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Thread: Austrian GP 2014 Race Thread

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluto View Post
    Ferrari were quite silly to replace Massa with the driver he beat. Just think about that logic for a second. They were also tricked, like many people into underrating how good those Lotus cars were. They were amazing cars which flattered Kimi. It's really that simple. Now Kimi looks like Massa, and Massa looks much better. All about the cars. When will people learn?
    Lets see.

    2007-2009
    Raikkonen : 1 WDC , 9 wins, 233 points
    Massa: 0 WDC, 9 wins , 213 points


    So no, statistically you're wrong as we can see that Raikkonen clearly beat Massa.
    No, the Lotus were on par with us in terms of performance, not amazing cars as you make them sounds.
    No Kimi doesnt looks like Massa, he doesn't getting beat by a rookie called Bottas , he is getting beat by Fernando Alonso, an 2 WDC which has proven his driving capabilities and talent in the past many many times.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Because simply put Alonso had clear air while Raikkonen was fighting with a pack of 4.
    We should've pitted Kimi sooner than others like we did with Fernando in Spain,especially since the gap between Kimi and Fernando was around 6-7s and the Undercut wouldnt affect Fernanado but it would help Kimi to stay ahead of the pack and make a gap for the second stint.

    The second pit stop didnt matter as Kimi already lost too much time. There is no doubt that the strategy on Kimi was bad.
    Oh here we go with the "bad strategy for Kimi" talk again lol.
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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Lets see.

    2007-2009
    Raikkonen : 1 WDC , 9 wins, 233 points
    Massa: 0 WDC, 9 wins , 213 points


    So no, statistically you're wrong as we can see that Raikkonen clearly beat Massa.
    No, the Lotus were on par with us in terms of performance, not amazing cars as you make them sounds.
    No Kimi doesnt looks like Massa, he doesn't getting beat by a rookie called Bottas , he is getting beat by Fernando Alonso, an 2 WDC which has proven his driving capabilities and talent in the past many many times.
    Before Hungary 2009, Kimi collected 195 points.

    And Massa is pretty much on par with Bottas atm.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katu View Post
    well he can't now communicate properly with his race engineer
    he does much better now in terms of communications as he said .

    Quote Originally Posted by FA fan View Post
    Well Hulkenberg was forced to start his race with a used super soft tyre and his race was compromised from the start,had he started with the softs he would have been in Perez place,calling him mediocre is really funny!!
    Hulkenberg got passed on the last lap by Ricciardo on a Renault engine when they had the same strategy.
    Perez throughout the year so far shows much more fighting spirit than hulkenberg, thats undeniable , so, yes, hulkenberg so far got mediocre performance .

    Quote Originally Posted by Katu View Post
    yes, it's always Kimi who gets bad strategies
    Not really, Fernando lost a WDC due to bad strategy in the past, we are known to make bad calls after Brawn/Tod era.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Lets see.

    2007-2009
    Raikkonen : 1 WDC , 9 wins, 233 points
    Massa: 0 WDC, 9 wins , 213 points


    So no, statistically you're wrong as we can see that Raikkonen clearly beat Massa.
    No, the Lotus were on par with us in terms of performance, not amazing cars as you make them sounds.
    No Kimi doesnt looks like Massa, he doesn't getting beat by a rookie called Bottas , he is getting beat by Fernando Alonso, an 2 WDC which has proven his driving capabilities and talent in the past many many times.
    Let's see.

    Felipe got injured in Hungary with a crash that almost cost his life and he couldn't drive the rest of the 2009 season and still Kimi only scored 20 points more than him so I don't understand what you are trying to tell
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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Horse View Post
    Oh here we go with the "bad strategy for Kimi" talk again lol.
    Well when you get out 7 places behind your teammate after pit stops when you were 2 it surely shows on how well the strategy worked.


    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    Before Hungary 2009, Kimi collected 195 points.
    Irrelevant,i could give you tons of reasons on why Kimi didnt got more ,especially in 2008. The facts are the above i posted so no, Raikkonen never got beaten by Massa.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by fratelliferrari View Post
    Let's see.

    Felipe got injured in Hungary with a crash that almost cost his life and he couldn't drive the rest of the 2009 season and still Kimi only scored 20 points more than him so I don't understand what you are trying to tell
    Hmm, and how exactly you know that Massa would score more points in 2009 with the car we had?
    Only 20 points? 20 points is the gap of 2 wins my friend.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Hmm, and how exactly you know that Massa would score more points in 2009 with the car we had?
    Only 20 points? 20 points is the gap of 2 wins my friend.
    Wow you are a mastermind indeed that are 2 wins! I will never know just as you will never know but Felipe began the 2009 season better than Kimi so why shouldn't he have scored 20 points more during the rest of the season without the injury.
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  9. #249
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    @Katu,@F2008,@Nero Horse,@Fratelliferrari, sorry if I missed others, sometimes there is no point in making a point and arguing about it,cuz certain members will always have TONS of reasons to back their point,so just let it go:)

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by fratelliferrari View Post
    Wow you are a mastermind indeed that are 2 wins! I will never know just as you will never know but Felipe began the 2009 season better than Kimi so why shouldn't he have scored 20 points more during the rest of the season without the injury.
    Kimi started first 10 races in 2013 and was 2nd on WDC till Hungary ,even ahead of Fernando. He had scored 133 points by then and only managed 50more by the end of the season. So having a better season start means nothing.
    In 2009 by Hungary Massa had 22 while Raikkonen had 18 points, then Raikkonen had the best second half of the season bar Hamilton by 1 point.
    So no, again, Massa never beat Raikkonen ,simple as that.

  11. #251
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    Again endless/pointless discussion which present/past Ferrari driver is the best?!?!
    WHO GIVES A SHEET ABOUT IT! Aren't we all here for the greater good called Ferrari?!

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Because simply put Alonso had clear air while Raikkonen was fighting with a pack of 4.
    We should've pitted Kimi sooner than others like we did with Fernando in Spain,especially since the gap between Kimi and Fernando was around 6-7s and the Undercut wouldnt affect Fernanado but it would help Kimi to stay ahead of the pack and make a gap for the second stint.

    The second pit stop didnt matter as Kimi already lost too much time. There is no doubt that the strategy on Kimi was bad.
    Personally I'm not blaming Kimi here for anything, I do think he is struggling this weekend for reasons I do not know of. Not putting the blame on him, but with the current car and this track, somehow this combination did not work for Kimi this weekend.

    What I'm trying to say is, this weekend we've seen Kimi struggling in Friday and Saturday. From FP1 right to qualifying Q3, we saw that Kimi is not comfortable with his car, he had many locks up and stuff like that. All these signs shows that Kimi was headed for a difficult race.

    And indeed he had a difficult race. As I said, I'm not accusing Kimi of anything, but it's unreasonable I think, to expect things to change suddenly for Kimi on race day. Taking the gap between Kimi and Alonso by the end of the race, Kimi is about 0.4sec slower per lap on average. This is similar to what we've seen in free practice and qualifying, he was about 0.3 to 0.5 slower.

    So I don't think we can blame the team for something that is expected to happen, which is that Kimi is struggling this weekend at this track. Hopefully it will be different at a different track later on.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Kimi started first 10 races in 2013 and was 2nd on WDC till Hungary ,even ahead of Fernando. He had scored 133 points by then and only managed 50more by the end of the season. So having a better season start means nothing.
    In 2009 by Hungary Massa had 22 while Raikkonen had 18 points, then Raikkonen had the best second half of the season bar Hamilton by 1 point.
    So no, again, Massa never beat Raikkonen ,simple as that.
    Check the 2008 standings! Felipe beat Kimi there, so never say never, simple as that
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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Again endless/pointless discussion which present/past Ferrari driver is the best?!?!
    WHO GIVES A SHOU ABOUT IT! Arent we all here for the greater good called Ferrari?!
    Im all with you on this and i agree, im just trying to defend our current Ferrari driver which is driving for us and not Williams.
    I have no clue why so many are crying over Massa leaving us to the point of trying to downgrade a great driver that is racing for us.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Lets see.

    2007-2009
    Raikkonen : 1 WDC , 9 wins, 233 points
    Massa: 0 WDC, 9 wins , 213 points


    So no, statistically you're wrong as we can see that Raikkonen clearly beat Massa.
    No, the Lotus were on par with us in terms of performance, not amazing cars as you make them sounds.
    No Kimi doesnt looks like Massa, he doesn't getting beat by a rookie called Bottas , he is getting beat by Fernando Alonso, an 2 WDC which has proven his driving capabilities and talent in the past many many times.
    oh so you are using the races after massa almost got killed in an accident. Classy and desperate you are.

  16. #256
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    Pretty much what we could have expect from the results from FP1 - FP3
    nothing more nothing less ... after first pit stop session it was obvious that also we won't see a surprise today.
    After that really a boring race

    Interesting to compare the lap times of our drivers ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    SV won Monza in a Toro Rosso.
    Designed by Adrian Newey himself
    and Oliver Panis managed to win Monaco with Ligier
    and Johnny Herber won Nuerburgring in Stewart-Ford
    ... so what?

    but well: his performance today, especially when he ruined his front wing (luckily without destroying tire of Guiterrez) was magnific ... absolutly worth for a 4times champion ..
    "If I was driving for Red Bull [from 2008] probably I would have more championships, but because they were dominating between 2010 and 2014 probably I would never have driven for Ferrari. I am very happy and very proud to drive for Ferrari, all my time there.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluto View Post
    oh so you are using the races after massa almost got killed in an accident. Classy and desperate you are.
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  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Personally I'm not blaming Kimi here for anything, I do think he is struggling this weekend for reasons I do not know of. Not putting the blame on him, but with the current car and this track, somehow this combination did not work for Kimi this weekend.

    What I'm trying to say is, this weekend we've seen Kimi struggling in Friday and Saturday. From FP1 right to qualifying Q3, we saw that Kimi is not comfortable with his car, he had many locks up and stuff like that. All these signs shows that Kimi was headed for a difficult race.

    And indeed he had a difficult race. As I said, I'm not accusing Kimi of anything, but it's unreasonable I think, to expect things to change suddenly for Kimi on race day. Taking the gap between Kimi and Alonso by the end of the race, Kimi is about 0.4sec slower per lap on average. This is similar to what we've seen in free practice and qualifying, he was about 0.3 to 0.5 slower.

    So I don't think we can blame the team for something that is expected to happen, which is that Kimi is struggling this weekend at this track. Hopefully it will be different at a different track later on.
    There is no deny that Fernando drove amazingly this weekend and clearly beat Kimi in terms of pace. All im saying that our boys at Maranello for once more time didn't react properly to the situation or dunno what which put Kimi on even worse position as he was on this weekend already as you pointed above.

    Im just pointing out the strategy , not trying to downgrade Kimi's poor performance.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by FA fan View Post
    @Katu,@F2008,@Nero Horse,@Fratelliferrari, sorry if I missed others, sometimes there is no point in making a point and arguing about it,cuz certain members will always have TONS of reasons to back their point,so just let it go:)
    Very true, sometimes you just need to accept that others have the right to have it wrong.

  20. #260
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    Austrian GP – A mountain to climb in the Styrian Alps

    Spielberg, 22 June – Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen finished fifth and tenth respectively in this the eighth round of the Formula 1 World Championship. All four of the cars that finished ahead of the Spaniard in his F14-T were Mercedes-powered, underlining the current superiority of the German power unit. Nico Rosberg took his third win of the season for Mercedes, ahead of team-mate Lewis Hamilton, while Valtteri Bottas secured his first ever F1 podium finish, in third place for Williams. Despite progress made on the F14-T development front, the other teams are not resting on their laurels, hence the lack of change in the pecking order, on a day when the Red Bulls failed to shine at their home track.

    After the start, Fernando who was fourth on the grid, immediately fell victim to Lewis Hamilton, who had charged up the field from ninth on the grid in the Mercedes. As Vettel had a problem in the Red Bull, Kimi was temporarily up one place to seventh. Felipe Massa maintained his lead from pole, while Bottas in the other Williams briefly lost second to Rosberg, only to take it back again on the same lap. By lap 10 of 71, Fernando was having a lonely time in fifth, 5.4 behind Hamilton. Both Ferrari men suffered badly from graining on the Supersoft and their pace improved slightly once they changed to the Softs, Fernando on lap 14 and Kimi on lap 15. In the case, of the Finn, his tyres were very worn by this stage and a slow in-lap dropped him down the field.

    At this point, there was not a lot the two Prancing Horse men could do, even if Fernando showed stunning pace, running laps as fast or faster than the leaders in the final stint, after he and Kimi made their second and final pit stops on laps 47 and 44 respectively. If the general feeling after Saturday’s qualifying was that the two Williams would struggle to maintain their front row status in the race, in actual fact Bottas and Massa had a strong pace and the Mercedes duo had to work hard to re-establish their superiority. In the closing stages, Hamilton looked as though he might threaten his team-mate, but Rosberg held him off to the flag.

    Mercedes is now on an impressive 301 points, over twice as many as second placed Red Bull in the Constructors’ classification, in which the Scuderia is third. In the Drivers’ Rosberg and Hamilton look similarly dominant, while the battle for third is closer, with Fernando on 79 points closing the gap to Daniel Ricciardo on 83. From a track with fast straights and medium speed corners, the championship now moves to the very different challenge that is Silverstone, where, with just one long straight, but plenty of high speed corners, the teams will face a very different challenge in the British GP.


    See more at: http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/aus....b1LdgrK7.dpuf
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  21. #261
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    Come on, atleast admit that they could for once pit Kimi first during first stint and Alonso second and see how that affects their races. Kimi had to drive one full lap on the supersofts after they had gone "over the cliff", lost several seconds and ended behind some slower cars. And as you know, passing on this track is hard if your powerunit doesn't have a Mercedes label on it or the other guys tyres aren't shot.

    At best he could have finished P8, he was struggling, but it doesn't help that the team seems unable to come up with solid strategies for both drivers.

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by fratelliferrari View Post
    Check the 2008 standings! Felipe beat Kimi there, so never say never, simple as that
    So now you're comparing the year you want to compare,while im providing you hard cold facts of their whole career as teammates.
    2007 and 2009 Kimi beat Felipe and thats a fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by pluto View Post
    oh so you are using the races after massa almost got killed in an accident. Classy and desperate you are.
    Tough luck , thats racing ?
    Why it is Raikkonen to blame for that and why by default it is assumed that Felipe would beat Kimi on a bad car? We saw how Felipe drives on a mediocre car many times before.
    Felipe's last win was Brazilian GP in 2008 on the fastest or second fastest car that year.he had plenty of times to prove how good he is on a bad/mediocre car but he didnt.

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Im all with you on this and i agree, im just trying to defend our current Ferrari driver which is driving for us and not Williams.
    I have no clue why so many are crying over Massa leaving us to the point of trying to downgrade a great driver that is racing for us.

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by FA fan View Post
    @Katu,@F2008,@Nero Horse,@Fratelliferrari, sorry if I missed others, sometimes there is no point in making a point and arguing about it,cuz certain members will always have TONS of reasons to back their point,so just let it go:)
    don't worry, i just enjoy some people trying to find excuses after excuses after excuses. fun anyway
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  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Horse View Post
    Really? Do you have a crystal ball with which you can predict the future?
    You can go back and read, many did not think Kimi would be any better than Massa so not sure why I need a crystal ball.
    Forza Ferrari

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    however i need to say one thing more - Kimi also has a say when he feels like his tyres are done and he needs to pit. he didn't make that call, then too bad for him. as i recall he did pit second time long before Fernando did (of course i slept for 40% of the race...)
    not gonna change my profile picture

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    Gotta love how quick people are coming in to put Raikkonen on fire after this race, despite the fact of a bad strategy that ruined the majority of his race.
    It's not just THIS race though, is it. Forget Massa as he does not matter any more and we can't really defend Kimi being crap by saying others would be just as crap.
    Forza Ferrari

  28. #268
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    now we can start testing for 2015, and make our **** PU better for next season. There are no excuses for next season. Marmorini do your job

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  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    So now you're comparing the year you want to compare,while im providing you hard cold facts of their whole career as teammates.
    2007 and 2009 Kimi beat Felipe and thats a fact.



    Tough luck , thats racing ?
    Why it is Raikkonen to blame for that and why by default it is assumed that Felipe would beat Kimi on a bad car? We saw how Felipe drives on a mediocre car many times before.
    Felipe's last win was Brazilian GP in 2008 on the fastest or second fastest car that year.he had plenty of times to prove how good he is on a bad/mediocre car but he didnt.
    I don't do that at all You are comparing Felipe and Kimi in 3 seasons where Felipe only drove 2,5 seasons so that's not a comparison, at least that's what they have told me at school!
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  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Horse View Post
    Ok then, you obviously know better which driver is the best choice than all the people working at Ferrari.
    Do you think they had a staff vote at Maranello on who to sign? No it would be 1 or 2 people making that decision and like you or me they have an opinion, Stefano wanted Kimi based on his opinion not based on any secret information that only a Ferrari employee has.
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