Ecclestone summit held with Luca di Montezemolo as viewers switch off Malaysian GP

[steelstallions]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...rand-Prix.html

While Formula One’s troupe arrived in Bahrain to rain, of all things, Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo flew to London for a secret summit with Bernie Ecclestone to discuss problems with this season’s controversial regulations and the future ownership of the whole billion-dollar sport.
Di Montezemolo is concerned that viewing figures in Europe fell for last weekend’s Malaysian Grand Prix, reflecting Ferrari’s online poll that found 78 per cent of the 35,000-plus respondents did not like the new formula.
The Ferrari president told Ecclestone that the new regulations, including the 100kg per hour fuel flow regulation that saw Red Bull’s Daniel Ricciardo disqualified in Australia, are too complex and argued against a cost cap.The two men decided to hold a meeting with FIA president Jean Todt in the Bahrain paddock on Saturday in an attempt to find a quick resolution.
Also under discussion in London was whether Ecclestone, with the involvement of teams such as Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes, might buy back a majority holding in the sport.

Have they finally woke up to fact we want high octane sport not a conservation of fuel tires engine bore-fest?

[shamim179]

Bit late to change the regulations now. Also, be careful what you wish for. It is clear that Red Bull want the flow rate rule scrapped so that they can further optimize their package.

[abbottcostello]

Too late? I don't think so, not when the health of the sport ($$$MONEY$$$) is at stake. As far as the engines go, they would all be at much higher HP ratings if they were not fuel limited. I don't know for a fact myself, but articles I've read stated they would easily exceed 1000 HP if they could stuff in all the fuel they wanted.
Bernie was talking about microphone & loudspeaker placement to enrich the experience! Fine if he thinks it'll help, but I think 120 kg of fuel & a commensurate increase in the flow rate would liven the races up quite a bit.

"Darn" the torpedoes, full speed ahead

[Cheeseman]

There was an interesting article in Monday's Evening Standard in London where the writer pointed out that F1's "greener image" won't stop global warming...

[abbottcostello]

OK, this is my shocked face...

It is actually rather shocking, when you take every aspect from development to logistics into account, the carbon footprint the sport does have. Suppose that is why the author referred to the "greener image" rather than a real effort to lessen the actual excesses inherent in carting a bunch of cars, parts & people around the world.

[alfarom147]

What i hate most about the new F1 is the engine sound...arrghhh

[izybluffen]

Drop the fuel flow limit = more HP + more sound
Run twin turbo with external wastegates = even more HP + even more sound
Bigger fuel tank.

Problem solved.

Personally I don't mind the sound but definitely not loud enough and nowhere near as good as the 80's fire breathing turbo monsters.

[Hornet]

Too late? I don't think so, not when the health of the sport ($$$MONEY$$$) is at stake. As far as the engines go, they would all be at much higher HP ratings if they were not fuel limited. I don't know for a fact myself, but articles I've read stated they would easily exceed 1000 HP if they could stuff in all the fuel they wanted.
Bernie was talking about microphone & loudspeaker placement to enrich the experience! Fine if he thinks it'll help, but I think 120 kg of fuel & a commensurate increase in the flow rate would liven the races up quite a bit.

"Darn" the torpedoes, full speed ahead

Can't speak for other fans, but that's what I want to see in F1. A car with brute force engine power that will stress the driver's skill to it's limit in controlling such powerful machine.

And yeah I agree they should consider increasing the fuel limit. Maybe that will encourage teams to run at higher RPM, and we can have louder engines.

[stefa]

I know this will never happen, but my view on solving this new F1 is to get rid of all this stupid new things from 2014 and get back to 2008. Year of last real Formula 1 season.
Wishfull thinking.... I know....

[izybluffen]

I know this will never happen, but my view on solving this new F1 is to get rid of all this stupid new things from 2014 and get back to 2008. Year of last real Formula 1 season.
Wishfull thinking.... I know....

Try 1986 with modern chassis's. The year of the most powerful engines in F1 history.

[Senna4Ever]

According to some rumours Bernie welcomed Luca with: Years you were whining about engine power is completely underrated in modern F1 ... what is it now?

[abbottcostello]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...rand-Prix.html



Have they finally woke up to fact we want high octane sport not a conservation of fuel tires engine bore-fest?

Let's not forget, these new rules were NOT put there for the fans. Supposedly they were to keep the existing teams from going broke or quitting before they went broke AND to make it possible to recruit new racing teams. Well Bernie put out a "want ad" for new teams & got what, 1 answer... "maybe" they can come in 2016 or 2017, a US team so finally he can put a 2nd USGP on the calendar like he's been trying for so long!
What scares me is the bit about Bernie buying back a majority share of F1. I guess they figure he's still got it even at 80 something & still defending an upcoming bribery charge in Germany this month.
To be fair, Bernie was the one that said all along he thought the change to the new PU's was wrong & they should stay with the V8's! He's seems a money grubbing little imp to me, but he IS all about what the fans will like & come out to see in droves. I can't deny that they should've listened to him, now it looks like it is time to backtrack on the new regs. to pull their butts out of the fire.
After the Malaysian race promoter stood next to Bernie in pit lane before the race & talked about lowered race fees in a live televised interview, that was probably the last straw for him.

[abbottcostello]

According to some rumours Bernie welcomed Luca with: Years you were whining about engine power is completely underrated in modern F1 ... what is it now?

Actually, I think it is even more about the aero with the fuel limits. Allison said as much when he stated "...that 1% of engine power is not so different in its effect on the stopwatch as 1% of aero efficiency”, but yeah, I can picture him saying that to Luca, rubbing some salt in the wound

Full article: Allison: “Development on all fronts”

[shamim179]

Changing the regulations during this season will upset the pecking order. It may or may not affect our car that much. But look what happened last year - they changed the tyres and it badly affected our car.

This new formula was also very much about attracting new engine manufacturers to the sport and to also make it even more relevant to road cars.

[Kiwi Nick]

From a performance standpoint, I don't think they can change much of anything, except perhaps the flow rate. The real problem is that they made such radical, massive, unprecedented changes that only one PU manufacturer got it right. And I don't think that there is much difference between the three engines, but it is only one of six components that make up the PU and the engine may be the least important. The engine, turbo, MGU-K, MGU-H6, batteries and the control unit all need to work together. That is really the root of the problem Ferrari and Renault have not figured out how to make the whole package work in driver-friendly harmony.

So what would you change? Get rid of the MGUs and you are left with a little Turbo V6 that couldn't finish a race on 100kg of fuel, even though it has less power than most other open wheeled race cars. 30 years ago, BMW could squeeze nearly 1000hp out of a 1.5 litre four cylinder engine, but it could never complete a GP on 100kg of fuel. To get that sort of performance out of the current engine without extra power from the ERS, would require about double the current fuel capacity. That would require refueling, which the FIA believe is too dangerous for the teams at the pinnacle of motor racing to handle, or new chassis with bigger fuel cells.

I think, realistically, I would do 4 things, 1) allow more in-season testing and development, 2) double the fuel flow rate from 100 to 200 kph, 3) increase the rev limit to 18,000rpm, and 4) allow refueling. Don't change any of the ERS, just allow the teams more on track testing to work out the problems. Working out the problems may require lifting some of the limits on homologation and development.

The FIA just tried to do too much all at once. If they had taken a more phased approach, we might have more even racing amongst the PU suppliers.

[PadGeT]

I think, realistically, I would do 4 things, 1) allow more in-season testing and development, 2) double the fuel flow rate from 100 to 200 kph, 3) increase the rev limit to 18,000rpm, and 4) allow refueling. Don't change any of the ERS, just allow the teams more on track testing to work out the problems. Working out the problems may require lifting some of the limits on homologation and development.

The FIA just tried to do too much all at once. If they had taken a more phased approach, we might have more even racing amongst the PU suppliers.

@200 kph on a 1.6 l turbocharged V6!!! COnsidering we were using around 140-150 kph last year wid the 2.4 l V8s which were significantly less efficient in comparison to these PUs, i would say that is stretching things a bit.
What makes u think ERS won't/doesn't need to be changed. The rate of charging and discharging is bound to change. You increase the intake of air in turbocharger so as to burn excess fuel efficiently, so when the turbo spools, the amount of electric energy converted needs to harvested by naturally a bigger battery.

[ferrari4life]

i haven't watched a single moment of F1 this year. It doesnt excite me and the only reason I am here is Ferrari.

F1 is a boring non-race car driving farse. Nascar with its single direction turns would probably beat it in a popularity contest anymore.

[Hornet]

They need to get some competition going. The state it is right now, I think most of us can predict which team will win this weekend's race, there's just no competition at the front.

It was a mistake to homologate the engine so early, especially when it's such a new technology. Some are bound to get certain things wrong, they need opportunity to fix things. By homologating it before the season started, we're basically freezing the engine standing order for the entire year.

[dpiatto]

At least the ball is rolling now with Luca demanding a meeting. Great to hear he is not happy.
I doubt if they will be able to change much for this season so as far as I’m concerned Mercedes have this one in the bag.
One thing is certain that the days of the screaming V’s are gone and we will be forced to get used to the new formula.
Be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

[SilverSpeed]

I find that these boring race take to long to finish.

You drive seconds per lap slower but you need to do the same km's as the previous years...

[abbottcostello]

i haven't watched a single moment of F1 this year. It doesnt excite me and the only reason I am here is Ferrari.

F1 is a boring non-race car driving farse. Nascar with its single direction turns would probably beat it in a popularity contest anymore.

Maybe it would if you only counted the Southeast USA in the contest. Actually, what you say is true, but it has been true for many, many years, if not always.
We used to have a F1 race in Watkins Glen, NY about 120mi/200km from my house. As historic & famous as it was, I never heard of it until I started reading Road & Track magazine. Of course I was only about 17 or 18 at the time, so I had not heard of a lot of things. I started going to the race in 1970, admission was probably around $10-$12, but the first yr. we sneaked in. To the point though, when I'd ask around almost no one ever heard of the event, much less the sport of Grand Prix racing, I was dumbfounded. Everyone heard of AJ Foyt & Andy Granatelli. Even Andretti, but from Indy 500, not GP. It did gain some popularity, just not as much as the home grown stuff.
Well, so much for old times rambling, sorry all.

Wow, Kiwi Nick, 200kg/hr, that's like 30-40 more than V8's were using last yr.! According to F1 website I recall 170 kg/hr as a typical max. with total usage for a race about 160 kg. I agree though that they were WAAAY too ambitious with the reductions, especially considering all cars are, at a minimum, 49 kg heavier.
I'll stick with 120 kg/hr flow & 120 kg total/race. That would probably get them revving closer to the current 15,000 RPM limit & let them not worry as much about fuel. Maybe up the PU penalties to kick in after using 6 of each?
From article I've read, RB's Horner would love to see the flow sensors just go away completely, surprise surprise. I really don't think that will happen, nor would it be good. All these rules are so intertwined, to just eliminate one would not be a smart move right now.

[theforce]

I'm going to sound sour here but I think we are truly done for this year...AGAIN. All this talk by our President will not change the fact that we have once again fallen behind the likes of RBR and Mercedez. In fact it makes us come across as whingers. At best I think this year will be a repeat of 2012.

I think its also time for Fernando to be thinking of another way to win a 3rd championship as his best is slipping away every race. To always be following leader cars and have a measly podium finish on a best day is very frustrating 5 years in a row now. The problem is not the rules/regulation/tyres etc, its Ferrari's inability to build fast cars, PERIOD.

[Kiwi Nick]

Wow, Kiwi Nick, 200kg/hr, that's like 30-40 more than V8's were using last yr.! According to F1 website I recall 170 kg/hr as a typical max. with total usage for a race about 160 kg. I agree though that they were WAAAY too ambitious with the reductions, especially considering all cars are, at a minimum, 49 kg heavier.
I'll stick with 120 kg/hr flow & 120 kg total/race. That would probably get them revving closer to the current 15,000 RPM limit & let them not worry as much about fuel. Maybe up the PU penalties to kick in after using 6 of each?

In 1986 the Brabham BT 55, Arrows and Benetton used the BMW 1.5 liter turbo engine (m13 I think). The engine cranked out about 850-1000hp (up to 1,300hp in quali). These cars carried 195 liters of fuel, the FIA had reduced the fuel capacity from 220 liters in 1985. It takes a lot of fuel to make that much HP.

[steelstallions]

Bahrain Grand Prix sinks to seven year low------- Bahrain Grand Prix dropped to its lowest rating since 2007.

http://f1broadcasting.wordpress.com/...omment-page-1/

Not looking good for the electric era!

[steelstallions]

http://www.pitpass.com/48862/Ecclest...ee-Sky-F1-plan

It is nearly two years since pay-television operator BSkyB announced that it had snatched the exclusive rights to broadcast Formula One from the BBC. Although the initial uproar is a distant memory, it hasn't been forgotten. Sky broadcasts all F1 races live whilst the BBC shows just nine this year with delayed highlights of the ten others. The impact of this has not been hard to notice.
In February Pitpass' business editor Christian Sylt revealed that F1's viewing figures in the UK fell by 3.8m to 28.6m in 2012, the first year of Sky's deal. Lotus' team principal Eric Boullier told Sylt that the teams are monitoring the move to pay-TV and admitted that if it becomes global, they may need to review their sponsorship rates. Historically the teams' offering to sponsors has been based on them being seen by as many viewers as possible but Sky presents a hurdle to this as the minimum cost of the package which shows F1 is £318. If F1's boss Bernie Ecclestone gets his way it won't cost viewers a penny.
Writing in the Express newspaper Sylt reveals that Ecclestone advised Sky to distribute free receiver boxes which are restricted to picking up F1 in order to drive conversion rates to its full service and increase viewing figures.
Talking to Sylt Ecclestone said that following the announcement that Sky would broadcast F1 he received letters from fans saying "we aren't going to watch Formula One any more" and in response he "said to Sky why don't you give people free Sky boxes that will only be able to receive Formula One. I said you can guarantee that when you put a Sky box in the house, although it is only for Formula One, people are going to say 'why can't I watch the rest' and they will sign up.
"Kids will say 'my friends at school watch this so why can't we?' Sky are very good with that kind of idea. It would use Formula One to drive their subscriptions."
It is a fascinating scheme which could only have been dreamt up by a master wheeler and dealer like Ecclestone. Although it is nothing more than an idea it would in fact be a natural progression of Sky's strategy to tempt viewers with free or lower-cost access.
In January it launched Sky Thursdays which involves some of its premium entertainment content being broadcast once a week on its free-to-air Freeview channel Pick TV. Last month Sky added Sky Sports to its internet TV service NOW TV which gives access to its F1 broadcasts for £9.99 per day. It could pave the way for using free F1 coverage as a trojan horse to get Sky into viewers' homes.
"The big problem I think is that it is not just a case of getting the Sky box, you have got to get a dish," says Ecclestone. He adds that in order to make F1 free-to-air Sky "are probably waiting for some sort of wireless system to come in where you don't need a dish." If the TV viewing figures continue to decline that may just make its début sooner rather than later.

I have got SKY already and am fast forwarding races, i doubt this plan will do F1 much good, its the formula itself that needs working on!

[vcs316]

http://www.pitpass.com/48862/Ecclest...ee-Sky-F1-plan

I have got SKY already and am fast forwarding races, i doubt this plan will do F1 much good, its the formula itself that needs working on!

I have Tata Sky (joint venture between TATA & Sky) installed at my place. I pay INR 6500 for the Annual Mega Pack (approx 70 GBP) per year for all channels (including HD). This gives me access to Star Sports who broadcast the races without any delays. I am quite surprised how expensive it is for you guys in the UK.

[aroutis]

i haven't watched a single moment of F1 this year. It doesnt excite me and the only reason I am here is Ferrari.

F1 is a boring non-race car driving farse. Nascar with its single direction turns would probably beat it in a popularity contest anymore.

There you go... same here and I am an avid F1 fan since I was 8 years old!
This is NOT F1, and I don't care what anyone else says.

This thing is a farce, completely out of the spirit of the sport and whoever agreed to these rules have lost the plot. Utterly and completely.

And before people accuse me that I say this because Ferrari is not winning, guess again, I was watching the sport when we were not winning championships so nope, that 's not it.

They need to change things back, revert to what F1 is about, which is racing, flat out racing, not saving up, not endurance, not 'efficiency' or "going green". They could make championships for it (oh wait!, there's a new series, Formula E for it, have fun with it!), but this IS F1, and that should not be about all these things...

[abbottcostello]

Bernie is looking for any gimmicks to boost viewers, he knows there is major problems for F1 survival with viewership declining like it is or else he never would have met w/Luca.
Things are looking somewhat bleak & now Niki L is yelling at them for looking to head off a major crisis in the sport! People want to see standings with everybody close & cars that can compete more than these. They overreached with these new rules, took it up a few notches too many IMHO. A little fuel conserving would be OK & would've meshed with the tyre strategy, they just overdid it.

[Hornet]

Bernie is looking for any gimmicks to boost viewers, he knows there is major problems for F1 survival with viewership declining like it is or else he never would have met w/Luca.
Things are looking somewhat bleak & now Niki L is yelling at them for looking to head off a major crisis in the sport! People want to see standings with everybody close & cars that can compete more than these. They overreached with these new rules, took it up a few notches too many IMHO. A little fuel conserving would be OK & would've meshed with the tyre strategy, they just overdid it.

Yeah I agree. When you introduce new technical rules to the sport, there tend to be some unpredictable outcome and they will have to respond to these unwanted consequences. This is why it's always bad to introduce many changes all at once.

They've certainly gone overboard in throwing that many changes to the sport, and now they have their hands full with many unforeseen troubles.

[Nova]

Changing the regulations during this season will upset the pecking order. It may or may not affect our car that much. But look what happened last year - they changed the tyres and it badly affected our car.

This new formula was also very much about attracting new engine manufacturers to the sport and to also make it even more relevant to road cars.

My comment is about your last sentence. F1 is supposed to be the absolut pinnacle of motorsport. THE highest, the echelon, the most powerful cars in the world driven at the limit by the best race car drivers in the world. Its not supposed to be about pertaining to road cars. Its about fantasy, excitement, daring and bravery, brute force and all out futuristic design and technology....and speed! We drive road cars everyday..who wants to see road cars in F1? People may drive electric cars (no one I know) but no one wants to see them race. People want to escape from reality for entertainment. I want to sit in the stand and marvel at the sheer brute force, the screaming unworldly engines, and the daring young men talented enough to drive them at their limit. There are already series that pertain to road cars. I see no purpose in the ever strangling limitations put on what is supposed to be the highest form of motorsport in the world.

Its like going to Disneyland..Living in an imaginary universe for a few hours, escaping from the humdrums, the sameness, (the electric cars) and whatever u consider to be normal. When I go to an F1 race or watch it, I want to have nothing to do w/normal. I want to be excited, thrilled and in that imaginary universe for a few hours.

Note: My imaginary universe has nothing to do with electric cars or teeny people flying around in green tights...