrari. Our main rival is RedBull in terms of development race.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Ferrari should listen to the people on this forum because they obviously know more than the team.

[wisepie]

If the engines have been frozen, and we don't seem to be competitive, the only option would appear to be to try to make the electronic ancillaries work better together thus enabling the ICE to work to its optimum capacity. If that doesn't work, then I have to say we're doomed again for this season. We're on the back foot already, despite the brave efforts of our drivers and engineers, but I still think it's a bit hasty to start demanding new aerodynamicists and designers unless their name is Newey. RB seem to be able to take it to Merc without the best engine, for sure, but all the power sources have to work together in harmony to achieve the best solution.

[Gerhard Berger]

I don't really understand what is so funny. Costa is one of the best designers in F1.

But of course who i am to talk. Fry has done a much better job since he took charge.

[Greig]

I don't really understand what is so funny. Costa is one of the best designers in F1.

Based on?

Fry is not our lead designer? But if you want to say Fry is our designer then you would have to credit the Merc to Bob Bell who Costa works under?

[RedPassion]

Based on?

Fry is not our lead designer? But if you want to say Fry is our designer then you would have to credit the Merc F2005(a dog)Bob Bell who Costa works under?

Nikolas Tombazis is our Chief Designer since 2007,the last two cars Aldo designed were the F2005(a dog) and the 248f1,so he is not the best designer we had.He was since 2007 until May 2011 TD,and Fry came i 2010 and he is rebuilding the whole damn factory there because it became imbarassing obsolete under Costa direction. So yes Pat has beeen doing a much better Job then Costa and now that Allison came along is even better.If Mercedes is happy with him and want to Keep him is another story

[Senna4Ever]

Ferrari should listen to the people on this forum because they obviously know more than the team.

to which ones?
to those who say glass half full and support the team or to those who say glass half empty and also still support the team?

[Greig]

"Everybody can support a team when they're doing well - that's easy. But it's like life, the time you find out who your friends and supporters are is when things are going wrong.

"That is a real test of good supporters."

[PadGeT]

Well first of all lets look at the names shall we ( as far as my knowledge goes) - Nicolas Tombazis( CD), Simone Resta (DCD), Lawrence Hodge (Pat Fry's RH man), Loic Bigois (Windtunnel Op), Ben Aganthangelou (remembered for the famous spat wid Newey around 2006 and eventually got kicked out),Alex Cinelli & Mariane Hinson (ex- Caterham CFD expert also got kicked out)
New additions this year - James Allison, Dirk de Beer (Chief aero guy) & some mysterious Lotus CFD guy.
I would say they should add considerable strength. But i can't say if its enough to outhink the Newey-Monaghan-Rob Marshall-Prodromou think-tank unfortunately.
As for recent future and further ahead Ferrari should look at hiring young potent designers & engineers from FormulaStudent programmes rather than going for marque names, as they have probably the right amount of top heads atm (my personal opinion).

[Rob]

@Greig

[Gerhard Berger]

Based on?

Fry is not our lead designer? But if you want to say Fry is our designer then you would have to credit the Merc to Bob Bell who Costa works under?

Based on him leading the design team for Mercedes, which is the best car so far this season.

Fry is the one who replaced Costa as technical director, hence i brought him up.

[PadGeT]

Based on him leading the design team for Mercedes, which is the best car so far this season.

Fry is the one who replaced Costa as technical director, hence i brought him up.

And Fry has done a better job than Costa could do (in terms of mechanical performance). Just look at 2011.

[RedPassion]

true words man,Forza Ferrari

[Gerhard Berger]

And Fry has done a better job than Costa could do (in terms of mechanical performance). Just look at 2011.

Well not really, we're still stuck with the 3rd best car.

Not sure how you think we've done a better performance mechanically under Fry. The car really lacks traction for the third year running now. The F10 on the other hand was one of the best cars in terms of traction and braking.

[Majki2111]

Well first of all lets look at the names shall we ( as far as my knowledge goes) - Nicolas Tombazis( CD), Simone Resta (DCD), Lawrence Hodge (Pat Fry's RH man), Loic Bigois (Windtunnel Op), Ben Aganthangelou (remembered for the famous spat wid Newey around 2006 and eventually got kicked out),Alex Cinelli & Mariane Hinson (ex- Caterham CFD expert also got kicked out)
New additions this year - James Allison, Dirk de Beer (Chief aero guy) & some mysterious Lotus CFD guy.
I would say they should add considerable strength. But i can't say if its enough to outhink the Newey-Monaghan-Rob Marshall-Prodromou think-tank unfortunately.
As for recent future and further ahead Ferrari should look at hiring young potent designers & engineers from FormulaStudent programmes rather than going for marque names, as they have probably the right amount of top heads atm (my personal opinion).

That is what I wanted to say...

[RedPassion]

And Fry has done a better job than Costa could do (in terms of mechanical performance). Just look at 2011.

2011 was Costas project.A donkey could lead the designer team of Mercedes or Red Bull,did you never heard of Rob Marshall?he is the chief designer of Red Bull and hardly a genious.They already had a very good wind tunnel,a very functioning organisation and a very good cfd department before he came along,he has nothing to do with the development of the team until 2012.When he was TD at Ferrari with all that budget he wasnt bothered to work on developing all these tools other teams already had,and he was TD for 6 years.

[PadGeT]

Well not really, we're still stuck with the 3rd best car.

Not sure how you think we've done a better performance mechanically under Fry. The car really lacks traction for the third year running now. The F10 on the other hand was one of the best cars in terms of traction and braking.

Wow u shud follow F1 more closely.
The 2011 car was as dog in suspension stiffness & performance, lacked the cutting edge development tools needed in factory. Pat Fry was hired primarily to get our technical dept up to pace with the front running teams(Mclaren & RB den) andhe was one of the engineers we were following since 2007 IIRC
And u fail to take into account 2010 was still quite new in aero developments from 2009 regs change. The differential performance was closer btw RB and Ferrari in 2010, but after a year u could see the leap RB took aero wise, while we got nowhere due to Costa.