Briatore says Ferrari team no longer excellent

**paneristi** · 12th April 2014, 19:09

just had a very tiring day. This is certainly very entertaining comment

Originally Posted by Parabolica

This is Formula One, not a Sunday School.

There is no trophy for being nice and decent.

**ntukza** · 12th April 2014, 19:41

Originally Posted by Mile123

You conspiracy theorists prone to family associations :)

What underground force made the Mercs so dominant this season?

Welcome to reality.

Reply of the week!

+10

**Red_Diamond** · 12th April 2014, 19:52

LOL. If Kimi and Alonso think their talents are wasted at Ferrari, they know where the door is, heck
Kimi has already passed through it once so he should know the way.

If Ferrari make so many people depressed, surely it would be better for your health to support
another team?

Remind me again, keyboard warriors, the last time you stamped your feet with hysterics
to get Ferrari to hang a scapegoat (Costa, 2011) did it make a difference?

Briatore is a convicted cheat, Ferrari would not sink that low. Otherwise it would be the end of Ferrari.

**Bertie** · 12th April 2014, 19:58

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

This is exactly why we have no title after the influence of the old team vanished. We are too nice, not exploiting every oportunity, not pushing the rules.

But still, what the others were doing was not ok. FIA changed the rule to stop it, but they blew it and had to change it again mid season to achieve what they wanted in the first place.

There were changes mid season before and after and be sure there will be again. Winning is important, not the way you do it.

Surely not. You don't agree with how Lance Armstrong went about the task of winning do you?

**Kyss4k** · 12th April 2014, 20:03

Originally Posted by Bertie

Surely not. You don't agree with how Lance Armstrong went about the task of winning do you?

We are talking about a "legal" ways. But mentioning cycling... all of them are doping.

**NasI** · 12th April 2014, 20:12

Originally Posted by Mile123

You conspiracy theorists prone to family associations :)

What underground force made the Mercs so dominant this season?

Welcome to reality.

I wander if you fallow this sport! I just give you the reality of the situation but you do not see it. Mercedes was the next force after RB to come to play it started last year with its test.

**NasI** · 12th April 2014, 20:17

Originally Posted by paneristi

not being an SD hater; it's the view of reality
deep down, this is still business; their (the employees') loyalty is based on that (quoting Michael Corleone). Massa was very loyal albeit a little inconsistent after his tragedy. Why let him go? Children-parent relationship? Kimi was a step-son in 2008?
I thought last year Mercedes snatched the second WCC point instead of Ferrari?
We all love politics; even the way we teach sex education to our children can be political

Take it easy friend and enjoy the show. Take a drink and watch the game. Let SD alone if we all understand that deep inside all is random purposely arrangement.

**paneristi** · 12th April 2014, 20:55

what exactly are you trying to say with this 'random purposely arrangement' thing? enlighten me

Originally Posted by NasI

Take it easy friend and enjoy the show. Take a drink and watch the game. Let SD alone if we all understand that deep inside all is random purposely arrangement.

**Mile123** · 12th April 2014, 21:00

Originally Posted by paneristi

what exactly are you trying to say with this 'random purposely arrangement' thing? enlighten me

I'm puzzled too..? :)

**paneristi** · 12th April 2014, 21:07

I believe we are all entitled to support the team we think worth supporting, and that is the Scuderia Ferrari. Some supporters accept things as they are, some are not satisfied and think that things can be improved by offering suggestion we think worth discussing. We are all grown up and most of us have been in management or senior management team or chief level in large corporation long enough to offer that kind of suggestion which may be a bit hard for you to understand why leadership matters.

Originally Posted by Red_Diamond

LOL. If Kimi and Alonso think their talents are wasted at Ferrari, they know where the door is, heck
Kimi has already passed through it once so he should know the way.

If Ferrari make so many people depressed, surely it would be better for your health to support
another team?

Remind me again, keyboard warriors, the last time you stamped your feet with hysterics
to get Ferrari to hang a scapegoat (Costa, 2011) did it make a difference?

Briatore is a convicted cheat, Ferrari would not sink that low. Otherwise it would be the end of Ferrari.

**NasI** · 12th April 2014, 21:10

Originally Posted by paneristi

what exactly are you trying to say with this 'random purposely arrangement' thing? enlighten me

Better live it!

**NasI** · 12th April 2014, 21:11

Originally Posted by Mile123

I'm puzzled too..? :)

Better live it!

**Red_Diamond** · 12th April 2014, 21:16

Originally Posted by paneristi

I believe we are all entitled to support the team we think worth supporting, and that is the Scuderia Ferrari. Some supporters accept things as they are, some are not satisfied and think that things can be improved by offering suggestion we think worth discussing. We are all grown up and most of us have been in management or senior management team or chief level in large corporation long enough to offer that kind of suggestion which may be a bit hard for you to understand why leadership matters.

I would dearly love to know what kind of 'senior management' position you have ever held? Or in fact what makes you think
you're qualified to know who is the right person to lead Scuderia Ferrari? Apart from the usual suspects (prominent
media figures) do you have any inkling to the names of the other cogs in the Scuderia Ferrari machine? Faulty
or otherwise?

**paneristi** · 12th April 2014, 21:26

Are you saying that I actually suggest Briatore as the right candidate? What makes you think of the 'unsatisfied' tifosi to root for other teams?

Originally Posted by Red_Diamond

I would dearly love to know what kind of 'senior management' position you have ever held? Or in fact what makes you think
you're qualified to know who is the right person to lead Scuderia Ferrari? Apart from the usual suspects (prominent
media figures) do you have any inkling to the names of the other cogs in the Scuderia Ferrari machine? Faulty
or otherwise?

**Parabolica** · 12th April 2014, 21:30

OK, coming from the left-field....

Chip Ganassi.

**Winter** · 12th April 2014, 21:40

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

This is exactly why we have no title after the influence of the old team vanished. We are too nice, not exploiting every oportunity, not pushing the rules.

But still, what the others were doing was not ok. FIA changed the rule to stop it, but they blew it and had to change it again mid season to achieve what they wanted in the first place.

There were changes mid season before and after and be sure there will be again. Winning is important, not the way you do it.

Winning is important, not the way to do it? I definitely disagree on that. Bring on Briatore, if rules are made to be broken..

**Stormsearcher** · 12th April 2014, 21:42

There is another question in all this "replace SD" chants... which is, not who will replace SD or should SD be replaced.. question is, who will want to replace SD?

Its replacing a man at the helm of a team that has the richest history in F1, with a fan base that are waiting to pounce on you for the slightest mistake, with 2 disgruntled (perhaps) but the best drivers in the grid and media pressure which i dont think any of us here will every imagine. Its not an easy job. And to jump into it at a time when the team seems to have made a slow start against an opposition that is simply killing the competition....

well, the job profile says it all. Now who wants to take over?

**Winter** · 12th April 2014, 21:43

Originally Posted by Red_Diamond

LOL. If Kimi and Alonso think their talents are wasted at Ferrari, they know where the door is, heck
Kimi has already passed through it once so he should know the way.

If Ferrari make so many people depressed, surely it would be better for your health to support
another team?

Remind me again, keyboard warriors, the last time you stamped your feet with hysterics
to get Ferrari to hang a scapegoat (Costa, 2011) did it make a difference?

Briatore is a convicted cheat, Ferrari would not sink that low. Otherwise it would be the end of Ferrari.

I so hope you are right about Ferrari hiring Flav.

**Kyss4k** · 12th April 2014, 21:45

Originally Posted by Winter

Winning is important, not the way to do it? I definitely disagree on that. Bring on Briatore, if rules are made to be broken..

You have to be little bit dirty in F1. Why was RB dominating? All the time, they were at the very edge of the rules. Always some drama going on about their designs. How many times did you see that from us?

You have to push it and stand behind it. I would not be surprised if we did even put the ballistic shield around the turbo as other teams were complaining. For the good of the sport I guess...

**Alonso14** · 12th April 2014, 22:04

Originally Posted by Stormsearcher

There is another question in all this "replace SD" chants... which is, not who will replace SD or should SD be replaced.. question is, who will want to replace SD?

Its replacing a man at the helm of a team that has the richest history in F1, with a fan base that are waiting to pounce on you for the slightest mistake, with 2 disgruntled (perhaps) but the best drivers in the grid and media pressure which i dont think any of us here will every imagine. Its not an easy job. And to jump into it at a time when the team seems to have made a slow start against an opposition that is simply killing the competition....

well, the job profile says it all. Now who wants to take over?

I wouldn't worry about that. TP of Ferrari is a dream job and this is F1, most of the people who work there are professionals who enjoy and thrive under pressure. If Ferrari shows faith in you that you can be the man (ie. offer you the positions of TP) it's a done deal - you have huge budget, talented individuals within the team and the facilities. Who in his right mind would pass the opportunity to be TP of Merc/Red Bull and Ferrari if he has the chance?

**Parabolica** · 12th April 2014, 22:10

It is simple. The man who is concerned about making a mistake, the man who is concerned about the fans reaction, should not apply for the job.

I want someone who doesn't fear his actions.

**Winter** · 12th April 2014, 22:11

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

You have to be little bit dirty in F1. Why was RB dominating? All the time, they were at the very edge of the rules. Always some drama going on about their designs. How many times did you see that from us?

You have to push it and stand behind it. I would not be surprised if we did even put the ballistic shield around the turbo as other teams were complaining. For the good of the sport I guess...

I know rules have to be pushed if you want some success, but pushing and breaking are two very different things. I want Ferrari to win, but still I rather lose with Stephano than win with Briatore. Flav is proven cheater and it would be just a sign of pure desperation if Domenicali would be replaced by him.

**Kiwi Nick** · 12th April 2014, 23:21

One problem that Ferrari has is that for every potential TP there are 10 who wouldn't touch the Ferrari TP job with a 10 foot pole. Some see the TP job at Ferrari as THE dream job, while others see it as stepping into a cesspool.

**Kyss4k** · 12th April 2014, 23:25

Originally Posted by Winter

I know rules have to be pushed if you want some success, but pushing and breaking are two very different things. I want Ferrari to win, but still I rather lose with Stephano than win with Briatore. Flav is proven cheater and it would be just a sign of pure desperation if Domenicali would be replaced by him.

How did we get into breaking the rules? Steping up and saying NO to reverting back to EBD in 2011 (my original point) is not breaking the rules.

**Winter** · 12th April 2014, 23:59

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

How did we get into breaking the rules? Steping up and saying NO to reverting back to EBD in 2011 (my original point) is not breaking the rules.

In that EBD 2011 case you are right. I just hate to see that some people are ready to change Domenicali to Briatore. If Sephano has to go and only option is Flavio, it's better to go without captain say I.

**Alonso14** · 13th April 2014, 00:58

Originally Posted by Winter

In that EBD 2011 case you are right. I just hate to see that some people are ready to change Domenicali to Briatore. If Sephano has to go and only option is Flavio, it's better to go without captain say I.

I agree, Flavio is the last man I want to see as TP.

But we all know that in any sport success conquers the hearts of fans with ease so my (our) opinion might change few years down the road if Ferrari get their act together under Flavio's management.

**diesel08** · 13th April 2014, 07:09

Originally Posted by paneristi

I believe we are all entitled to support the team we think worth supporting, and that is the Scuderia Ferrari. Some supporters accept things as they are, some are not satisfied and think that things can be improved by offering suggestion we think worth discussing. We are all grown up and most of us have been in management or senior management team or chief level in large corporation long enough to offer that kind of suggestion which may be a bit hard for you to understand why leadership matters.

**aroutis** · 13th April 2014, 07:49

Originally Posted by Greig

Todt never had one hand tied behind his back, or a sport with rules that made the grid so close. It's a very different sport now which most don't seem to take into account.

All I asked was why having Williams as a rival is assumed as being bad.

Here's the thing. RBR has their hand tied behind its back too. Merc too.
Do you see them complaining? I guess not.
Work with what you have, it's how you succeed. Apparently SD has failed, it's really not an excuse. I really don't care for excuses, but I do care for results. And I do believe that JT would have succeeded even if the rules back then would be the same as now, because simply JT is just better than SD.
But I guess we cannot know this.

**Parabolica** · 13th April 2014, 09:18

Stefano did not have his hands tied in 2014.

Maybe in 2009, but not now.

Excuses were acceptable early on after the testing ban, but 6 seasons is enough to adapt.

When the excuses dry up, there is just failure.

As the sign on President Truman's desk said...The Buck Stops Here.