Ferrari fighting for second place in F1 standings, says Alonso

**stefa** · 14th May 2014, 05:55

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

but even then, Red Fools are way better and faster then us...so SADLY they will take the WIN if both Mercedes DNF and NOT one of the FERRARI'S

To correct myself. Than in one when both Mercedes AND Red Bull cars DNF, Ferrari can possibly win that one

**stefa** · 14th May 2014, 05:58

Originally Posted by Rob

Sad, but look at our rivals, Mclaren. Just as bad past couple years. Swings and round abouts, our turn will come again, even a win this year still possible.

Looking at others, and saying that they are even worst than we are, wont help us at all. Will it?
One should not look at those who are worst than him, but at ones who are better, and aim to do same and/or even better!

**scuderia_nano** · 14th May 2014, 06:07

I am happy Stephano Fails-a-lot-celli left.
From here we can't go any worst.
I like his spirit. Cz its actually a 3rd place battle.
2nd is Redbull.

But well. If we concentrate on next year's car maybe.

**Senna4Ever** · 14th May 2014, 07:22

Originally Posted by stefa

Looking at others, and saying that they are even worst than we are, wont help us at all. Will it?
One should not look at those who are worst than him, but at ones who are better, and aim to do same and/or even better!

True True ...
seeing McLaren not performing doesn't make me feel better or makes situation sweeter ... at least I don't care ... and as the motorsport experts and journalists were right about our situation after winter testing they completely failed about McLaren and their super suspension trick ...

As I said before: maybe make a joint venture with McLarens to break phalanx of Merc and RB ... 'cause theoretically a Minus and a Minus makes a '+'

... theoretically

**Rosso Corsa** · 14th May 2014, 08:21

Originally Posted by Nero Horse

But I have a feeling that if we can't make a significant step forward in the Canadian GP then we'll start concentrating on next season anyway.

I'm not sure about that. I think (hope) we could see updates through the whole season. Firstly, we need the performance gap to be as small as possible before the winter break. That way we're not looking for 2+ seconds during the winter with no time on track.

Also, we can't underestimate the impact of all the changes back at the factory. We've got changes in personnel, changes in the chain of people involved at every stage, and biggest of all, we're moving factory. This season is a key opportunity to test the real world performance of everyone and all of the processes and tools at the factory. Work the bugs out, find the performance and see it on track. I say Ferrari should throw everything they can at this year and use this car as the test bench.

**ferrari4life** · 14th May 2014, 16:51

i dont see the point in following a sport where the winners are already decided before the start. I understand that fighting for second place with another team is maybe thrilling to some but to me that is not worth the extra effort to make to sit in front of the TV to watch.
In past years my interest in F1 has been waning and I have stopped waking up early here in the US to see the race. But this year its even lower where I dont even bother to check results.

This is just extremely sad.

**Nero Horse** · 14th May 2014, 18:04

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

True True ...
seeing McLaren not performing doesn't make me feel better or makes situation sweeter ...

Seeing Mclaren being in a worse situation than us doesn't make me feel any better about my beloved Ferrari's predicament either, but it does help ease the pain at least somewhat, because I absolutely despise Macca and it always gives me great satisfaction when we beat them. So yea, you're right, it doesn't make our own situation any better, but for me at least it does provide some joy and comfort.

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

I'm not sure about that. I think (hope) we could see updates through the whole season. Firstly, we need the performance gap to be as small as possible before the winter break. That way we're not looking for 2+ seconds during the winter with no time on track.

Also, we can't underestimate the impact of all the changes back at the factory. We've got changes in personnel, changes in the chain of people involved at every stage, and biggest of all, we're moving factory. This season is a key opportunity to test the real world performance of everyone and all of the processes and tools at the factory. Work the bugs out, find the performance and see it on track. I say Ferrari should throw everything they can at this year and use this car as the test bench.

I hope we'll be bringing updates throughout the season as well, and I'm sure that we will bring at least some amount of updates to every race, no matter where we are in the championship standings, but I just think that if we fail to close the gap to Mercs in Canada then about 90% of our focus will surely be turned on the 2015 season. The Canadian GP will most likely be the "make or break" race for us. Even Luca said that after the Canadian GP he will make the decision whether to continue pushing on this season or start concentrating on 2015. So let's see what happens in the next couple of races.

**NickEice** · 14th May 2014, 18:21

Originally Posted by ferrari4life

i dont see the point in following a sport where the winners are already decided before the start. I understand that fighting for second place with another team is maybe thrilling to some but to me that is not worth the extra effort to make to sit in front of the TV to watch.
In past years my interest in F1 has been waning and I have stopped waking up early here in the US to see the race. But this year its even lower where I dont even bother to check results.

This is just extremely sad.

I am not sure what F1 you have been watching over the years because this is usually the case in this sport. The years where there are 3-4 teams that can challenge for a win any weekend are few and far between.

Were you complaining during the early 2000's when we were the ones guaranteed to win? What about the late 80's when it was McLaren dominance? The only reason any other team won a race in the 80s was due to random reliability problems. Thanks to technology we have gotten past a lot of these reliability problems.

**stefa** · 14th May 2014, 18:24

Originally Posted by Nero Horse

Seeing Mclaren being in a worse situation than us doesn't make me feel any better about my beloved Ferrari's predicament either, but it does help ease the pain at least somewhat, because I absolutely despise Macca and it always gives me great satisfaction when we beat them. So yea, you're right, it doesn't make our own situation any better, but for me at least it does provide some joy and comfort.

I hope we'll be bringing updates throughout the season as well, and I'm sure that we will bring at least some amount of updates to every race, no matter where we are in the championship standings, but I just think that if we fail to close the gap to Mercs in Canada then about 90% of our focus will surely be turned on the 2015 season. The Canadian GP will most likely be the "make or break" race for us. Even Luca said that after the Canadian GP he will make the decision whether to continue pushing on this season or start concentrating on 2015. So let's see what happens in the next couple of races.

Don't want to be a spoiler or negative, as this term is used the most on this forum. What do you people expect of those alleged B spec car and all those rumored updates?!?! To be in a position to fight for any of championships?

I am not raising my hopes that high at all. Personal goal for me is at least one win, some strong races and not to be lapped again, and that's it! This season is over! If they can test something that will be of benefit for 2015 car than it is OK, if not, unfortunately it is just a waste of time and resources.

**Hornet** · 14th May 2014, 18:35

Originally Posted by NickEice

I am not sure what F1 you have been watching over the years because this is usually the case in this sport. The years where there are 3-4 teams that can challenge for a win any weekend are few and far between.

Were you complaining during the early 2000's when we were the ones guaranteed to win? What about the late 80's when it was McLaren dominance? The only reason any other team won a race in the 80s was due to random reliability problems. Thanks to technology we have gotten past a lot of these reliability problems.

While there are many years where a team dominate, there are also years like 2008. 2012 was exciting for me too, we fought for the title till the last race.

The embarrassing thing is that since our dominance in 2004, the FIA introduced many changes to prevent such dominance in F1, and this year, Merc is more dominating that Ferrari was in 2004. Minus all the excitement of watching a F1 car. There is a failure somewhere among the people who thought up all these brilliant ideas of how the sport should be changed in confusing ways on almost an annual basis, and yet we've only gotten further from that objective they set out to achieve back in 2005.

**AfterLife** · 14th May 2014, 18:43

If we could close the gap to Mercedes during the 2014 season, our 2015 season well be competitive but if we couldn't close the gap to Mercedes in this season, our 2015 season won't be competitive. There will be no dramatic change in rules for the 2015 season, so our form at the end of 2014 season more or less will be our 2015 form.

**NickEice** · 14th May 2014, 18:53

Originally Posted by AfterLife

If we could close the gap to Mercedes during the 2014 season, our 2015 season well be competitive but if we couldn't close the gap to Mercedes in this season, our 2015 season won't be competitive. There will be no dramatic change in rules for the 2015 season, so our form at the end of 2014 season more or less will be our 2015 form.

Exactly!

This is not like last year, there is no focus on next year, we need to push development until the end of the season. Everything we learn this year will be transferred to next years car.

**stefa** · 14th May 2014, 19:07

Originally Posted by Hornet

While there are many years where a team dominate, there are also years like 2008. 2012 was exciting for me too, we fought for the title till the last race.

The embarrassing thing is that since our dominance in 2004, the FIA introduced many changes to prevent such dominance in F1, and this year, Merc is more dominating that Ferrari was in 2004. Minus all the excitement of watching a F1 car. There is a failure somewhere among the people who thought up all these brilliant ideas of how the sport should be changed in confusing ways on almost an annual basis, and yet we've only gotten further from that objective they set out to achieve back in 2005.

Amen to that!

**Nova** · 14th May 2014, 19:42

Originally Posted by Hornet

While there are many years where a team dominate, there are also years like 2008. 2012 was exciting for me too, we fought for the title till the last race.

The embarrassing thing is that since our dominance in 2004, the FIA introduced many changes to prevent such dominance in F1, and this year, Merc is more dominating that Ferrari was in 2004. Minus all the excitement of watching a F1 car. There is a failure somewhere among the people who thought up all these brilliant ideas of how the sport should be changed in confusing ways on almost an annual basis, and yet we've only gotten further from that objective they set out to achieve back in 2005.

I have to agree..F1 was a blast to watch then...the cars were simpler, rules were understandable, the engines sounded great..the fia took a terribly wrong turn somewhere..
I thought theyed have more sense after Todt came to power, but alas, things r worse and I dont look forward to races like I used to.

Yes, I was excited to watch every race, even when Ferrari didnt do well...which was often actually.

**Nero Horse** · 14th May 2014, 23:43

Originally Posted by stefa

Don't want to be a spoiler or negative, as this term is used the most on this forum. What do you people expect of those alleged B spec car and all those rumored updates?!?! To be in a position to fight for any of championships?

Honestly? I personally aren't expecting much, as I already said on the first page of this thread, that taking into account our poor form, I'd be satisfied if we could finish in 2nd place in the WCC and somehow manage to win at least one race during the season. Deep down I'm of course still hoping for a miracle to happen, but realistically I know that in our current form, even getting 2nd place in WCC is going to be a very difficult thing to achieve. So, no, I'm not expecting us to get back into the championship fight with Mercs, but I am expecting us to be able to close the gap even just a little bit, with the updates that are supposedly coming to Canada. And I also expect/hope us to be even more closer to the Mercs at the end of this season, in order to have a good basis where to start from next season.

I wish I could expect more, but seeing where we are right now, then realistically it's just not possible unfortunately. But I'm always hoping for the best of course.

**Nova** · 15th May 2014, 03:03

If there is a problem with the current chassis, then yes, they need a new car, whether u call it b spec or not. How long do u try to update a chassis that performs so badly?
Im not into this "lets start next years car now" talk..we just started this year, and its pretty obvious there is something amiss with the F14T. And, I understand all of the discussions on here about the front suspension not making that much difference, mabey it doesnt to a degree, but to the end design of the car I think it does. How long are they going to flog that one.
There has never been a successful F1 car that used that susp and its obvious that Ferrari doesnt have a secret on how to actually make it work.
Let me ask, If Newey, who many here want, does not utilize this design and his cars continually out handle and out perform our cars, why do we use it?

**stefa** · 15th May 2014, 08:47

Originally Posted by Nova

If there is a problem with the current chassis, then yes, they need a new car, whether u call it b spec or not. How long do u try to update a chassis that performs so badly?
Im not into this "lets start next years car now" talk..we just started this year, and its pretty obvious there is something amiss with the F14T. And, I understand all of the discussions on here about the front suspension not making that much difference, mabey it doesnt to a degree, but to the end design of the car I think it does. How long are they going to flog that one.
There has never been a successful F1 car that used that susp and its obvious that Ferrari doesnt have a secret on how to actually make it work.
Let me ask, If Newey, who many here want, does not utilize this design and his cars continually out handle and out perform our cars, why do we use it?

In past 5 years it was a couple of times a case of letting go current season and concentrate early on next year car development. Which is good because one will have more time to develop car for next year and prepare better. In case of Ferrari they didn't use that extra given time for good! No! They succeeded to build bad cars after bad cars. Problem is obviously in people. Ones who are working there are not up to the task needed in modern F1. Sorry, but they are giving best they can and working around the clock is not enough!
You can stand against the wall and push it all day with all your strength without any results, and yet you will be tired and hungry, because you were working all day long... See the parallel I am putting here?
There has to be complete overhaul of technical team of people in Ferrari, and for result... I am afraid we are going to wait couple of years more...

**RedRebel40** · 15th May 2014, 11:48

The rules for 2015 are almost the same as for 2014. So anything we gain in 2014 will be brought to 2015. So I don't believe in abondoning the 2014 car, they should just update it till the last race and then make a big gain in the winter for 2014/2015 so we can build a winning car in 2016 again. :)

**zike** · 15th May 2014, 12:13

Originally Posted by RedRebel40

The rules for 2015 are almost the same as for 2014. So anything we gain in 2014 will be brought to 2015. So I don't believe in abondoning the 2014 car, they should just update it till the last race and then make a big gain in the winter for 2014/2015 so we can build a winning car in 2016 again. :)

yes,use the 2014 season as a testing ground

**stefa** · 15th May 2014, 13:11

Will updating basically bad foundation (F14T), give any good results at all?
We are not witnessing any significant progress in past races...

**modza** · 15th May 2014, 13:31

i have a feeling that Mercedes have some sort of hidden magic happening in PU area, and the other is not yet discovered. Like Redbull did with ecu maps till FIA tied up the rules. I's not like car is going 15km faster through every corner apex (on F1 mobile app can have corner stats), but torque amount and delivery is abnormal. No other Mercedes powered car got this. They have a great car, but car is not making 1.5s difference to others, it's some clever people in PU engineering team, i guess.
So my thought is, Mercedes dominance can end quit quickly if this is a case and others find out what it is.

Bob Bell could be the werrrrry tasty catch for any team.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/me...eam-80011.html

**ferrari4life** · 15th May 2014, 22:14

Originally Posted by NickEice

I am not sure what F1 you have been watching over the years because this is usually the case in this sport. The years where there are 3-4 teams that can challenge for a win any weekend are few and far between.

Were you complaining during the early 2000's when we were the ones guaranteed to win? What about the late 80's when it was McLaren dominance? The only reason any other team won a race in the 80s was due to random reliability problems. Thanks to technology we have gotten past a lot of these reliability problems.

i did not follow f1 prior to the late 90's.
And I did not spend time watching f1 in the early 2000's when we were dominating. I would just read the news the next day.

**NickEice** · 16th May 2014, 03:10

Originally Posted by ferrari4life

i did not follow f1 prior to the late 90's.
And I did not spend time watching f1 in the early 2000's when we were dominating. I would just read the news the next day.

I see. I am different then, I still consider the most boring processional race to be the best spectacle on television. But I do enjoy doing mental math calculating lap deltas lol. Different strokes for different folks.

**Nova** · 16th May 2014, 03:39

Originally Posted by stefa

In past 5 years it was a couple of times a case of letting go current season and concentrate early on next year car development. Which is good because one will have more time to develop car for next year and prepare better. In case of Ferrari they didn't use that extra given time for good! No! They succeeded to build bad cars after bad cars. Problem is obviously in people. Ones who are working there are not up to the task needed in modern F1. Sorry, but they are giving best they can and working around the clock is not enough!
You can stand against the wall and push it all day with all your strength without any results, and yet you will be tired and hungry, because you were working all day long... See the parallel I am putting here?
There has to be complete overhaul of technical team of people in Ferrari, and for result... I am afraid we are going to wait couple of years more...

I dont believe the people thing..there r still people who work for Ferrari from winning seasons...We have a number of talented people, Allison being new. The ideas are simply not translating to improvements on the track. Why? If I could answer that, Id be driving a 458.

And didnt we start the 14T last year? So where is it that starting early makes a fast car, because if that were true, the F14T would be winning.

**abbottcostello** · 16th May 2014, 04:16

Originally Posted by NickEice

I see. I am different then, I still consider the most boring processional race to be the best spectacle on television. But I do enjoy doing mental math calculating lap deltas lol. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm with you Nick, I'll even watch the replay of the boring race.

Heck there's only 20 or so for the whole darn year, just because it seems a little boring don't mean something unexpected can't happen, when it does, it is instant excitement.

**stefa** · 16th May 2014, 09:31

Originally Posted by Nova

I dont believe the people thing..there r still people who work for Ferrari from winning seasons...We have a number of talented people, Allison being new. The ideas are simply not translating to improvements on the track. Why? If I could answer that, Id be driving a 458.

And didnt we start the 14T last year? So where is it that starting early makes a fast car, because if that were true, the F14T would be winning.

As I remember yes. And YET again there are no visible results! Which lead to either the people working there are left without any good ideas, or the tools that they are using are obsolete in the world of modern Formula 1.
Ask your self, when was it last time for Ferrari to introduce something ground braking, or non conventional to the car, that worked and other tried to copy it?

**JPZ** · 16th May 2014, 11:18

Originally Posted by stefa

As I remember yes. And YET again there are no visible results! Which lead to either the people working there are left without any good ideas, or the tools that they are using are obsolete in the world of modern Formula 1.
Ask your self, when was it last time for Ferrari to introduce something ground braking, or non conventional to the car, that worked and other tried to copy it?

That's a very good point.

**F1NAC** · 16th May 2014, 13:00

Aero rims back in 2010

**ferrari4life** · 16th May 2014, 14:07

Originally Posted by NickEice

I see. I am different then, I still consider the most boring processional race to be the best spectacle on television. But I do enjoy doing mental math calculating lap deltas lol. Different strokes for different folks.

it does take all kind of people to make this world go round.
I absolutely despise Monaco as a race.